Valve publishes their own Linux Distribution

[cmdrdredd]

If microsoft wants to abandon the desktop why make the desktop tile the only one you can supersize to stick out more than any other tile on the screen to make it easier to find for people who so very much hate metro (which they cannot even call metro thanks to some german company who sued).

Anyway...every major title released in the past few years has not used openGL. So I don't see how there could possibly be a big library. Further, Sony Microsoft and Nintendo have big exclusives backing them. Valve won't have that clout with a Linux OS. Adoption rate will be low.

 

[dougp]

Butthurt that your most played game is Just Cause 2 with only 19.2 hrs on record?

Uh, Steam doesn't keep track of the games you play prior to March of 2009 - which was 4 years ago, or 2 years after TF2 came out, 5 years after CS:S & HL2 came out. Need I go on?

I own almost twice as many games as you do, and played almost 4x the amount in the past two weeks as you.

You started the childish argument, not any of us. You have no substance other than your insistent sucking-off of Valve and Newell. It's funny that most of us who don't think this is a good idea has never put down Valve for what they've done - rather, we refuse to give them the false praise that you and countless others have done while you lambasting a platform that has served you and countless other "gamers" for well over two decades.

You still have no response to me for L4D or Portal, two franchises you give credit falsely to Valve for - shall I throw TF and CS into the mix? Both of which are mods that started out on Quake?

 

[Texashiker]

you STILL have yet to give any reasons why anything Valve has done was innovative

Ok, I will entertain your game for a little while.

Lets start from the beginning with half-life. HL blew everything else in the late 1990s out the water. while id was holding onto the old "find the key" game play, valve was cutting edge.

HL2 with a close to reality physics engine.

But what really brought PC gaming out of the stone age was steam

Friends list
Cheap games with regular discounts
Integrated chat
Automatic updates - no more having to find updates for dozens of games

But I dont guess any of that matters to you?

you think Windows 8 sucks besides some anecdotal evidence of your old mother being technologically ignorant and refusing to learn new things

Come back when you are in your 60s. heck, come back when you get in your 40s.

Uh, Steam doesn't keep track of the games you play prior to March of 2009 - which was 4 years ago, or 2 years after TF2 came out, 5 years after CS:S & HL2 came out. Need I go on?

I own almost twice as many games as you do, and played almost 4x the amount in the past two weeks as you.

I took a break for a little bit. Up until a couple of weeks ago I had a steam rating of 10. After all, you dont get to 1,800 hours in l4d2 playing 2 hours a week.

I dont know how many thousands of hours I lost when steam cleared all of the hours, because I played TFC steady for about 4 - 5 years.

You started the childish argument, not any of us.

What argument? That I think steam going to linux is a good idea?

 

[dougp]

Ok, I will entertain your game for a little while.

Lets start from the beginning with half-life. HL blew everything else in the late 1990s out the water. while id was holding onto the old "find the key" game play, valve was cutting edge.

HL2 with a close to reality physics engine.

But what really brought PC gaming out of the stone age was steam

Friends list
Cheap games with regular discounts
Integrated chat
Automatic updates - no more having to find updates for dozens of games

But I dont guess any of that matters to you?.

Xfire - released in 2003. Gamespy (or QSpy) - released in 1996. MPlayer.com - released in 1996.

And that's just the beginning - all of which had friends lists. Integrated chat - into what, the game itself? That existed long before any Valve products. Or do you mean the shift-tab experience in Steam? Yeah, that didn't exist when it launched.

So what did it bring out of your list, cheap games and automatic updates? Don't you remember when Valve was lambasted by a few publishers for their gaming prices? Hell, they're not the only players in the game when it comes to that - but you're right, it's a benefit. To the detriment of the developers, no?

Automatic updates? Yeah, those are nice as well - except I remember when they broke a few games, like Day of Defeat, and even CS. Going back to previous versions of games? A complete pain in the ass.

Come back when you are in your 60s. heck, come back when you get in your 40s.

