Venice 3200 and DFI ULTRA-D O/C problem??

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myocardia

Diamond Member
Jun 21, 2003
9,291
30
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Originally posted by: palouse
You need to read up on the CMOS clearing procedure to ensure you do not break anything, or reassemble to cause a problem.

The DFI-street site recommended removing the btty and plug for 10 minutes, but that is not found in the Ultra-D manual. Using the shorting plug for 60 seconds, and removing the btty worked for me, but I used the "10 minute method" too.
That's really not necessary with a DFI board; just enable the setting to recover from a borked overclock attempt. Unfortunately, I can't remember what it's called. It's directly under the section that takes you to the vcore and vdimm, etc.

Run MemTest 1.51 (embedded function of motherboard BIOS), using test 5 or 6 overnight, with all 4 modules installed as they are, default BIOS settings. If it passes, run it a second night using the general, "all tests" setting. If it passes, good to go, you're done. If any test fails, try to isolate by using Memtest on each module individually; remove the other three. You must put the single module in one particular slot, I don't rember which. [/quote]
It's test #5 and/or test #8, although I've found that it will fail #5 before #8, usually. And the slot to put a single stick of RAM into is always the slot closest to the processor, slot #1.
 

palouse

Member
Sep 28, 2004
90
0
0
Originally posted by: myocardia

palouse, everything you said in your post is true, except this part. You can make changes to the BIOS anytime you want, without doing anything except saving the changes. You just misunderstood what they were saying. With this board, even moreso than with other brands, it is definitely a must to "load BIOS defaults" after updating the BIOS. But, if you only want to change a setting, any setting, you only need to save the changes.
myocardia,
Actually, I meant what I wrote. BIOS corruption. The effect of many small BIOS changes is not immediately obvious. During OC workup, I would tweak and test BIOS settings 20 or 30 times over the course of a session. No CMOS reset between tests or sessions. I started getting screwy results, previously working saved settings, when reverted to, did not work. The DFI-street moderator, angry_games, (his ownself) was the poster that mentioned the issue. Recognition of the issue, no explanation, just a solution: clearing the CMOS. It worked for me several times while facing frustration similar to what our OP is going through. Your "load BIOS defaults" is also true.

I did write too stong, saying to clear CMOS "every" time. When you see issues, if you are getting near your final BIOS tweaks and tests, or before final deployment, you should certainly clear CMOS, reload saved settings. Coarse or initial OC changes don't need the time sink of CMOS changes every time.

Originally posted by: myocardiaThat's really not necessary with a DFI board; just enable the setting to recover from a borked overclock attempt. Unfortunately, I can't remember what it's called. It's directly under the section that takes you to the vcore and vdimm, etc.
Again, it doesn't make much sense, flies in the face of logic and owners guide, but other's experiences say otherwise. I wrote it off to capacitance issues.


 

DPOverLord

Golden Member
Dec 20, 1999
1,980
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Ok here is the update as to what I have done at my apt up until this morning.

I set the settings back down to take the other components out of the picture. Multi =7 LDT = 2.5x, as I did before. I set my CPU VID startup Value to ?Startup? However I was not sure what CPU VID Control and Special Control should be so I set those to ?Auto?

I then set my mem timings to two different settings. The first setting was:
DRAM = 200 (1to1)
CPC - OFF
TCL 2
TRCD 3
TRAS 8
TRP 3
TRC 15
TRFC 18
TRRD 03
TWR 03
TWTR 02
TRWT 03
TREF 0780
TWCL Auto

Dram Bank Enable
DQS Skew Control AUto
DQS Skew Value 0
DRAM Drive Strength Level 4
Dram Data Drive Level 3 ( There was no level listed higher than 3)


When I set it to this I set my FSB to 215. I then ran Memtest over night (11p.m until 7:30 a.m.) I came back to there being no errors.

I then changed my settings to FSB 230 and and it gave errors quit quickly ( I was just curious)

So I then changes the settings to FSB 220

And I changed TRC to 10,
TRFC to 16
TWR to 2
TREF to 3120
Then I believe I raised the DRAM Drive strength to 5 or 6.

I got these values from:
http://www.bleedinedgesupport.com/ocz/forum/showthread.php?p=211042#post211042
Summary: Ryder from OCZ tech support gave these settings:

Try this:

In Genie Bios
200
auto
16 16
auto
100
disable
Startup
Auto
auto
1.20v
1.50v
2.8V - 2.9V

Dram Config
200
Disabled
2.0
03
08
03
10
16
03
02
02
03 (or 04)
3120
auto (this option is not in the 704-2BT)
enabled
auto
0
Level 6,7, or 8
level 2
8ns
normal
6ns
256
disable
16
04
disable

2 sticks is always easier to run at higher speeds and easier to OC.

