Venice 3200 and DFI ULTRA-D O/C problem??

[DPOverLord]

Ok I have a Venice 3200 listed in my sig coupled with a DFI ULTRA-D. I decided that the bottleneck in my system is my CPU since with my new 1950XT I am not seeing much of a performance increase in games, 3d applications yada yada.
My goal originally was to get my Venice 3200 to 2.6 GHZ but it does not seem I am having much luck. I have another Venice 3200 lying around which I will try if this fails. Listed below are the steps I have taken and I am looking in seeing A. What I am doing wrong, B. What I am doing right or C. My cpu is just not a good chip for O/C (could be memory)

What I have done:
A. I followed the O/C guide and some other guides. The method I took to find my max CPU was as follows:

1. Max HTT/FSB
-set CPU multi to 6 or 7, this will take CPU out of equation
-set memory to SPD and 100, this will take memory out of equation

Now as for my memory I just kept it at the default settings and set the dram Frequency set to 100. I believe that I did not set my ram to its SPD. (CPC = auto??)Due to how I am not 100% actually what settings these equal:

Rated Timings 2.5-3-3-7 at DDR400
SPD (Auto) Timings 2.5-3-3-7
Rated Voltage 2.6V
[/]
Please tell me if I performed this correctly since I am not 100% sure.

-Increase HTT/FSB up until you fail to boot or there abouts, back down 5%, (HTT * 0.95), this is your max safe HTT.

The setting I got performing this was a HTT/FSB of 220 after 12 hours of prime 95


2. Max Chip capable
- I set my multiplier to 10 (CPU FSB Frequency Ratio)
- I set my Vcore ( CPU VID CONTROL) to 1.475v

-Set mem to SPD and 100, this will take memory out of equation

I did the same as above

- I set my LDT/ FSB Frequency Ratio to 3x
-starting with HTT 200 raise in about 5Mhz to 10mhz increments up to boards max found earlier or until you start failing PRIME95 which will probably happen first..only give it 5 minutes max, that's good enough for now.

I started actually at 220 to see what would happen and it got a BSOD, I then went ahead and went down to 215 and got a BSOD, Last night I went to 205 and its still running prime95.

These numbers to me seem very low. I BELIEVE I took the ram out of the equation but I will let you be the judge if I performed something incorrectly. I have another Venice 3200 but I am out of Artic silver so I will have to buy some ( or if you can recommend a PC store I can go to on my lunch break to buy some that would be great). Otherwise if this does not work I will just have to do what I was considering,
Buy new RAM,
Buy new Mobo,
Buy new CPU


As for the ram I am using listed below in my sig I bought it originally due to this review:
http://www.anandtech.com/printarticle.aspx?i=2392] Anandtech Review [/url] I do not know how to go around setting up this ram in my bios as per finding the max of my ram. However the current settings I am using for my ram on the Ram section are:

Currently I am running these at some really low settings:
CPC - Auto
TCL 2.5
TRCD 04
TRAS Auto
TRP 07
TRC 07
TRFC Auto
TRRD 03
TWR 03
TWTR 02
TRWT 03
TREF 4708
TWCL Auto

Dram Bank Enable
DQS Skew Control AUto
DQS Skew Value 0
DRAM Drive Strength Auto

On memtest this is fine but it seems like I am getting no Juice out of this so I am curious if you have any ideas as to what is to be expected of this. My system is listed below in my sig.


EDIT: Wanted to just say thanks for all help ahead of time!

 

[f4phantom2500]

Sounds like you have a dud something. Dud CPU, dud motherboard, dud PSU maybe. Try the other processor then give us an update. The RAM doesn't sound like the problem because it's running at ~102.5MHz. At first I thought the RAM may have been running too slow, but since it was stable at 102MHz and not 110 that may be ruled out. What I would do to definitely rule out the RAM is to try to keep it as close to stock speeds as possible without going over. If it works when you do that, then just try to keep the RAM from going too low (I know it sounds weird but you never know, the weirdest thing can make a computer crap out). Try the other processor, and update after that. If you get similar results, it's probably either the mobo, RAM, or PSU. What kind of PSU do you have?

 

[rise]

you could only get a 220 htt on an ultra-d? what was the multi at?

 

[DPOverLord]

Originally posted by: rise
you could only get a 220 htt on an ultra-d? what was the multi at?

The multi was at 7
when I changed the multi to 10 I could only get 205....


I realized I need more thermal paste since the retail box on the other venice has been sitting around for almost a year. Would bestbuy or radioshack have thermal paste I can get??? Pretty much do you know any B&M I can go get some from?


this just does not make sense something is wrong. Or I am using wrong settings...

