Venezuela thread

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K1052

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
53,488
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136
Muse said:
I saw some coverage on that on network TV news tonight. I doubt very much the claim that no US personnel died in the action (they're acknowledging injuries). They almost always say that but I think they are just lying this time and many other times.
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The VZ military stood down knowing it was coming. The only real resistance was from Maduro's Cuban security. Why did Maduro have Cuban personal security you may ask? Protection from internal risks like Cabello so he didn't wake up with his throat slit one morning.

As much as America may not believe in the existence of internal politics of foreign nations they sure do actually exist.
 
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Brovane

Brovane

Diamond Member
Dec 18, 2001
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Abwx said:
You should stop, since 9/11 there s 4.5 millions people who died because of the wars waged by the US, think about it, Maduro is less than a negligible quantity,.

Think that Venezuela GDP was 372bn $ back in 2014 and it was crushed by 80% by the US in a matter of 8 years since 2017, dont lecture people about what is evilness when your presidents are the very ones willfully starving the people of this country.
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The ‘International Law’ Illusion in Venezuela
 
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K1052

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
53,488
47,962
136
Brovane said:
Maduro wasn't the lawful elected leader of VZ.
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Neither is Rodriguez but we sure seem comfortable dealing with her. The US is not at all opposed to dictatorships (in fact we love many repressive dictators) as long as our interests align so I don't find this compelling justification for the action that was taken.
 
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E

eelw

Lifer
Dec 4, 1999
10,375
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HomerJS said:
Neither supports breaking the countries laws and Constitution

Being against starting a war does not equate to supporting Maduro
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Well to be fair, we do label them as pedophile Nazi loving fascists with the lack of condemnation they have against the orange monkey
 
Amused

Amused

Elite Member
Apr 14, 2001
57,501
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MrSquished said:
Yup. The video definitely shows her on the sidewalk. It's amazing people will defend this absolute violation of every basic right we're supposed to have. So sad.
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To be fair, most of the protest was blocking traffic while marching in the streets and ignoring police calls to clear the roadway. This is clearly shown on all the news channels. The protest itself was a march in the streets. She left the street to do the interview and the cops arrested her.

No, I don't think she should have been arrested.

Video of protest here.

 
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MrSquished

MrSquished

Lifer
Jan 14, 2013
26,164
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This is the absolutely pathetic milquetoast rambling statement from the current Democratic establishment leader they have of their highest powered caucus in government, the Senate.

They are completely complicit as far as any opposition party can go for enabling Trump. This is a joke. It is a farce. This is not a good political party. Not for any time but definitely not this time.

www.democrats.senate.gov

Leader Schumer Floor Remarks On The Trump Administration’s Reckless Escalation Of Military Actions In The Caribbean Without Congressional Authorization | Senate Democratic Leadership

Washington, D.C. – Senate Democratic Leader Chuck Schumer (D-NY) today spoke on the Senate floor to condemn Donald Trump’s announcement of a “total...
www.democrats.senate.gov www.democrats.senate.gov
He also made a statement while on C-SPAN I think which was even more pathetic. His caucus is very very troubled and worried! The Democratic party is a caricature at this point.

“Let me be clear, Maduro is an illegitimate dictator, but launching military action without congressional authorization, without a credible plan, but what comes next, is reckless,” he said, noting that the Trump Administration did not clue Congress in on their plans. He then claimed that the Democratic caucus is “very, very just totally, totally, totally troubled, worried about how dangerous this is.”
 
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Brovane

Brovane

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Dec 18, 2001
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brycejones said:
So you’re ok with the US arresting every unlawfully elected leader in the world?
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If the opportunity presents itself and it aligns with US interests. Especially if it is in Central and South America.

K1052 said:
Neither is Rodriguez but we sure seem comfortable dealing with her. The US is not at all opposed to dictatorships (in fact we love many repressive dictators) as long as our interests align so I don't find this compelling justification for the action that was taken.
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She is not, but realistically we have to either put boots on the ground or deal with her. We are opposed to dictatorships that don't align with US interests. Noriega found out the hard way on that. Now Panama is thriving 3+ decades after Democracy was restored. Maduro/VZ found themselves on the wrong side of US interests in South America and was given many opportunities to course correct. Now we get to see if Rodriguez is smarter than Maduro.