When I get back @ 5pm I will know how those settings worked out. I think I confused myself here or am gettingtoo ahead of myself. Since, the reason I changed the timings originally was so that my ram would not be an issue and would be functioning properly. With that being said How do I know which of these ram settings are correct? Should I just use the right ones from here then go back to the O/C of the cpu then after I find my MAX cpu speed find the MAX Ram speed? I assume that?s the route I am going.


Next questions,
I will go to the DFI site and see how they clear the CMOS so I can discount the problems. I saw the CMOS chip on the mobo last night ( it had a yellow plastic container holding it). However, I could not pull it out so I will have to go read the site since I did not understand your reference of:
removing the btty and plug for 10 minutes, but that is not found in the Ultra-D manual. Using the shorting plug for 60 seconds, and removing the btty worked for me, but I used the "10 minute method" too.
My other question is that you write,
[q With this board, even moreso than with other brands, it is definitely a must to "load BIOS defaults" after updating the BIOS. But, if you only want to change a setting, any setting, you only need to save the changes.[/quote]
This is only if I flash the bios correct? With these settings I am changing I saved them to a Bank slot on the mobo so if I flash I am assuming I would not lose the data.


your RAM timings at whatever they are supposed to be. What did you say they were supposed to be? 2.5-3-3-7, right? Okay, then change your RAM frequency to 200 Mhz, and change your CPC to either 2T or Off, depending on the BIOS version you have (off is 2T in some versions), and disabling Bank Interleave, as palouse said. Now, change your vdimm to 2.80v, and enable MemTest in the BIOS (at the bottom of the same screen that you adjust the vdimm). Remember, this is AFTER changing every single thing in your BIOS that has already been recommended by me about 5 or 6 posts above.


What does 2.5-3-3-7 correspond to? I know the 7 refers Dram Bank strength right? I just want to make sure I am on the same page. With what you said would I just be changing those values from what we set before??? Other than that I got it. Sorry for the long post I REALLY appreciate ALL of your Help.
 

palouse

Member
Sep 28, 2004
90
0
0
Originally posted by: DPOverLord
Ok here is the update as to what I have done at my apt up until this morning.

I set the settings back down to take the other components out of the picture. Multi =7 LDT = 2.5x, as I did before. I set my CPU VID startup Value to ?Startup? However I was not sure what CPU VID Control and Special Control should be so I set those to ?Auto?

I then set my mem timings to two different settings. The first setting was:
DRAM = 200 (1to1)
CPC - OFF
TCL 2
TRCD 3
TRAS 8
TRP 3
TRC 15
TRFC 18 ...

Ok. You exectued two things. First, you generally proved your RAM is good at stock settings. Second, you generally executed the "maximum RAM OC" test, one third of the process in Zebo's Overclocking Guide. Your RAM practically OCs to about 215 FSB, with the CAS and voltage-to-RAM you selected. My system settings are similar, and RAM would only do 210. It seems about right compared to other value RAM references I have seen. Basically, "215 max" means that you will have to use a memory divider to keep RAM running at FSB215 or less, while CPU runs at full FSB, whatever that may be for the final system OC.

Now, complete the other two thirds of Zebo's process to find out what you can expect for an overall system OC. Find the max OC of the motherboard, and then max OC of the CPU.

Quick and dirty A64 clocking guide
 

DPOverLord

Golden Member
Dec 20, 1999
1,980
1
86
Ok, I when I get home I will go ahead and do that. Since the values I came up with before were incorrect due to my settings be off right?
 

myocardia

Diamond Member
Jun 21, 2003
9,291
30
91
Originally posted by: palouse
Originally posted by: myocardia

palouse, everything you said in your post is true, except this part. You can make changes to the BIOS anytime you want, without doing anything except saving the changes. You just misunderstood what they were saying. With this board, even moreso than with other brands, it is definitely a must to "load BIOS defaults" after updating the BIOS. But, if you only want to change a setting, any setting, you only need to save the changes.
myocardia,
Actually, I meant what I wrote. BIOS corruption. The effect of many small BIOS changes is not immediately obvious. During OC workup, I would tweak and test BIOS settings 20 or 30 times over the course of a session. No CMOS reset between tests or sessions. I started getting screwy results, previously working saved settings, when reverted to, did not work. The DFI-street moderator, angry_games, (his ownself) was the poster that mentioned the issue. Recognition of the issue, no explanation, just a solution: clearing the CMOS. It worked for me several times while facing frustration similar to what our OP is going through. Your "load BIOS defaults" is also true.

