[VC]AMD Radeon R9 390X WCE Speculation Thread

[AtenRa]

you can buy old tech like titanx or the new tech with amd 390x with hbm and if one games with eyefinity and 4k it seems plausible the new tech are a better fit.

Old tech after 2-3 months ??

 

[destrekor]

I think it's best to compare the 390 (non-X) to the 980, that's the price level in which it will be competing.

The 390X will clearly be very close to the Titan X, and quite likely to best it. Price it up there, get AMD some money so they can really push the competition for the next few generations.

The 390 will be best served by comparing it to the 980, and subsequently completely owning the 980. The 980 will be cut down in price, but if the 980 is $399 and the 390 is $450-499 and has a 15% performance advantage, that's a pretty good place to be.

It may compete favorably with a partially-disabled GM200, which would make it interesting to see how Nvidia prices that card if the 390 is favorably priced.

 

[DownTheSky]

I think it's best to compare the 390 (non-X) to the 980, that's the price level in which it will be competing.
.

Errr.. No. That's the 380X. It's 380X battling GTX 980, and 380 vs GTX 970.

I'd think people would bother to read at least couple of pages before posting.

 

[therealnickdanger]

So does anyone know yet... DisplayPort 1.3?

 

[ShintaiDK]

So does anyone know yet... DisplayPort 1.3?

Very unlikely.

Just look at HDMI 2.0 adoption that was finished much sooner. Carrizo(unreleased) will have it and DP1.2a.

If the adoption rate is the same, the first DP1.3 card will come in the very end of the year or next year.

 

[therealnickdanger]

Very unlikely.

Just look at HDMI 2.0 adoption that was finished much sooner. Carrizo(unreleased) will have it and DP1.2a.

If the adoption rate is the same, the first DP1.3 card will come in the very end of the year or next year.

I'm sure that you are correct, but that's disappointing somewhat. We already know that 4K over 60fps is possible in some games with Titan X and most other high-end CF/SLI setups. I don't buy GPUs very often, so it's got to last for a long time and I want this to be my 4K upgrade cycle... with a 120Hz 4K display... Oh well, maybe next time.

 

[destrekor]

Errr.. No. That's the 380X. It's 380X battling GTX 980, and 380 vs GTX 970.

I'd think people would bother to read at least couple of pages before posting.

I'm not stating what IS the case, I said what SHOULD be the case, at least for marketing purposes.

I doubt the 380X will match the 980, it will probably lag behind, if only barely.

After 6 months or longer, and their official answer to the 980 is the 380X, and it only barely competes with it in performance, that's just plain bad. AMD is unlikely to market the 380X against the 980 directly or in price, though that won't stop gamers from arguing that is the card it is competing against.

Label the 390 as the competitor to the 980, price it at the 980's current price slot, out-compete it by a fair bit, and you've got a winning marketing strategy. The 390X can handle both the Titan and any future GTX 9## releases of the GM200. They don't need to have a card for every single crazy tier Nvidia makes when they introduce the Titan as basically a gaming brand now. The 780 Ti was for all intents and purposes a fully-enabled GK110, except it had neutered DP performance. The Titan X is basically the replacement for the 780 Ti. If they release future versions of the GM200 without the Titan moniker, it really won't be any different, they can't neuter compute performance any further, or rather I would bet they don't.

Regardless, a GM200 with any branding is what the 390X is squaring up against. It need not be the 390X against the Titan, 390 against any cut-down GM200, and so on and so forth. This can be a big marketing win, big time, if they come up shooting down the Titan, at a healthy discount, and continue to square up against any upcoming GM200-based cards, be they cut down or enhanced revisions.

Put it this way, with assumed pricing levels:
390X launches at $700-750. Out-performs $999 GTX Titan X.
390 launches at $550. Out-performs $550 GTX 980.
380X launches at $350-400. Compares favorably to GTX 980, out-performs GTX 970.
380 launches at $250-300. Matches or out-performs GTX 970.

This causes price adjustments by Nvidia, quite likely.
GTX Titan X likely remains at $999 because Titan.
GTX 980 drops to $400-450, between the 380X and 390, or closer to the 380X.
GTX 970 drops to $250 to compete more favorably against the pricing of the 380.

I find this is likely to cause one of two scenarios:

1)
---a: Nvidia launches cut-down GM200 as 980 Ti or 985 or 990.
---b: a full-fat GM200, perhaps tweaked minimally, launches as 985/990, 985 Ti, or 990 Ti, respectfully, to compare with the above

Pricing could be anything, but I'd wager a cut-down GM200 around $550-600, with a full-fat GM200 numbered-series card around $700.

Neither would likely dethrone the 390X in performance, and may merely cause a subtle drop in price by AMD, but unlikely. The cut-down GM200 is likely to be around the performance of the 390, and would be matched in price in this scenario. The fully-enabled GM200 in-between that and the Titan X would still be out-gunned by the 390X. AMD would feel little pressure to change the pricing structure, but could drop $50 just to entice further sales.