If someone has issues with Windows 8, then they'd have an issue with Linux. While I get your argument in regards to Modern UI, it's easily overcome with freeware.

I took a break for a little bit. Up until a couple of weeks ago I had a steam rating of 10. After all, you dont get to 1,800 hours in l4d2 playing 2 hours a week.

I dont know how many thousands of hours I lost when steam cleared all of the hours, because I played TFC steady for about 4 - 5 years.

What argument? That I think steam going to linux is a good idea?

I don't know how many hours I lost when ... OH WAIT, WHEN THEY DIDN'T TRACK SHIT.

The argument was the ridiculous e-peen of Steam profiles that you started with smackababy.

 

[Nintendesert]

What a joke. WhaaWhaa Valve's still scared and crying about all the other digital distribution services on Windows. They want to lock gamers into the Valve OS to prevent Origin/GS/Blizzard/UPlay/Amazon from competing with Valves Steam and eating up their market share. You all are fools if you think these moves are anything other than cash grabs and anti-competitive shenanigans by Valve.

 

[Texashiker]

Xfire - released in 2003. Gamespy (or QSpy) - released in 1996. MPlayer.com - released in 1996.

And that's just the beginning - all of which had friends lists. Integrated chat - into what, the game itself? That existed long before any Valve products. Or do you mean the shift-tab experience in Steam? Yeah, that didn't exist when it launched.

Automatic updates? Yeah, those are nice as well - except I remember when they broke a few games, like Day of Defeat, and even CS. Going back to previous versions of games? A complete pain in the ass.

Q-spy, gamespy, xfire,,,, none of them offered a complete all in one package like what steam offers.

Saved config in steam cloud, gifting of games, being able to store games so they can be gifted later,,,,.

I don't know how many hours I lost when ... OH WAIT, WHEN THEY DIDN'T TRACK SHIT.

The argument was the ridiculous e-peen of Steam profiles that you started with smackababy.

There was tracking pre 2008 or 2009,,, whenever steam did the wipe.

 

[dougp]

Q-spy, gamespy, xfire,,,, none of them offered a complete all in one package like what steam offers.

Saved config in steam cloud, gifting of games, being able to store games so they can be gifted later,,,,.

And Steam didn't either, when it launched. Saved config? Big whoop, backup your configs - not really that hard. It's not something I've ever considered a benefit of Steam - outside of saved games in the cloud, and I don't use multiple PCs for Steam, their cloud concept is no different than Blizzard saving your key configs for your account. And like most hardcore gamers, I follow the good practice of backing up my saves.

As for gifting of games, only done at purchase. If only I could go to a store and purchase something, and then hand it to someone. Thanks for the novel concept, Valve - I didn't know this was possible!

 

[Texashiker]

As for gifting of games, only done at purchase. If only I could go to a store and purchase something, and then hand it to someone. Thanks for the novel concept, Valve - I didn't know this was possible!

So you are going to drive 2 or 3 hours to give someone a game?

Or maybe pay amazon to deliver the package for you?

I gifted a buddy of mine the l4d package, which was on sale for 75% off. He lives 90 miles away. try to order a game from walmart or amazon for 75% off and get it delivered for free. Oh wait, walmart does not even carry valve games anymore.

 

[CottonRabbit]

The last thing PC gaming needs is fragmentation and an entire OS dedicated to peddling one company's DRM. Unfortunately, it seems like most people prefer the walled garden approach to digital distribution.

 

[theevilsharpie]

What a joke. WhaaWhaa Valve's still scared and crying about all the other digital distribution services on Windows. They want to lock gamers into the Valve OS to prevent Origin/GS/Blizzard/UPlay/Amazon from competing with Valves Steam and eating up their market share. You all are fools if you think these moves are anything other than cash grabs and anti-competitive shenanigans by Valve.