I did write too stong, saying to clear CMOS "every" time. When you see issues, if you are getting near your final BIOS tweaks and tests, or before final deployment, you should certainly clear CMOS, reload saved settings. Coarse or initial OC changes don't need the time sink of CMOS changes every time.
Well, when you said clear your CMOS every time you make a change to the BIOS, you threw me. Yes, for instance, if you've made a change that will let you POST, but is far from stable, it's always a good idea to reset your BIOS/CMOS. I agree. Just not with every change to the BIOS.;)


 

DPOverLord

Golden Member
Dec 20, 1999
1,980
1
86
After testing again it seems that the highest I am getting on the Dram is between 215 to 220. I am not sure what I can tweak to get it more stable @ 220. At the moment I am running a LDT multi @ 3x and the CPU multi @ 10, and FSB @ 220. No problems as of yet. My cpu temp is @ 48 at a full load with no problems atm. I will try to test a higher max cpu in the morning after this runs.
 

myocardia

Diamond Member
Jun 21, 2003
9,291
30
91
Originally posted by: DPOverLord
I set the settings back down to take the other components out of the picture. Multi =7 LDT = 2.5x, as I did before. I set my CPU VID startup Value to ?Startup? However I was not sure what CPU VID Control and Special Control should be so I set those to ?Auto?

I then set my mem timings to two different settings. The first setting was:
DRAM = 200 (1to1)
CPC - OFF
TCL 2
TRCD 3
TRAS 8
TRP 3
TRC 15
TRFC 18
TRRD 03
TWR 03
TWTR 02
TRWT 03
TREF 0780
TWCL Auto

Dram Bank Enable
DQS Skew Control AUto
DQS Skew Value 0
DRAM Drive Strength Level 4
Dram Data Drive Level 3 ( There was no level listed higher than 3)


When I set it to this I set my FSB to 215. I then ran Memtest over night (11p.m until 7:30 a.m.) I came back to there being no errors.

I then changed my settings to FSB 230 and and it gave errors quit quickly ( I was just curious)

So I then changes the settings to FSB 220

And I changed TRC to 10,
TRFC to 16
TWR to 2
TREF to 3120
Then I believe I raised the DRAM Drive strength to 5 or 6.

I got these values from:
http://www.bleedinedgesupport.com/ocz/forum/showthread.php?p=211042#post211042
Summary: Ryder from OCZ tech support gave these settings:

Try this:

In Genie Bios
200
auto
16 16
auto
100
disable
Startup
Auto
auto
1.20v
1.50v
2.8V - 2.9V

Dram Config
200
Disabled
2.0
03
08
03
10
16
03
02
02
03 (or 04)
3120
auto (this option is not in the 704-2BT)
enabled
auto
0
Level 6,7, or 8
level 2
8ns
normal
6ns
256
disable
16
04
disable

2 sticks is always easier to run at higher speeds and easier to OC.

When I get back @ 5pm I will know how those settings worked out. I think I confused myself here or am gettingtoo ahead of myself. Since, the reason I changed the timings originally was so that my ram would not be an issue and would be functioning properly. With that being said How do I know which of these ram settings are correct? Should I just use the right ones from here then go back to the O/C of the cpu then after I find my MAX cpu speed find the MAX Ram speed? I assume that?s the route I am going.


Next questions,
I will go to the DFI site and see how they clear the CMOS so I can discount the problems. I saw the CMOS chip on the mobo last night ( it had a yellow plastic container holding it). However, I could not pull it out so I will have to go read the site since I did not understand your reference of:
removing the btty and plug for 10 minutes, but that is not found in the Ultra-D manual. Using the shorting plug for 60 seconds, and removing the btty worked for me, but I used the "10 minute method" too.
My other question is that you write,
With this board, even moreso than with other brands, it is definitely a must to "load BIOS defaults" after updating the BIOS. But, if you only want to change a setting, any setting, you only need to save the changes.
This is only if I flash the bios correct? With these settings I am changing I saved them to a Bank slot on the mobo so if I flash I am assuming I would not lose the data.
You're skipping steps, and skipping around in the steps you're taking. Overclocking a processor is about a week long process, the first time. That's why it is done in steps. If it isn't worth that much time to you, fine, just go out and buy the most expensive processor available, and run it at the speed you paid for. If that sounds blunt or obtuse, it was supposed to sound both blund and obtuse.[/rant] <<--that means "end rant"

Now, if you're wanting to overclock your processor, it's going to take some time, and probably won't be easy, since you don't yet know what you're doing yet. Those of us who've been overclocking since the mid 80's or early 90's skip some steps, especially when re-using proven parts, that we already know will run @ a certain Mhz, from time to time. You haven't yet earned have that luxury. You're going to have to go by Zebo's overclocking guide step-by-step, until you have your oveclock figured out. You'll also need to use not only MemTest, but also SP2004 a considerable amount. But, the most important portion to a successful overclock is not to skip any steps.

