Vertex texture fetch and the R520

[nRollo]

Check it out:

http://www.ati.com/developer/gdc/D3DTutorial01_3_0_Shaders.pdf

I guess their opinion of SM3 "done right" and texture lookups has changed in the interim? It will be interesting to see how this plays out, if devs will code for R520s lacking this feature or not.

 

[xtknight]

If I'm right NVIDIA doesn't have this feature enabled in its current drivers either. Not sure if it is widely needed or even applicable at this point... but "done right" is indeed BS.

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: xtknight
If I'm right NVIDIA doesn't have this feature enabled in its current drivers either. Not sure if it is widely needed or even applicable at this point... but "done right" is indeed BS.

I think "done right" is a matter of perspective, timing, and what the developers choose to use.

I do agree with you to imply only ATIs SM3 is "done right" is PR doubletalk. As you can tell by my link, they've obviously changed course on it, and their SM3 wasn't "done at all" until a day or two ago.

nVidia has been doing SM3 for well over a year, and the work they did will result in us having displacement mapping and more SM3 games this year and next.

If devlopers had only ATIs "done right" SM3 to rely upon, there would be no SM3 games until sometime in 2007. The X1800XT looks like a good SM3 card so far, but when you're playing U3 and UT2007 on it next year and marvelling at the graphics, try to remember they wouldn't exist without the nV40 and SLI and not post "Haha- my X1800XT ownz joo all!"

BTW- I'm not posting my opinion about U3 and UT2007, I'm quoting Tim Sweeneys speech last June at the G70 launch. If the guy making U3 credits SLI and the nV40, I don't think anyone can disagree.

 

[bunnyfubbles]

Originally posted by: Rollo
If devlopers had only ATIs "done right" SM3 to rely upon, there would be no SM3 games until sometime in 2007. The X1800XT looks like a good SM3 card so far, but when you're playing U3 and UT2007 on it next year and marvelling at the graphics, try to remember they wouldn't exist without the nV40 and SLI and not post "Haha- my X1800XT ownz joo all!"

In that light, every time you use AA/AF be thankful ATI pioneered practical use of such features.

Both companies have done great things for PC gaming (and now console gaming), it isn't all one-sided.

 

[Megatomic]

Rollo, from this thread it seems like you believe that ATI is the only company not delivering on what they promise. Need I remind you and everyone else of the wonderful implementation of PVP on AGP flavors of the 6800 family of cards?

Sometimes things just don't work out the way the PR dept. would like them to.

 

[CrystalBay]

Yes, there is a lot of wading through PRBS when it comes to Green vs Red

 

[Pete]

I'm sure that without nV we'd all be playing SM2 games on our Xbox 360s and Playstation 3s in 2006. It's also been interesting to see only one game feature DM, despite nV's support of it since NV40.

Rollo, would I be right in think that you didn't find that pdf yourself? Or that you hadn't read this thread concerning ATI's potential(ly black box) workaround to support VT on R520, and better than on G70?

It's great to call these companies out on their BS PR, but you seem to create a new thread for every single thing ATI has slipped up on, no matter how minor. I'm sure you could've kept this in one of the other threads dealing with this issue specifically, or R520 in general.

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: bunnyfubbles
Both companies have done great things for PC gaming (and now console gaming), it isn't all one-sided.

I never said it was?

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: Megatomic
Rollo, from this thread it seems like you believe that ATI is the only company not delivering on what they promise. Need I remind you and everyone else of the wonderful implementation of PVP on AGP flavors of the 6800 family of cards?

Sometimes things just don't work out the way the PR dept. would like them to.

It may "seem" to you that I believe that, but I don't, so you're wrong.

 

[jiffylube1024]

Bad ATI, bad!

There, feel better Rollo? Maybe starting another thread about ATI taking a performance hit with their high-quality AF will make you feel better? Actually, you should start one about the pending litigation against ATI because's it's such a big issue.

This is a joke, I don't even feel like reading Video anymore because of dumb-ass sarcastic threads like this.