I highly doubt Valve cares about the various upstart 3rd party distribution networks that have cropped up. They've successfully competed against Origin, Impulse, GOG, Windows Marketplace, etc. without much effort, and they're able to do so because they can compete on a level playing field. However, when the platform vendor itself begins to compete with its partners, and that vendor has the capability of locking out competitors, well... there's no competing with that.

 

[dougp]

I highly doubt Valve cares about the various upstart 3rd party distribution networks that have cropped up. They've successfully competed against Origin, Impulse, GOG, Windows Marketplace, etc. without much effort, and they're able to do so because they can compete on a level playing field. However, when the platform vendor itself begins to compete with its partners, and that vendor has the capability of locking out competitors, well... there's no competing with that.

I would argue that GOG and Steam are not on the same playing field. GOG enables you to install any of their games on the most recent version of Windows and function, Steam does not offer that.

 

[dougp]

So you are going to drive 2 or 3 hours to give someone a game?

Or maybe pay amazon to deliver the package for you?

I gifted a buddy of mine the l4d package, which was on sale for 75% off. He lives 90 miles away. try to order a game from walmart or amazon for 75% off and get it delivered for free.

You're right, Amazon never offers downloadable games or sales on such titles.

At all.

 

[cmdrdredd]

I have 182hours in Skyrim, just finished 14 in tomb raider, 18 in borderlands 2, 9 in dishonored, 31 hours in Crysis 2, 15 in Darksiders, 18 in Darksiders 2, 21 in Deus Ex: HR, 41 in GTA: Episodes from liberty city, 7 in Metro 2033, 23 in RAGE, 23 in Sleeping Dogs, 27 in The Witcher 2. Don't ask me how or why but it says 322 hours for Far Cry 3 and I know that isn't right at all. No way.

What did I win lol.

 

[irishScott]

If microsoft wants to abandon the desktop why make the desktop tile the only one you can supersize to stick out more than any other tile on the screen to make it easier to find for people who so very much hate metro (which they cannot even call metro thanks to some german company who sued).

Anyway...every major title released in the past few years has not used openGL. So I don't see how there could possibly be a big library. Further, Sony Microsoft and Nintendo have big exclusives backing them. Valve won't have that clout with a Linux OS. Adoption rate will be low.

Because Microsoft isn't completely stupid. There's still a large market for Desktops, but it's stagnant. It's natural for Microsoft to want to leave Desktops behind in favor of mobile, but given the size of the market it'll have to be gradual.

Likewise if Gabe's games-on-linux idea is going to succeed, its sucess will be gradual. No it won't support BF, CoD, Madden and other AAA titans out of the box (except for Valve games of course), but the indie market has made huge strides in the last few years, in no small part due to steam. It's also growing with no end in sight, especially with the advent of kickstarter and Unity. That's where things will start.

As for exclusives, I wonder if the reason Valve is delaying HL3 is to release it in conjunction with their signature steam box. I don't see Valve perpetually restricting it to the steam box, but a 6 month steam-box exclusive or something similar could very well spur adoption.

The sole arbitrating factor of steam box adoption IMO will be price. If it's more expensive than every other console with a miniscule starting lineup, it will fail. To that end I could see Valve using some of its massive fortune to subsidize initial sales.

It's no doubt a tough up-hill battle, but so long as one doesn't expect an overnight blockbuster, quite a possible one IMO.

 

[Texashiker]

And Steam didn't either, when it launched. Saved config? Big whoop, backup your configs - not really that hard. It's not something I've ever considered a benefit of Steam

A single pixel does not make a picture

You're right, Amazon never offers downloadable games or sales on such titles.

At all.

You said you were going to hand the game to someone. So gifting a game is no big deal. Go buy the l4d bundle at a store at 75% off and go hand it to a friend who lives 100+ miles away.

You seem to be attacking steam on every point, and that is why I did not want to get this discussion started.

All of those points as a whole is what makes steam a great platform.

Its not just the chat, or just the gifting, or just the automatic updates, or just being able to upload screen shots, or just the steam workshop,,,, its all of those points together.