So, the first step to overclocking is raising all of your voltages to an acceptable level, NOT AUTO. If you're expecting to come anywhere near 2.6-2.7 Ghz with your processor, it won't be doing it with less vcore than it's meant to run at stock speeds with (like you have it now), and your motherboard most likely won't be hitting 260 Mhz or above with 1.20 volts, either. If you're gonna test for your motherboard's maximum HTT speed, I'd recommend 1.70v of chipset voltage, and 1.40 on LDT Voltage Control. You're also likely gonna need to use 1.525-1.55v of vcore (in the BIOS, it will be considerably lower, in reality).

One last thing, you have OCZ VX Value RAM, dude. Write that down somewhere. Anytime anyone ever asks you what RAM you have, you say "OCZ VX Value RAM", not OCZ value RAM. That's a totally different animal than OCZ value RAM. Two sticks of it normally will do 245 Mhz or better, with 3.4v of vdimm, @ 2-2-2-7 timings. You should go buy a 120mm fan to put on top of your RAM, and give it 3.2v*, and see what it will do with 2-3-3-8 timings (and 1.40 LDT voltage, not 1.20v, and 1.60v of chipset voltage, along with either a 5x or 6x cpu multiplier). This RAM requires voltage, for overclocking-- it's got BH-5 IC's. Once you find out, then try 2.5-3-3-8 timings, to find out if it will go faster. And lastly, you'll want to change your DRAM Drive Strength to 6, since you have VX, probably. You may be forced to leave it at 4, though, because of having 4 sticks of RAM. Oh, yeah, this is the standard way to list RAM timings: 2.5-3-3-8. That equates to TCL: 2.5, Trcd: 3, Trp: 3, Tras: 8. Good luck.

*Do NOT give your RAM this much voltage without a 120mm fan blowing directly down on it.

edit: And no, we weren't talking about removing your BIOS chip. Resetting it is when you unplug the power supply (and leave it unplugged the entire time), hold in the power button for about 30 seconds to discharge the capacitors in the power suppy, and remove the motherboard's battery for at least 10 or 15 minutes. Be sure to write down all of your BIOS settings first, though. They'll all be gone, when you restart, and will all have to be changed back immediately.
 

DPOverLord

Golden Member
Dec 20, 1999
1,980
1
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Just wanted to say thanks again,
You are right on the money with the ram I have OCZ OCZ4001024WV3DC-K 1gb (2x512mb) PC-3200 Value VX 4x512mb ram. I was wondering if the fans on my case would suffice for Aircooling since they are right on the ram:

http://www.rit.edu/~jnm6650/DaRig/lrg_1274.jpg
http://www.rit.edu/~jnm6650/DaRig/lrg_1276.jpg
http://www.rit.edu/~jnm6650/DaRig/lrg_1275.jpg
http://www.rit.edu/~jnm6650/DaRig/lrg_1277.jpg
http://www.rit.edu/~jnm6650/DaRig/lrg_1278.jpg

I will write what I did since last night in a sec just got into work. Thanks again
 

myocardia

Diamond Member
Jun 21, 2003
9,291
30
91
I actually meant a 120mm fan on (touching) the RAM. The reason you'd need a 120mm fan is because you need the fan to stretch across 4 sticks, plus the sockets they go into. I mean, it's your expensive, non-replaceable RAM. You can try it if you want, but I personally wouldn't. 3.2 volts is alot of voltage. Your sticks can handle even more, but not without very good cooling. BTW, make sure and keep us updated as to how it goes, alright?
 

DPOverLord

Golden Member
Dec 20, 1999
1,980
1
86
Hmmm?. I see your point, my ram which was tweaked was a BASE and by no means did it mean the final product. As for what I have done with the ram I got it yesterday to 222 but when I came back from work it had errors. I read the DFI O/C guide and took there recommendations in raising some of the settings, such as I changed the TCL to 3, TREF to 3120 from 0780( bare with me don?t have my notes with me at work). I believe I changed the TRCD and TRP one notch up too.
At this point I booted it up and the computer froze before even posting, so I know one of my settings were off. I plan on doing more testing over the weekend for this. At this point I stayed with the settings which were stable at 215mhz(this is before I knew that raising the voltage would have helped me.
So for the ram how would I connect the 120 MM fan to it? I am familiar with installing the fans to the case by cutting into the metal. I just am not sure I understand how this fan would be installed (guides somewhere perhaps). If I can figure at work how to put this 120mm fan on I will go to compusa and buy one so I can test it out tonight when I get home. Considering that I built my case as a server / Overclocking machine I was hoping that would suffice. Either way I just want to make sure I get it right and don?t mess it up. The last thing I want to do is mess up my ram.