 

[myocardia]

Originally posted by: DPOverLord
Would bestbuy or radioshack have thermal paste I can get??? Pretty much do you know any B&M I can go get some from?


this just does not make sense something is wrong. Or I am using wrong settings...

You never said which of those memories you bought. It makes a difference, when you have a DFI motherboard. I can tell you that you have your RAM subtimings way off, but I'll need to know exactly which RAM you have, to be able to tell you the correct subtimings. And yes, it makes a difference. Well, it does with my Ultra-D, anyway.

So, have you turned off Cool n Quiet? Have you manually set your PCI-E bus to 100 Mhz? I'll reboot, and look at the other things you're gonna have to change, before you get very far. I'll be back.

 

[DPOverLord]

Originally posted by: myocardia

You never said which of those memories you bought. It makes a difference, when you have a DFI motherboard. I can tell you that you have your RAM subtimings way off, but I'll need to know exactly which RAM you have, to be able to tell you the correct subtimings. And yes, it makes a difference. Well, it does with my Ultra-D, anyway.

So, have you turned off Cool n Quiet? Have you manually set your PCI-E bus to 100 Mhz? I'll reboot, and look at the other things you're gonna have to change, before you get very far. I'll be back.

Cool n Quiet is on, I have not manually set my PCI-E bus to anything at the moment, as for my computer, it is :

MOBO -- DFI LANPARTY NF4 Ultra D
CPU -- Venice 3200 ( I have another one here too)LBBLE 0518DPAW
RAM -- Currently I am using 2GB of Ram OCZ Winbond model 1GB OCZ4001024WV3DC-K
VIDEO -- VGA SAPPHIRE 100186L X1950XT
CASE -- Lian Li Custom Modded Pc-70 USB
CAse Pic one
Case Pic Two
PSU -- OCZ POWERSTREAM 600W
HDD -- 2 Seagate 400GB 1 Seagate 100GB
DVD -- Plextor PX760A
SoundCard - SB Audigy EX
Bios Using 6/23

CPC was on enable so when I get home ( at work atm) I will disabke that.
My LDT/ FSB Frequency ratio was set to 3x
My LDT/FSB Frequency ratio ( DRAM Configuration) was set to 100 ( 1/2)
for finding the max speed of the cpu
I thought this would bring my cpu below 1000 since my fsb was initially for HTT 220 CPU ratio 7, DRAM was 100mhz 1/2 which was for my HTT max value ( 220) Which put my:

CPU Clock Speed:1540 MHz
HTT Bus Speed: 660MHz
RAM Speed: 110MHz

Then on the next round I put it at: Cpu Ratio Multi = 10x CPU HTT = 205 LDT Multi= 3x Ram Frequency = 100mhz 1/2 DDR200 which gave:

CPU Clock Speed:2050 MHz
HTT Bus Speed: 615MHz
RAM Speed: 103MHz

this seems awfully low so I am definitely doing something wrong
-
My bios is 6/23 [

 

[myocardia]

Hmm, BIOS is 6/23 of what year? Anyway, with a single core chip, it shouldn't make much difference, really. And you'll want to leave CPC on, that's what gives you a 1T command rate. So, do you have OCZ Premier, or OCZ Value RAM? Because if it's the Value, try a 2T command rate (CPC off, in other words). As far as the other settings, try these:

LDT voltage: 1.4v << that's your HT bus voltage
Chipset voltage: 1.6v

RAM-----------------------------------------------
Tcl: 3.0
Trcd: 3
Trp: 3
Tras: 8
tRC: 15
tRFC: 18
tREF: 0780

DQS Skew Control: Auto
DQS Skew Value: 0
DRAM Drive Strengh: Level 4, 3, or 2 (start at 2, and work your way up; this is the most important value for getting a DFI motherboard to work with your RAM).
DRAM Data Drive Strenth: Level 4 (Reduce 00%)
DRAM Response Time: Normal<< second most important setting, unless you have really low timing RAM
Idle Cycle Limit: 064 cycles

Those settings should get you somewhere. Be sure to test 2, 3, and 4 with the DRAM Drive Strength, because I'm not sure about your RAM. Most people buy more expensive RAM for DFI motherboards. Good luck.

 

[DPOverLord]

myocardia,
Before I get to that point did you see where I was trying to find the MAX CPU / Max HTT? Did I do something wrong there or should I run this test on the memory? I can pick up some Artic Silver from compusa:
http://www.compusa.com/products/product...ilver_5_Polysynthetic_Thermal_Compound
The price seems a little high for that model. I would only be using it to test the other cpu.

What do you think?