 

[cmdrdredd]

Because Microsoft isn't completely stupid. There's still a large market for Desktops, but it's largely stagnant. It's natural for Microsoft to want to leave Desktops behind in favor of mobile, but given the size of the market it'll have to be gradual.

Likewise if Gabe's games-on-linux idea is going to succeed, its sucess will be gradual. No it won't support BF, CoD, Madden and other AAA titans out of the box (except for Valve games of course), but the indie market has made huge strides in the last few years, in no small part due to steam. It's also growing with no end in sight, especially with the advent of kickstarter and Unity. That's where things will start.

As for exclusives, I wonder if the reason Valve is delaying HL3 is to release it in conjunction with their signature steam box. I don't see Valve perpetually restricting it to the steam box, but a 6 month steam-box exclusive or something similar could very well spur adoption.

The sole arbitrating factor of steam box adoption IMO will be price. If it's more expensive than every other console with a miniscule starting lineup, it will fail. To that end I could see Valve using some of its massive fortune to subsidize initial sales.

It's no doubt a tough up-hill battle, but so long as one doesn't expect an overnight blockbuster, quite a possible one IMO.

I understand what you are trying to say, but then I don't see enough people interested in Indie games to buy a whole box and/or adopt a new OS for it. Sony is going to offer Self Publish on PSN for indie developers as well. You can build a game and put it on PSN without needing to be greenlighted. I do not think Half-Life has the same following it once did. Now you're competing for the attention of the CoD kids, Halo fanboys (of which I am one I will admit), and Battlefield's armchair soldiers. I don't know if HL3 would be enough for them. HL3 or HL2 EP3 should have been released years and years ago. They had an unfinished story and it's my opinion that they spit in the face of all their fans who supported their episode packs. So there's that.

 

[dougp]

A single pixel does not make a picture



You said you were going to hand the game to someone. So gifting a game is no big deal.

You seem to be attacking steam on every point, and that is why I did not want to get this discussion started.

All of those points as a whole is what makes steam a great platform.

Its not just the chat, or just the gifting, or just the automatic updates, or just being able to upload screen shots, or just the steam workshop,,,, its all of those points together.

You implied that without Steam, none of those features would exist in the community.

Also, case in point, your argument for Steam is the exact argument you're making against Windows and for Valve's platform-on-OS - you don't want all your eggs in one basket, a monopoly on an environment if you will. :ninja:

:whiste:

 

[irishScott]

I understand what you are trying to say, but then I don't see enough people interested in Indie games to buy a whole box and/or adopt a new OS for it. Sony is going to offer Self Publish on PSN for indie developers as well. You can build a game and put it on PSN without needing to be greenlighted. I do not think Half-Life has the same following it once did. Now you're competing for the attention of the CoD kids, Halo fanboys (of which I am one I will admit), and Battlefield's armchair soldiers. I don't know if HL3 would be enough for them. HL3 or HL2 EP3 should have been released years and years ago. They had an unfinished story and it's my opinion that they spit in the face of all their fans who supported their episode packs. So there's that.

Well they wouldn't have to adopt a new OS, all steam games currently made for linux work on steam's linux version. You buy the game on steam and you can play it on any compatible operating system.

As for population, I wouldn't have thought there would be a lot of demand to play android games on a TV screen with a controller, but the OUYA's proved that wrong so far.

The Sony self-publishing thing is a good point, Valve may very well have to rethink greenlight to compete with it. But remember that many indie developers already try to release on Steam to get on the PC, so I can see them porting their game to linux to gain access to the steam-box market; assuming the steam box has even marginal success.

Even if HL3 doesn't do it by itself (although I think it could produce a toe-hold for the steam box if nothing else), if the steam box is successful in the indie niche, eventually I can see it making enough money (given that indie games are a growing market) to gain the notice of other big developers, who might start porting AAA titles to further their profits.