2)
---a: Nvidia launches a cut-down GM200 as a 980 Ti, 985, or 990
---b: A new GM200 revision is released as Titan X^2 (squared) or something, [note: I feel they're out of options, Y is goofy and Z is already used. I expect the next generation they'll follow suit with the "Titan (2016)" or "Titan (3rd Gen)" or "Titan One" theme that is all the rage these days (with later years to then have "Titan One (2nd Gen)" )]

I'd still see the cut-down GM200 at $550-600. Titan X would drop to $700-750. New Titan would take the $999 spot.


This all assumes that the industry rumors about the 390X besting the Titan X remains true. I don't think Nvidia will ever see their top-end card lower in price than AMD's top card, even if AMD bests them. Nvidia would likely rely on brand strength to keep revenue up, and I wouldn't blame them because they'd still get sales. People will have their reasons.

FWIW, I find it more likely that we'd see the first scenario I depicted. Nvidia will try to compete but not at a significant loss of revenue. I would even expect Nvidia to still have higher prices than I suggested for an images 985 and the follow-up 985 Ti.

If we see a dual-GPU GM200, I also wouldn't doubt if we see Nvidia resort to using an AIO/CLC as the reference cooler, based on how it seems that Nvidia's previously radically-successful reference cooler can barely handle a single GM200. They could find some way to do like PowerCooler and have a massive air-cooler, but I wouldn't doubt that as a reference, especially completely open-air as opposed to blower or partial blower, not from Nvidia. That could give legitimacy to any who balk at any Water Cooled Editions.

In the end, even though I've often preferred Nvidia GPUs for the past few generations, not counting this one, I earnestly hope AMD can bring this Titan-busting 390X. I do hope that the performance leaks we have seen is not exclusive to a supposed Water Cooled Edition, and see them release a lesser-version as the base 390X. If anything, hopefully they are the same but the WCE is simply, well, the WCE, potentially promising the potential for higher OCs. If that is the case, I think this will help cause the industry to slowly get back to releasing high-end GPUs at more modest levels with very very good GPUs no more than $500, promising 80% of the top-end cards.

 

[Silverforce11]

I doubt the 380X will match the 980, it will probably lag behind, if only barely.

After 6 months or longer, and their official answer to the 980 is the 380X, and it only barely competes with it in performance, that's just plain bad. AMD is unlikely to market the 380X against the 980 directly or in price, though that won't stop gamers from arguing that is the card it is competing against.

What if it beats it by 10% at similar power use?

 

[destrekor]

What if it beats it by 10% at similar power use?

Regardless of how well it performs, I'd expect them to market it as I laid out. It makes their tier look far more favorable.

Do note I wasn't saying that I think the 380X, by barely competing or out-competing the 980, is bad. Because the 380X, 390, and 390X will likely be wonderful. I meant it would be bad in the sense that marketing the 380X as the answer to the 980 just doesn't sit right.

But you did bring up a good point - the 390 isn't likely to have a significant power draw difference compared to the fully-enabled 390X. The 380X could have significant power savings.

So perhaps it could be seen as just about the 980, perhaps barely better, and less power draw either way, all for less money than the 980. And then you can beat the 980 if you don't mind the extra power, at about the same price as the 980. That's a win-win consumer choice right there and a terrific place for AMD to be in. But it would still be weird to market the 390 as anything other than the proper answer to the 980, even though when comparing the actual nature of the chip sizes and position, the likely 380X is physically the 980's match at the same weight-class, being a fully-enabled smaller chip instead of a cut-down big-chip.

 

[Silverforce11]

There has to be a new chip filling in that segment because R390X is rumored to be much faster than R290X. The leak of the 390 (non X) 3dMark video run would actually put it faster than Titan X in games with its relative score in that synthetic. That means the 390 would be competing against cut down custom high-clocked AIB GM200 (980ti).

370X is supposedly 780 class performance at entry-level power use, that's the new "mainstream"! Thus the mid-range chip has to be around 980 or slightly above.

Now, all these leaks could be completely wrong and AMD release duds. But I'm leaning towards it being real given journalists & developers who have first hand experience seeing 390X in action have been saying.

Simply put, Tonga full die rebrand has no place in such a lineup, it's slower than 370X and very power hungry.

What we haven't seen leaks of so far though, is the mid-range chip.

 

[Enigmoid]

---b: A new GM200 revision is released as Titan X^2 (squared) or something, [note: I feel they're out of options, Y is goofy and Z is already used. I expect the next generation they'll follow suit with the "Titan (2016)" or "Titan (3rd Gen)" or "Titan One" theme that is all the rage these days (with later years to then have "Titan One (2nd Gen)" )]

Titan Y : The "Why is this so expensive card."

 

[Elfear]

Titan Y : The "Why is this so expensive card."

:biggrin: Nice.

 

[DownTheSky]

I have a feeling this will be GOOD.

 

[Erenhardt]

Titan Y : The "Why is this so expensive card."

Titan X-pensive is not much better name