Well thank you for proving my point. You are a fanboy and we all know it, we all see it, and if your defense above is the best you can think of then it's evident especially since you don't bother to answer a simple question. But you give us a life story because SXR told you to get a life in reply to you spreading your "don't overclock, it voids warranties" gospel to quote Jiffy. So don't lextur eme aobut going off topic. We appreciate the information you give us, Rollo, but we see which company is really in your favor and you fail to address any of their issues. And we both know both cards have enough issues. And don't think people are idiots and can't see that. How about just providing the link to what the problem is and leaving it at that, we can all do without your one-sider bashing. So until you are actually Fair and Ballanced in your information that you provide, I would take that part out of your sig.
Well thank you for proving my point. You are a fanboy and we all know it, we all see it, and if your defense above is the best you can think of then it's evident especially since you don't bother to answer a simple question. But you give us a life story because SXR told you to get a life in reply to you spreading your "don't overclock, it voids warranties" gospel to quote Jiffy. So don't lextur eme aobut going off topic. We appreciate the information you give us, Rollo, but we see which company is really in your favor and you fail to address any of their issues. And we both know both cards have enough issues. And don't think people are idiots and can't see that. How about just providing the link to what the problem is and leaving it at that, we can all do without your one-sider bashing. So until you are actually Fair and Ballanced in your information that you provide, I would take that part out of your sig.
This thread should be locked IMO. Everyone's just spamming and flaming Rollo. Has nothing to do with Vertex Texturing.
Lets just have Rollo post a new thread with benches when he gets the game. So far this thread isnt going anywhere.
If he simply took out "fair and balanced" along with his dreams of becoming a video mod out of his sig, people would have no reason to call him out, since he'd just be another fanboy.
And excuse me for going off on you, but don't tell me I'm not the tiniest bit justified for doing so.
GI is meant to increase performance by reducing (driver?) overhead. VTF potentially reduces performance b/c it introduces more complexity (geometry) to the scene. I say potentially b/c the idea behind VTF, at least according to NV, is to take advantage of unused VS cycles when a game is bound by PS or other performance. But, IIRC, using VTF in PF reduces performance.
I didn't. I know you know VTF is a SM3 feature, but Xbit pretty clearly said the ATI cards were running SM2 mode. So how did we arrive at your thread title?
It runs slower, but not all benchmarks I've seen show it running like ass. It keeps up fairly well without AA+AF (mostly w/o AF, from R3D's benches), but bombs with AA+AF. I'm not even sure it uses GI. The terrible AA+AF performance is noteworthy, yes, but the issue seems to be ATI's typically poor OGL performance, not missing SM3 features. The fact that AA &/ AF cause the biggest drops might mean some "legit" memory controller tweaking can fix things.
Eh, hyperbole aside, maybe. But you've yet to apologize or otherwise acknowledge that you're technically wrong, which is what I'm after. I guess we have to wait for Xbit to reply to you.
Nit-picking again, but did they?
Anyway, just to end on a constructive note, there're some new .dlls out from the Maddox crew that makes water look better with ATI cards. The interesting thing is that ATI still can't run the two highest water IQ levels b/c they lack texture pre-fetch. I'm not sure if that's another term for VTF, a separate (PS) feature, or simply the mod misspeaking (b/c the NV pdf below makes it pretty clear it's using VTF: "They combine multiple dynamic normal maps to calculate the appropriate geometric displacement at each vertex.").
It'd be nice if we could see some comparison screenshots for both ATI and NV on all levels.
BTW, NV's Vertex_Textures.pdf says that "DirectX 9 also supports vertex textures in software vertex processing mode, so an application could use vertex textures even on hardware without native vertex texture support." I wonder if ATI could get this PF water effect to work with their dual-core-optimized drivers, or if NV can speed things up with theirs.
8,000+ posts means nothing if they're all filled with crap like that, Rollo. You redefine the term "post whore."
And "ambulance chaser."
And "ambulance chaser."
5150Joker
Diamond Member
Has anyone here even played Pacific Fighters? The game sucks. Who gives a rats ass about some crappy game that outright supports the features of a specific vid. manufacturer? I don't.
5150Joker
Diamond Member
I don't know about that. Go to the hardcore OC sites and they all love using 3DMark05 for e-penis competitions. 3DMark05 gets a lot more use and is far more important than this crappy game.
BFG10K
Lifer
- Aug 14, 2000
- 22,709
- 3,002
- 126
Hardly. None of those guys actively start troll topics to bash nVidia, they simply debunk anti-ATi troll threads.
I'm glad you saw that as well Pete. Assuming nVidia propaganda isn't at work (i.e. those are DX7 images on the ATi card) there is something seriously wrong with Pacific Fighters' fallback shaders. Fear's water looks incredible on my X800 XL including real displacement on the waves.
LOL, I feel special. I've only started one topic on these forums (about X1800 OC edition, not bashing NVIDIA) and I'm being called ATi's Rollo :laugh:.
Thanks for the laugh
EDIT: LOL, doesn't Ackmed have a 7800GTX?
I don't know what else to make of you. You admit to reading my old posts, have several quoted in your sig, and have sent me 5-6 PMs in the last couple days.
You either want me to stop posting the bad news for ATI, or bake me some cookies from what I can tell. :laugh:
BTW this weird flamefest really should be locked. It's an old post that served it's purpose then.
When the Pacific Fighters arrives, I'll bench it in SM2, SM3, SM3 with VTF enabled if such things are possible, perhaps this will shed some light on the whole VTF subject.
5150- if you've got PF, how about some benches to end this madness.
Pete- I may well be wrong about the SM2 version of PF. I just want to investigate further.
When the Pacific Fighters arrives, I'll bench it in SM2, SM3, SM3 with VTF enabled if such things are possible, perhaps this will shed some light on the whole VTF subject.
5150- if you've got PF, how about some benches to end this madness.
Pete- I may well be wrong about the SM2 version of PF. I just want to investigate further.
I'm not sure if there're explicit SM modes. I think you'll just end up benchmarking water effects levels 0 thru 4 (probably with all other effects maxed). Maybe try the new .dll I linked above, too, but only after you've benched the fully patched game.
Sigh. No, for the last f'n time, there are no shader profiles in Pacific Fighters.
I don't have a 7800 or I'd gladly run some benchmarks since I have the game fully patched sitting on my hard drive.
I don't have a 7800 or I'd gladly run some benchmarks since I have the game fully patched sitting on my hard drive.
Set "water=3", that should enable VTF.
FPS went into the single digits on the 6800GT i had then.
FPS went into the single digits on the 6800GT i had then.
I'm sure I saw PF + VTF performance figures somewhere, but that was months ago and I can't find anything but a reference to someone having seen them in B3D. In another thread, John mentioned they cut you down to 5-15fps, but that may not have been with a 7800.
FYI, Xbit just benched the S3 Chrome S27 ("only" SM2+), and it does damn well in PF, competing with NV. ATI's still left in the dust.
(BTW, check out how well the S27 does in Riddick, and how poorly it fares in D3--weird but promising.)
FYI, Xbit just benched the S3 Chrome S27 ("only" SM2+), and it does damn well in PF, competing with NV. ATI's still left in the dust.
(BTW, check out how well the S27 does in Riddick, and how poorly it fares in D3--weird but promising.)
My #s were on a 6800 GT and the performance was, if memory serves, around 15-17/18 fps. Older drivers (last year) and I tend to configure the mid- and high-end boards with high quality settings, so factor that in too.
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