The bios is from 6/23/05

 

[rise]

you isolated fine, i just wasn't clear if your multi was still at 7x when you got the 220htt. you do have all 4 power connectors going to the mobo?

i wouldn't be thinking as5, an htt of 220 won't get you anywhere.

 

[DPOverLord]

Yeah thats my problem Rise....
On the bright side I have another venice 3200 which has never been touched and has just been collecting dust for 1 1/2 years. So I was thinking maybe I should get some thermal compound and plop the heatsink on and test it out. This way I can see if my problem is:

1. my Motherboard ( it has been acting funny lately, i.e. fan problems... may need a new fan as per another post I had)
2. My cpu ( if I change the cpu and the HTT moves higher when the multiplier is @ 10 wouldnt this show me it was the cpu??) All things considered I will need more thermal compound should I invest in some artic silver? Or should I just get some radio shack compound?

Plus it can't be the ram at the moment since I jacked it down. The reason why I was considering it may be an issue is due to me having the wrong settings.

At this point where should I go?

 

[rise]

it would be worth the shot. if it is the same 220htt you have your answer right there.

 

[DPOverLord]

So just get the cheap stuff from radioshack? 5$ or spend the 12$ on the artic silver I listed above from compusa?

 

[f4phantom2500]

I got a 3 gram tube of AS5 shipped on ebay from a power seller, he's got like 18 left or so buy it now, if you don't mind waiting. I believe his name was thermalmaster. If I were you I would try to keep the HTT as close to 2000 as possible (well, you know, 1000). Only throttle down the HTT multi when it gets too high (say, above 2200. 1700~2200 is a good range).

EDIT: ugh, I'm a dumb@ss, I meant ebay not newegg XP

http://cgi.ebay.com/Arctic-Silver-5-Hig...2QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

 

[DPOverLord]

Originally posted by: f4phantom2500
I got a 3 gram tube of AS5 shipped on newegg from a power seller, he's got like 18 left or so buy it now, if you don't mind waiting. I believe his name was thermalmaster. If I were you I would try to keep the HTT as close to 2000 as possible (well, you know, 1000). Only throttle down the HTT multi when it gets too high (say, above 2200. 1700~2200 is a good range).

Phantom where do I find that info on newegg? Also I thought I was WAY below the 1000 range since I was more in the 600 range. The problems I am listing above are BEFORE me even getting to finding my MAX Memory. It seems I have the following problems either: Wrong settings, bad equipment, a bad cpu or LoLZ all of the above.. So I need the AS to test if the other cpu I have can be pushed higher. I was using a program to see where my HTT is but if I am right I wont have to worry about that until I get to the ram section. Please correct me if I am off on anything

 

[f4phantom2500]

I would keep it as close to 1000 as I could, you never know, might not underclock too well.

 

[myocardia]

Originally posted by: DPOverLord
Phantom where do I find that info on newegg? Also I thought I was WAY below the 1000 range since I was more in the 600 range. The problems I am listing above are BEFORE me even getting to finding my MAX Memory. It seems I have the following problems either: Wrong settings, bad equipment, a bad cpu or LoLZ all of the above.. So I need the AS to test if the other cpu I have can be pushed higher. I was using a program to see where my HTT is but if I am right I wont have to worry about that until I get to the ram section. Please correct me if I am off on anything

You actually need to get your RAM, along with all of the other settings I was telling you about in my previous post right, before you begin any testing. If you don't, you'll run into exactly the kinds of problems you're having now. Do all of this before you starting trying to swap cpu's, because you won't be overclocking any cpu with that board, until you have settings that will work. BTW, the worst overclocking 3200 I've ever heard of was able to do 2.3 Ghz (230 HTT), but, that wasn't a Venice. I've never heard of a Venice topping out at only 2.3 Ghz.

edit: Oh, and I forgot, you have to give your RAM at least an extra .1v of vdimm, when overclocking the cpu, even if you aren't overclocking the RAM. Sounds strange, but it's true at least 90% of the time. So, you'll need to give yours 2.7, if not 2.8v of vdimm.

 

[DPOverLord]

I am going to go test the ram at those settings. Should I put all the settings back to how they were in the beginning and test the ram at those settings? Or should I just set it and test the cpu all over again?

 

[myocardia]

Personally, I'd keep the RAM on a divider, although you won't need to leave it at 100 Mhz. Your processor will run out of steam before you get your RAM back up to 200 Mhz, I promise. I would use the 133 Mhz divider, during testing. You'll likely be able to go back up to the 150 Mhz divider, unless you have one of the best overclocking Venices ever.