IronWing said:
Neither is Trump for what that’s worth.
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There are no election deniers on our side of the aisle. I love how Jeffries suckered in the GOP on that speech. Don't you?
 
K1052

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
53,488
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136
Brovane said:
She is not, but realistically we have to either put boots on the ground or deal with her. We are opposed to dictatorships that don't align with US interests. Noriega found out the hard way on that. Now Panama is thriving 3+ decades after Democracy was restored. Maduro/VZ found themselves on the wrong side of US interests in South America and was given many opportunities to course correct. Now we get to see if Rodriguez is smarter than Maduro.
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The case specifically here is that Marduo wasn't aligned with Marco Rubio's interest not so much he opposed American interests, which many dictatorships do and we don't topple them either. Do I think democracy is about to flourish in VZ and usher in a new era or property and safety for its citizens? No, I do not. Given our track record either the country falls into chaos or the new regime is even more repressive.
 
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Muse

Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
41,180
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K1052 said:
The VZ military stood down knowing it was coming. The only real resistance was from Maduro's Cuban security. Why did Maduro have Cuban personal security you may ask? Protection from internal risks like Cabello so he didn't wake up with his throat slit one morning.

As much as America may not believe in the existence of internal politics of foreign nations they sure do actually exist.
Click to expand...
Well, dozens of Cubans died but no Americans? I do wonder.
 
B

brycejones

Lifer
Oct 18, 2005
30,185
31,183
136
Brovane said:
If the opportunity presents itself and it aligns with US interests. Especially if it is in Central and South America.
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So Team America World Police over the browns we don’t like? Because historically we’ve had no issue partnering with shitty dictators who did what we wanted them to do. If you think this has anything to do with Maduro being a legitimate or illegitimate leader and some desire to restore democracy I would like to discuss with you a unique opportunity to purchase beachfront property in Florida.
 
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Jaskalas

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
36,228
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Brovane said:
Maduro wasn't the lawful elected leader of VZ.
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MAGA Nazis kept saying the same thing. THE SAME THING, about President Biden.
Then they tried to overthrow the US government and overturn a US election by force.

And the problem with your pro Nazi propaganda, is that Trump and co are threatening SEVERAL countries. Therefore we know the specifics do not matter. The Nazis are the problem.
 
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Muse

Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
41,180
10,377
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The shock of kidnapping of Maduro and wife... It's been revealed with clarity that this action was planned for months. It was kept secret. One may ask: what further military escapades are in this mis-adminstration's secret pipelines currently? They're outwardly floating invasion of Greenland, also invading Mexico.

Miller's endorsing imperialism as a legitimate M.O. for his boss.

Stephen Miller Asserts U.S. Has Right to Take Greenland​

In a CNN interview, the Trump aide also echoed the president’s intent to run Venezuela as he laid out a case for the United States to control weaker states by flexing its military might.

----> Link to current article at The New York Times is PAYWALL PENETRATING for 14 days, i.e. until 01/20/2026:

 
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Brovane

Brovane

Diamond Member
Dec 18, 2001
6,492
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K1052 said:
The case specifically here is that Marduo wasn't aligned with Marco Rubio's interest not so much he opposed American interests, which many dictatorships do and we don't topple them either. Do I think democracy is about to flourish in VZ and usher in a new era or property and safety for its citizens? No, I do not. Given our track record either the country falls into chaos or the new regime is even more repressive.
Click to expand...

Remember, Democrats also called for Maduro being ousted, just not using physical force. Maduro was charged in 2020 and the Biden Administration never withdrew those charges during his term in office and neither did his administration withdraw the bounty for his arrest. I would say he wasn't aligned with US interests. I would also agree with you that I doubt that the Trump has a plan nor the competency to bring in a Democratic government in VZ. This has a high likelihood of going sideways.


brycejones said:
So Team America World Police over the browns we don’t like? Because historically we’ve had no issue partnering with shitty dictators who did what we wanted them to do. If you think this has anything to do with Maduro being a legitimate or illegitimate leader and some desire to restore democracy uphill would like to discuss with you a unique opportune beachfront property in Florida.
Click to expand...

Well team America has a long history of doing that in central and south America. As I said earlier, Maduro found himself no longer aligned with US interests and didn't take the strong hints to course correct.

It was President Theodore Roosevelt who said "Speak softly and carry a big stick; you will go far".
 
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