Back to what I have done with the O/C thus far, I followed Zebos O/c guide and for some reason I could only get the HTT to 215 @ a 7x multi. I then went to test my MAX CPU. I set my CPU Vid Control to 1.45 and my CPU VID Special control to 110% which gives 1.595v to the chip ( I originally had it @ 1.508 but the system was not as stable.
Moving on, my multi was set to 10, the LDT was set to 3x Dram was set to 220, and my DRAM Memory to a 133 divider. I came into windows and ran 2 instances of prime95 per the guide and it ran fine, I then moved to 230 and it seemed to be a littler jerky. I then went back to the bios and saw that DRAM Bank interleave was not off(not that it would cause the problem?) I then came back into windows ran 2 instances of prime95 and ran 3dmark06 at the same time. No problems after an hour. So getting a little trigger happy I moved it to 240 last night and ran 2 instances of Prime95, OCCT and SuperPi. When I woke up at 6 am they were still running fine and my cpu load temps were at around 45C. I then moved the multi to 250 and booted into windows. Now, I am not sure if this was smart since to me after reading all of this again it seems I am moving to fast since I am not REALLY getting a true reading due to how I am not letting it run long enough. Being at work now I do not feel it was a smart decision to have the computer running for 9 hours with prime and 3dmark06 being run in a continuous loop without me being able to monitor the temps,.... So before you yell I realized my error as I was driving in. Hopefully nothing goes wrong.
To Recap, I should get a 120mm fan and focus on finding the max of the ram before the HTT and Max CPU? Or should I get the fan but tweak the settings like you said and try to find a higher max HTT, then go for the MAX CPU, then RAM. Considering the issues were with the ram from the get-go I would think I should focus on getting this ram to its max setting first then worry about the rest. Am I right?

 

myocardia

Diamond Member
Jun 21, 2003
9,291
30
91
There are quite a few ways to attach a fan directly to your RAM. In my opinion, the best two ways use a rubber band. No, seriously. One way, you use two average length, average width rubber bands, and thread one through two screw holes on each side of the fan, then attach the rubber band to the tab of your memory slot that's closest to that hole. The other uses string or fishing line, tied tightly across the screw holes on each end of the fan. You then attach a short rubber band to the string, by tying the rubber band to it. After you've done that, you attach it to any or all of the memory tab(s) on that end (enough of them that it will be tight).

And yes, with a DFI motherboard, DRAM Bank Interleave must be off, when running @2T. Also, don't forget about raising your LDT voltage, and your chipset voltage. Both have to raised as your HTT goes higher, no matter what your cpu multiplier is set at. If that makes you uncomfortable, then just raise them one notch at a time, until it starts becoming unstable. And yes, you should monitor your temps. But, your temps don't go up any (possibly a degree or two) after about 20 minutes. So, as long as you don't raise the voltage, then raise the clock speed, start Orthos/SP2004 and walk out the door, you should be fine with running it while you're asleep or at work.

That RAM will last years at 3.2v, with a decent flow fan blowing directly on them. It probably won't last a week without a fan on them @3.2v. As a matter of fact, you don't even void the warranty with that RAM, @ 3.2v.:D Oh, and you're wrong about one thing: while you're in the process of overclocking, you don't have to test for stability for all that long. An hour is plenty. It's once you've decided how far you're going to take the overclock when you have to start running SP2004 for longer periods. On your way up the Mhz scale, 30 min. to an hour is plenty.
 

DPOverLord

Golden Member
Dec 20, 1999
1,980
1
86

RAM:
First are there any fans I can pick up from CompUSA, RadioShack, bestbuy that you would recommend? Since I don?t want to mess it up. LoLz
Tell me if I got this right,
When I get the fan and am attaching it to the ram, I am putting the rubber band threw the screw holes and attaching it through ?holes in the dimms???? OR am I circling the rubber band around the tabs that lock the ram into the slots? Just want ot make sur eI understood that right since I am trying to picture in my head how I am going to get this on the ram. The next thing was, you wrote:

Originally posted by: myocardia
after about 20 minutes. So, as long as you don't raise the voltage, then raise the clock speed, start Orthos/SP2004 and walk out the door, you should be fine with running it while you're asleep or at work.
.