And, there's a pretty decent chance, after you've figured out how high your processor can go, that you'll be able to use either the 166 Mhz divider, or possibly even the 180 Mhz divider. Most value RAM will do a minimum of 215 Mhz, with 220 not all that rare.

 

[DPOverLord]

What do you foresee these venices reaching? I was hoping to get 2.6ghz out of them. My case has lots of fans and everything is temperature controlled. I am going to head off home now and check it all out.

 

[myocardia]

Most have been reaching 2.6-2.7 Ghz, although some of the E3 cores wouldn't go quite that high. It's almost guaranteed that you should be able to hit around 2.4, though.

 

[palouse]

Originally posted by: DPOverLord
Ok I have a Venice 3200 listed in my sig coupled with a DFI ULTRA-D...

You really should check out the old DFI support forum files. The forum seems to have been absorbed into a new format, but same history records are still available.
Old DFI support forum.
For Ultra D issues, you get a lot of detail.

First issue you find is that the handful of DFI employees supporting the site at the time HIGHLY recommend against using "Value RAM" on any of the LanParty NF4 boards. I still got 'value RAM' to work, using employee and other contributor hints. Bottom line, I feel your pain.

** First and best hint was to clear CMOS after every change in settings!! It sounds like a lot of work, but that board gives you some time saving tools. It will save settings: make changes, save them to memory, clear CMOS as recommended, restart and go to BIOS, activate new/saved BIOS settings, and continue with boot. I have seen the CMOS get so corrupted that manually changing to default BIOS settings would not allow it to boot.

* MemTest your memory. I had two sets of OCZ value ram (Value and ValueVX) fail MemTest as they came from NewEgg, with default BIOS settings. I "upgraded" from 2x512Mb OCZ to 4x512Mb Corsair, and don't regret the decision. My son's games play just fine.

* Try moving the 2x1Gb modules to the other pair of sockets.

Finally, you will not lose much going to 2T (CPC). If you do go to 2T, disable Bank Interleave at the same time. I can not boot with 1T or BI enabled. It is more an issue of using 4 modules, but give it a try.

Nothing you mention will indicate a CPU problem, your RAM is untested, and your motherboard requires patience. Relax, research, and it will work.

 

[DPOverLord]

Thats funny I have almost the same exact system as you! I just changed out the Gigabyte Silent pipe X800xl since I wanted a faster G-card so I went with the 1950XT then I found out my bottleneck was my CPU.

As for ram I have 4x512mb OCZ ram. Now when you say erase the cmos. Do you mean take the chip out for 60 sec then put it back in. THEN go to the setup and click Restore CMos? Is that what you mean? So if I change the settings, Save them on one of the chips then Clear it? I am not sure of the exact method.

As for memtest, are you recommending Memtesting one stick at at ime? I have 4 of those sticks is the thing. .

just some clarification thanks!

 

[DPOverLord]

Originally posted by: palouse

Originally posted by: DPOverLord
Ok I have a Venice 3200 listed in my sig coupled with a DFI ULTRA-D...

You really should check out the old DFI support forum files. The forum seems to have been absorbed into a new format, but same history records are still available.
Old DFI support forum.
For Ultra D issues, you get a lot of detail.

First issue you find is that the handful of DFI employees supporting the site at the time HIGHLY recommend against using "Value RAM" on any of the LanParty NF4 boards. I still got 'value RAM' to work, using employee and other contributor hints. Bottom line, I feel your pain.

** First and best hint was to clear CMOS after every change in settings!! It sounds like a lot of work, but that board gives you some time saving tools. It will save settings: make changes, save them to memory, clear CMOS as recommended, restart and go to BIOS, activate new/saved BIOS settings, and continue with boot. I have seen the CMOS get so corrupted that manually changing to default BIOS settings would not allow it to boot.

* MemTest your memory. I had two sets of OCZ value ram (Value and ValueVX) fail MemTest as they came from NewEgg, with default BIOS settings. I "upgraded" from 2x512Mb OCZ to 4x512Mb Corsair, and don't regret the decision. My son's games play just fine.

* Try moving the 2x1Gb modules to the other pair of sockets.

Finally, you will not lose much going to 2T (CPC). If you do go to 2T, disable Bank Interleave at the same time. I can not boot with 1T or BI enabled. It is more an issue of using 4 modules, but give it a try.

Nothing you mention will indicate a CPU problem, your RAM is untested, and your motherboard requires patience. Relax, research, and it will work.

Thats funny I have almost the same exact system as you! I just changed out the Gigabyte Silent pipe X800xl since I wanted a faster G-card so I went with the 1950XT then I found out my bottleneck was my CPU.