 

[Megatomic]

Well, why didn't you have this sort of reaction when the whole PVP thing was going down then? Your tone was concilliatory regarding that issue... Matter of fact, there was a concerted effort at the time (more than just you, I'm not singling you out on this) to kill the thread and bury the issue.

edit for gramir and speeeling

 

[johnnqq]

damn rollo...you never miss the chance to bash ati. you say that even if the xt's sm3 is superior to that of the 7800's it's because NVIDIA IS THE BEST COMPANY EVERRRR AND THEY HAD IT FIRST SO THEREFORE ATI STILL SUCKS! i used to respect you...but i realized that you are a fanboy

 

[5150Joker]

Well SM4 will be using R2VB so really it's not that big of a deal. Hardly anyone utilizes nVidia's vertex texture fetch either since it's so slow. Technically both R520 and G70 meet SM 3.0 specifications so both are "done right". I think what is more interesting is that so far a few people have purchased X1800XL's today and none of the cores are the failed 13F soft ground ones which is good news for OC'ers. Samsa got his X1800XL to ~700 mhz so things are looking up for these cards - they will definitely wipe the floor with a 7800 GT in D3D when both cards are OC'd.

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: johnnqq
damn rollo...you never miss the chance to bash ati. you say that even if the xt's sm3 is superior to that of the 7800's it's because NVIDIA IS THE BEST COMPANY EVERRRR AND THEY HAD IT FIRST SO THEREFORE ATI STILL SUCKS! i used to respect you...but i realized that you are a fanboy

I respect people who quote me accurately and don't make inferences about my motives which are irrelevant to the topic?

 

[nRollo]

It's interesting how I have two threads up where ATI has said one thing and then done another entirely and the usual suspects are trying to deflect attention from it by attacking the messenger?

I don't know about you guys, but I want to see any contradicition in the information we are given, no matter who the giver is?

Or should I just bury this stuff because if ATI said one thing one day, and then did entirely another, they must have had a good reason to do so and we should all just assume so?

This is just like the PVP issue IMO. Back in March ATI said a SM3 part needed to have texture lookups, now they say their SM3 is "done right", and they don't have texture lookups.

It was an expected feature that never made it to silicon, and I'm not going to bury my findings just because they might embarass ATI.

 

[Cooler]

Rollo until we see some hard benchmarks to prove theis even matters there is no use talking about it. It is like talking about Bigfoot. This is also not part of MS 3.0 shader standard so if they do it differently it does not mean that it is not 3.0. Please Don?t go after ATI on this. The only thing you could go after r520 and its family is just being a little late. You don?t see people going after 7800 because it dose not have a rig memory config like ATI new cards. This fourm needs to go back to OC and video card modding like it used to be an not these ATI vs Nvida threads it just brings the whole fourm down.

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: Cooler
Rollo until we see some hard benchmarks to prove theis even matters there is no use talking about it. It is like talking about Bigfoot. This is also not part of MS 3.0 shader standard so if they do it differently it does not mean that it is not 3.0. Please Don?t go after ATI on this. The only thing you could go after r520 and its family is just being a little late. You don?t see people going after 7800 because it dose not have a rig memory config like ATI new cards. This fourm needs to go back to OC and video card modding like it used to be an not these ATI vs Nvida threads it just brings the whole fourm down.

Interesting.

Although I can link you to posts of video card OEMs stating in no uncertain terms that OCing and modding damages cards and voids warranties, as well as numerous posts of people who destroyed their cards OCing, you think it would be a better use of the forum to discuss these activities that leave so many of us with the unfortunate choice of being out $100s or committing warranty fraud.

 

[Cooler]

Yes thats more productive then what is currently going on,

 

[sxr7171]

Originally posted by: Rollo

Originally posted by: Cooler
Rollo until we see some hard benchmarks to prove theis even matters there is no use talking about it. It is like talking about Bigfoot. This is also not part of MS 3.0 shader standard so if they do it differently it does not mean that it is not 3.0. Please Don?t go after ATI on this. The only thing you could go after r520 and its family is just being a little late. You don?t see people going after 7800 because it dose not have a rig memory config like ATI new cards. This fourm needs to go back to OC and video card modding like it used to be an not these ATI vs Nvida threads it just brings the whole fourm down.

Interesting.