That kind of threw me off did you mean to say, " if I am raising the clock speed and raising the voltage monitor it. If I am not raising the voltage but raising the clock speed I am fine to walk out the door / sleep." Figure your just saying I can sleep as long as I am not raising the voltage. :) Thanks! I was reading the DFI board like everyone said and I saw people hitting 2.7ghz with the same RAM as myself........ The only thing about this that throws me off with the ram, is that to hit 1:1 it comes down to the speed the RAM can handle. If I remember right the Value VX chips have BH5 on them so technically speaking they can clock fairly well. At the end of the day though its the CPU which will be the limiting factor. Since either it will go up to 240-270 FSB or not. Since is it not affected as much by the ram??? Lastly, I am still a little thrown off after reading the guides on MAX HTT. Considering that many people state how O/C HTT gives little improvement and that you should not go above 2000 HTT( LDTXFSBx2); what difference is it making?
The reason I am not sure is due to this: Lets say my FSB on the cpu @ LDT 3-4x can hit 240-260 and my ram maxes out @ 215. At this point I am going to have to put a divider on the ram so that I can get the highest clock. Where does the HTT O/C come into play? I know I am asking a lot and you all have busy lives I really appreciate all of your time. I have learned a ****** load from this thread and the countless hours I have been spending reading up. Thanks a million
 

myocardia

Diamond Member
Jun 21, 2003
9,291
30
91
No problem, man. First, no, you don't attach the rubber bands to the RAM, you attach them to the tabs that you referred to. Secondly, cpu temperature goes up with either higher voltage, or higher clockspeed. It just goes up more with higher voltage, and pretty much skyrockets when you raise both. Speaking of temps, you aren't using the factory heatsink, are you?

Oh, I almost forgot, higher HTT doesn't help much at all, unless the RAM is also running at a considerably higher speed. For instance, there's about 1/10 as much performance lost if you drop your HT multiplier from 5x to 3x, as there is from raising your overclock by 1 or 2 Mhz. And not 1 or 2 Mhz x your cpu multiplier, but total cpu Mhz. But, some processors will puke immediately, if the total HTT (multiplier X "FSB") is more a few Mhz above 1,000. Others will run as high as 1,150 and a few will hit 1,200. Of course, there's no discernible performance benefit, as long as you keep the total HTT above 600 Mhz.

edit: Oh, I forgot something in my last post: your problem came (when you changed your RAM timings) from changing the Tref. Your RAM usually runs best @ a Tref of 3120, but, that's with only 2 sticks, when it can clock up over 240 Mhz. BTW, if you happen to be able to get it up around 240 Mhz, don't be surprised if you have to find another Tref besides 0780. It might be 3120, but it might be one of the other options. Anyway, you can set your Trcd and Trp as high as you want; not as low, but as high.
 

palouse

Member
Sep 28, 2004
90
0
0
Originally posted by: DPOverLord
Hmmm?. I see your point, my ram which was tweaked was a BASE and by no means did it mean the final product. As for what I have done with the ram I got it yesterday to 222 but when I came back from work it had errors. ...bla, bla, bla...
To Recap, I should get a 120mm fan and focus on finding the max of the ram before the HTT and Max CPU? Or should I get the fan but tweak the settings like you said and try to find a higher max HTT, then go for the MAX CPU, then RAM. Considering the issues were with the ram from the get-go I would think I should focus on getting this ram to its max setting first then worry about the rest. Am I right?
I was hoping to move on, but I have to give one more shot. I think you need to ask yourself, "are you an OC enthusiast, or do you want a basic and relatively outstanding OC for your system?"

An enthusiast seeks to wring the last 1.5% of performance from the system. An enthusiast would have RTFM'd (Read the Fine Manual), absorbed the information, and would not need to ask the questions you are asking.

Someone seeking a basic overclock is looking for great performance, great value, and a stable system. They are not all that interested in spending hours tweaking and testing, they would rather move on to using the computer, not having purchased the system for an OC hobby. They don't want to fry components, corrupt a hard drive, or turn their room into a sauna. Once stable and usable, they could later tweak the system for that last bit of performance.

I will make the assumption that you want a basic overclock, since you haven't really absorbed what Zebo wrote. Zebo will also point out in this and other research articles that most performance comes from the CPU OC, on the order of 95% to 99.5%. Your RAM tweaks will be barely noticable in realistic benchmarks. You will not percieve the difference in most real world applications.