As for ram I have 4x512mb OCZ ram. Now when you say erase the cmos. Do you mean take the chip out for 60 sec then put it back in. THEN go to the setup and click Restore CMos? Is that what you mean? So if I change the settings, Save them on one of the chips then Clear it? I am not sure of the exact method.

As for memtest, are you reccomending Memtesting one stick at at ime? I have 4 of those sticks is the thing. .

just some clarification thanks!

 

[palouse]

Originally posted by: DPOverLord
As for ram I have 4x512mb OCZ ram. Now when you say erase the cmos. Do you mean take the chip out for 60 sec then put it back in. THEN go to the setup and click Restore CMos? Is that what you mean? So if I change the settings, Save them on one of the chips then Clear it? I am not sure of the exact method.

As for memtest, are you recommending Memtesting one stick at a time? I have 4 of those sticks is the thing. .

just some clarification thanks!

You need to read up on the CMOS clearing procedure to ensure you do not break anything, or reassemble to cause a problem.

The DFI-street site recommended removing the btty and plug for 10 minutes, but that is not found in the Ultra-D manual. Using the shorting plug for 60 seconds, and removing the btty worked for me, but I used the "10 minute method" too.

I misunderstood; I thought you had two RAM modules. Based upon my experience with 4xvalueRAM, I highly recommend that you try 2T and Bank Interleave disabled.

Be happy with a divider setting that gets you close to 200. If you run under 200, no big deal. (Reading the Zebo authored CPU forum posts may help explain why.) You might even get more than 200, if you are lucky. You have more options with the Venice 3200, having one more multiplier than a 3000, which equates to more RAM O/C options. Remember, MemTest should be the first test run after increasing a system OC, not the last, or an after thought.

Run MemTest 1.51 (embedded function of motherboard BIOS), using test 5 or 6 overnight, with all 4 modules installed as they are, default BIOS settings. If it passes, run it a second night using the general, "all tests" setting. If it passes, good to go, you're done. If any test fails, try to isolate by using Memtest on each module individually; remove the other three. You must put the single module in one particular slot, I don't rember which.

I saw no benefit from increasing the RAM voltage (vDRAM) higher than recommended by mfgr.

 

[myocardia]

Originally posted by: palouse
** First and best hint was to clear CMOS after every change in settings!! It sounds like a lot of work, but that board gives you some time saving tools. It will save settings: make changes, save them to memory, clear CMOS as recommended, restart and go to BIOS, activate new/saved BIOS settings, and continue with boot. I have seen the CMOS get so corrupted that manually changing to default BIOS settings would not allow it to boot.

palouse, everything you said in your post is true, except this part. You can make changes to the BIOS anytime you want, without doing anything except saving the changes. You just misunderstood what they were saying. With this board, even moreso than with other brands, it is definitely a must to "load BIOS defaults" after updating the BIOS. But, if you only want to change a setting, any setting, you only need to save the changes.

@DP: It took you 11 posts in this thread before something as important as you're trying to overclock with 4 sticks of RAM comes out? That should have been in your very first post. In case you hadn't noticed, we aren't at your house with you. If you don't tell us something, we'll never know it.

Anyway, after changing the things I told you to change earlier, here's what you need to do: put your HTT back to 200 Mhz, and put your RAM timings at whatever they are supposed to be. What did you say they were supposed to be? 2.5-3-3-7, right? Okay, then change your RAM frequency to 200 Mhz, and change your CPC to either 2T or Off, depending on the BIOS version you have (off is 2T in some versions), and disabling Bank Interleave, as palouse said. Now, change your vdimm to 2.80v, and enable MemTest in the BIOS (at the bottom of the same screen that you adjust the vdimm). Remember, this is AFTER changing every single thing in your BIOS that has already been recommended by me about 5 or 6 posts above.

Once MemTest starts, run test #5 for about 5 passes. If it passes, then restart the computer, and go to bed. When you wake up, if it hasn't failed any tests, then you have no bad sticks. If you get failures on either test #5 or #8, then your processor won't run your RAM @ 200 Mhz. According to AMD, it isn't supposed to be able to, unless it's an E6. That isn't OCZ's fault.

If you want to test every single stick by itself, you can, but there's very little chance that it has anything at all to do with a bad stick of RAM. It most likely only involves running 4 sticks of RAM with a processor that wasn't designed to run with 4 sticks of RAM @ 200 Mhz. Well, actually, the E6's are supposed to be able to run 4 sticks @ 200 Mhz and 2T command rate, I think. I'm pretty sure that the E3's aren't, and don't. They require 166 Mhz, and 2T, if memory serves. Of course, my memory isn't what it used to be, either. I do know that the San Diego cores will do 4 sticks @ 200 Mhz and 2T.