Although I can link you to posts of video card OEMs stating in no uncertain terms that OCing and modding damages cards and voids warranties, as well as numerous posts of people who destroyed their cards OCing, you think it would be a better use of the forum to discuss these activities that leave so many of us with the unfortunate choice of being out $100s or committing warranty fraud.

Get a life. What people do with their video cards is their own business.

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: Cooler
Yes thats more productive then what is currently going on,

Really?

So if some games were to come out that use texture lookups and they didn't have a workaround for the R520, it would be more useful to know how to volt mod your vid card and fry it than use it within warranty spec and know about the limitation?

Let's say this WERE true- why do you think your definition of what's useful is the one we should use? I likely post more than you, and likely buy more vid cards, but I don't OC.
Your mods wouldn't be useful to me?

Beyond that, why can't we have posts like this, and posts like that? Is there some rule I'm unaware of that states you can't post your modding posts if I post my info posts?

I don't understand your position, unless you're just stating you don't like posts which discuss the feature sets of video cards, which you should really expect to see in a forum about video cards?

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: sxr7171
Get a life. What people do with their video cards is their own business.

I've completed college twice, have a stable IT career, a wife/child/friends/home, and several hobbies. This is called "having a life".

I also have an opinion about warranty fraud, and you telling me to "get a life" has done little to change the opinion I've based on the morality and ethics of misusing warranties to pay for your own experiments.

Also, if "their business" involves telling Leadtek "Honest, I wasn't running my 7800GTX at 550/1350 with a voltmod and Arctic, it just died!" their business is my business as it costs me more money next time I buy one.

But we're getting a bit OT, don't you think?

 

[crazydingo]

Originally posted by: Rollo

Originally posted by: sxr7171
Get a life. What people do with their video cards is their own business.

I've completed college twice, have a stable IT career, a wife/child/friends/home, and several hobbies. This is called "having a life".

Most of us have such a great life, maybe better or worse than yours. But we dont go around forums blinding bashing one company and blindy supporting another 24/7.

I've seen people who exhibiting such behaviour in car forums, where people usually have invested $40k+ in one brand but for videocards .. argh

*EDIT* There is already a thread on this topic.

 

[Corporate Thug]

another thread started by Rollo that turned out to be a flame war? I DONT BELIEVE IT!

 

[jiffylube1024]

Originally posted by: Rollo

Originally posted by: sxr7171
Get a life. What people do with their video cards is their own business.

I've completed college twice, have a stable IT career, a wife/child/friends/home, and several hobbies. This is called "having a life".

Everything is about you Rollo, and the sad part is nobody cares. Quit trying to make yourself sound:

a.) more sucessful than everyone else
b.) more important than everyone else
c.) 'holier than thou' (Overclocking voids warrantees - thanks we all know that, and most of us act accordingly. Go to the CPU forum and spread your "don't overclock, it voids warranties" gospel and see how far it gets you!"


Let's get back on topic. Your point is proven Rollo: ATI doesn''t have texture fetch so therefore it's not technically 100% SM 3.0 copliant. You established that with your first post. What are all of your other posts for?

 

[Corporate Thug]

Originally posted by: Rollo

Originally posted by: Cooler
Rollo until we see some hard benchmarks to prove theis even matters there is no use talking about it. It is like talking about Bigfoot. This is also not part of MS 3.0 shader standard so if they do it differently it does not mean that it is not 3.0. Please Don?t go after ATI on this. The only thing you could go after r520 and its family is just being a little late. You don?t see people going after 7800 because it dose not have a rig memory config like ATI new cards. This fourm needs to go back to OC and video card modding like it used to be an not these ATI vs Nvida threads it just brings the whole fourm down.

Interesting.

Although I can link you to posts of video card OEMs stating in no uncertain terms that OCing and modding damages cards and voids warranties, as well as numerous posts of people who destroyed their cards OCing, you think it would be a better use of the forum to discuss these activities that leave so many of us with the unfortunate choice of being out $100s or committing warranty fraud.

umm, this isnt entirely true

overclocking doesnt void the eVga warrenty so long as there is no phyiscal damage

http://www.overclock.net/archive/index.php/t-40144.html


and some people would rather engage in these activities and disregard the warrenty. more power to them