From the start, do you really want to spend the time tweaking RAM for a 0.5% to 2.5% gain in performance? If so, drive on with your track. If not, if you want to try basic, try the hints below.

1) Skip the motherboard OC, which you have apparently done.
2) RAM OC test is finished. Fails at 220FSB, works at 215FSB. Consider your max RAM OC to be 215FSB with the default settings that you used.
3) Finish the CPU OC. Go to BIOS. Reset to default. Set DRAM = 100, which is 1:2 divider, the lowest. Set CPU multi - 10. Set FSB = 240. Reboot, and run your tests. NOW, start doing what Zebo recommends: test for 5 minutes, and if it passes, stop, go to BIOS, up the FSB 10 points, reboot, and run the test for 5 minutes. Keep repeating until the system fails before 5 minutes. At failure, you have found your CPU limits. Back off the FSB until the tests are stable, then back off another 5% for safety margin, and run a long term test on that FSB.

My guess is that you will start to see instability at around 270FSB, and will be stable at 260 FSB.

Finally, set a divider that keeps the RAM at less than 215 FSB, and run 24 hour stress tests. Including MemTest at some point, just to be sure. If RAM OC is at 260 FSB, then the "133" divider will run RAM at 173. The "166" divider will run it at 216 FSB.

Once RAM divider is set, and tests are passed, leave it for a while and use it. Go back later and tweak RAM to your heart's desire. Beware the extra heat generated.

And RTFM. Research your ValueVX, the potential, and the risks. Tweak it later. I missed that it was ValueVX, not that it matters for basic OC. I tried ValueVX, did not like the heat generated for the impercievable improvement in performance, small rooms with no airconditioning and all.

Good luck. Bye.
 

DPOverLord

Golden Member
Dec 20, 1999
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Makes Sense will write more in a bit. Just wanted to say thank you for your time ahead of time ;-)
 

gorgeousjorge

Junior Member
Feb 22, 2007
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Hi all,i think what palouse said in is last post is true,from my understanding when i`ve overclocked my winchester 3200+ the goal is to find the max oc and max ram wich ill run stable,when you follow the guide at diy street.
I´ve done things in separate ways,first the cpu then the ram or vice-versa but when i´ve combined them;memtest would give me errors all the way from the start,no timings tweaked at that time,so after trying to understand all i´ve reached to this conclusion:because of the memory controller which is inclued on the cpu we are dependent of that and i cannot get my ram as high as it can gets without errors,215 is the max with cpu default.

So as stated before i would bet on oc the cpu mhz and leave the memory as low/stable,without giving errors.Currently i have 268 fsb and i`m running memory on a divisor(don`t remember which one,it`s late).It`s a fact that cpu mhz is way much more eficient than ram oc,so i did make that choice.
I´ll post tomorrow some of my bios choices/timmings,etc.

One more thing I´m using the orange slots.
2X 512 patriot 2x2x3x5 i think,tomorrow i`ll confirm.
3200 winchester core 2680mhz.default is 2000mhz.
Dfi lanparty ultra-d.

Regards to all
 

DPOverLord

Golden Member
Dec 20, 1999
1,980
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Originally posted by: gorgeousjorge
Hi all,i think what palouse said in is last post is true,from my understanding when i`ve overclocked my winchester 3200+ the goal is to find the max oc and max ram wich ill run stable,when you follow the guide at diy street.
I´ve done things in separate ways,first the cpu then the ram or vice-versa but when i´ve combined them;memtest would give me errors all the way from the start,no timings tweaked at that time,so after trying to understand all i´ve reached to this conclusion:because of the memory controller which is inclued on the cpu we are dependent of that and i cannot get my ram as high as it can gets without errors,215 is the max with cpu default.

So as stated before i would bet on oc the cpu mhz and leave the memory as low/stable,without giving errors.Currently i have 268 fsb and i`m running memory on a divisor(don`t remember at this this,it`s late).It`s a fact that cpu mhz is way much more eficient than ram oc,so i did make that choice.
I´ll post tomorrow some of my bios choices/timmings,etc.

One more thing I´m using the orange slots.
2X 512 patriot 2x2x3x5 i think,tomorrow i`ll confirm.
3200 winchester core 2680mhz.default is 2000mhz.
Dfi lanparty ultra-d.

Regards to all

Thanks a lot, so I am heading off home and this is what I plan on doing ( basics).
What I plan on doing:
A. Getting the ram back at the stable settings
B. Re-finding the MAX O/C of the ram by running prime 95 for 5-10 min ( Torture Test Option??) If it is fine I will move on and increase the FSB in 5-10mhz increments. While my:
LDT = 2.5/3
Multi= 10
Vcore I am debating now between 1.45-1.6
And all the rest of the info listed above.
 

DPOverLord

Golden Member
Dec 20, 1999
1,980
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Ok I got back to my house, after 12+ hours the computer was stable in prime running at Dram 100 1/2 divider, and at an FSB of 250. I am moving on now to test it at 260. Will give you my results as it moves on

BTW Temp was at 48C, I moved my vcore to 1.5v now and it seems to be running steady with no hiccups @ 2.6.
LDT = 1.28
DRAM volt = 1.68,

Tested @ FSB 270, and I got a hardware failure in prime95. going to change Vcore and see what happens

Prime95 failed after 30 min. @270
 

DPOverLord

Golden Member
Dec 20, 1999
1,980
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So my settings at the moment are as follows

(EDIT: For Easier reference go:
Dram Settings CPUZ
CPU INFO
Multiplier = 10
FSB/HTT = 265
Memory Divider =133 (2650.8mhz /15) = 176.7mhz
CPU voltage = 1.595V
CPU VID Control=1.45cpuvid
CPU Vid Special Control= 110
LDT voltage= 1.38v
Chipset Voltage = 1.68v
DRAM voltage = 2.91v
HT Link (LDT mult)i = 4.0


Cas/TRCD/TRP/TRAS
= 2-3-3-8
Command Rate = 2T
TRC =10
TRFC =16
TREF =3120cycles
TwCL =1
DQS Skew Control= Off
Dram Skew Value=0
Digital Lockup Loop= Enabled

The next thing is to test it overnight for stability. For a memory divider I already know a D200 (1:1) is not going to work since my FSB is at 260/265

Since I know from before that my ram maxed at 215/220 To get as close to possible I can run:

265 x .75(150MHZ Divider) = 198.75mhz,
265 x .83(166Mhz Divider) = 219.95mhz.

I am going to try it at 166mhz first and see what happens. Maybe I can work on the ram and make it stable @ 166mhz... ?

Tell me what you think.

EDIT:
Thought I would note that OCCD & SuperPi ran perfectly on a FSB of 265, LDT of 2x and DRAM 133 (before I put on the juice)

EDIT:
I changed the
FSB to 260
LDT/HTT to 3,
My memory divider is at 14(150)

I then changed the Vcore to 1.47

EDIT: Its been prime stable now for 7 hrs @ 2.6 ghz I will let it run for the rest of the day at this speed and see what happens.

 

DPOverLord

Golden Member
Dec 20, 1999
1,980
1
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I meant to edit the post above and created this by accident so I will go on to explain.


The few things I am pondering are:
1. It seems the CPU temps hover around 47C to 52C at max cpu usage. How is this?
2. I think I moved too fast by trying to O/C the Sapphire 1950XT to get more juice out of it. Reason being tha I have not done enough tests on my CPU to see where it is most stable.
3. CPU Stability thus far,
(i)I made a spreadsheet which is at home unfortunately, (/i) pretty much the CPU ran fine @ (Look at picture links I posted above
FSB 265
LDT 4x
Vcore= 1.58V. ( 1.475 *110%)
At this speed things ran well in SuperPi, Prime95, OCCT(30 min). When I booted it into games every hr or so I would get a periodic lock up. I am not sure if this is due to my HTT being @ 2120(above the 2000 thresh-hold) or because I had a slight O/C on the Video Card. Either way I rebooted and changed to the following:

FSB 260
LDT 3x
DRAM = 150 (3/4)
Vcore was dropped to 1.47
I was hoping the temperatures would have lowered at this temperature but sadly the system still hovered from 45-51C ( a little better but not what I was looking for due to the Video card O/C I want to do).
I have not come home yet but this ran SuperPi 32m and Prime95 with no hiccups from 1:00 am to 8:00 am with no problem. When I get back home later I will see if it is still Prime stable.
My other questions are:

1. Everything I have read from your posts and the guides says MAX MHZ is King. With that being said should I still try to make 2650mhz work? Or should I focus more on getting it working at 2600mhz at less heat?
2. As for memory speed would I see a noticeable difference from 150 to 166? Since I read from Angry that the difference from 133 to 150 is huge.
3. Any tidbits of information you would like to give me regarding what I have done thus far?

I just want to say again all of your help is very appreciate
 

DPOverLord

Golden Member
Dec 20, 1999
1,980
1
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I just wanted to state that I cleared the cmos from the instructions on DIY forums site before I did the 2650 O/C.
When I booted into the CMOs I just loaded the options from the Bank slot