In most companies' hands I'd say it's doomed to failure, but Valve is a very agile company and just might be smart enough to pull it off. I wish they'd release more sales numbers (specifically how much money steam is currently making from linux-compatible games) to give us a better idea of the odds. Guess we'll see in a year or two.

 

[Kalmah]

A steambox packaged with Occulus Rift, HL3 and Star Citizen(which is suppose to have full occulus rift support) sounds pretty tasty to me. If I'm not mistaken I think Linux support was part of one of the goals that was reached for Star Citizen anyways.

 

[smackababy]

Ok, I will entertain your game for a little while.

Lets start from the beginning with half-life. HL blew everything else in the late 1990s out the water. while id was holding onto the old "find the key" game play, valve was cutting edge.

HL2 with a close to reality physics engine.

But what really brought PC gaming out of the stone age was steam

Friends list
Cheap games with regular discounts
Integrated chat
Automatic updates - no more having to find updates for dozens of games

But I dont guess any of that matters to you?

None of these are innovative. Especially sales. Steam didn't invent sales, and they damn sure didn't innovate them. Automatic updates? Windows had that before Steam, I'm sure.
Integrated chat? The chat isn't integrated into anything. It is a DX injection overlay. It has the same effect, along with friends list, that ICQ had for me. I just had to Alt Tab to give up control, not Shift Tab.

Cloud saving? Sorry, I still have my UO macros backed up on a floppy from 1997. So, Steam really didn't innovate anything apparently.

Now HL1, innovated by having somewhat realistic physics from a modified game engine. Source engine didn't innovate, it just improved on that. And we still got the same lame ass, build a see-saw "puzzles" in HL2 despite the physics being better. I said HL1 was innovative and it was 15 years ago. Valve hasn't "done more for PC gaming than any other company" as you claim.

And you still haven't addressed the L4D being innovative claim.

 

[theevilsharpie]

Automatic updates? Windows had that before Steam, I'm sure.
Integrated chat? The chat isn't integrated into anything. It is a DX injection overlay. It has the same effect, along with friends list, that ICQ had for me. I just had to Alt Tab to give up control, not Shift Tab.

If you think that automatic game updates, ICQ, or saves backed up to floppies are any replacements whatsoever for the facilities that Steam offers, you're either incredibly dense, or arguing for the sake of arguing.

 

[smackababy]

If you think that automatic game updates, ICQ, or saves backed up to floppies are any replacements whatsoever for the facilities that Steam offers, you're either incredibly dense, or arguing for the sake of arguing.

I am not saying they are replacements, I am saying Steam did not innovate. It was a natural progressing from backing up saves manually, to having a game do it automatically, to a service storing them on a server somewhere for you. They did not invent "saving to the cloud." And ICQ was pretty close to the functionality Steam's friend and chat system has with the exception of joining and inviting. It is not integrated into games, except maybe Dota 2. It is just an overlay that takes control from the game. Alt Tab does the identical thing, except you can't see the game being rendered.

 

[theevilsharpie]

I am not saying they are replacements, I am saying Steam did not innovate. It was a natural progressing from backing up saves manually, to having a game do it automatically, to a service storing them on a server somewhere for you. They did not invent "saving to the cloud." And ICQ was pretty close to the functionality Steam's friend and chat system has with the exception of joining and inviting. It is not integrated into games, except maybe Dota 2. It is just an overlay that takes control from the game. Alt Tab does the identical thing, except you can't see the game being rendered.

While I do think Valve has done a lot for the PC gaming world, I'm not one of the people claiming that Valve is innovative. Rather, Valve's "special sauce" is more along the lines of taking individual ideas, applying Apple-style polish and execution, and then responding to market feedback as needed to make improvements that don't alienate the community. Using your own example, while Steam may not be blazing new ground in things like chat or saving, Valve seems to be able to package them up in a slick, unobtrusive, and easy to use manner, which is something that past and present competitors seem to struggle with. While you may be able to argue that Valve isn't innovative, you'll have a hard time arguing Valve's ability to execute on their initiatives.

Circling that thought back to the subject of this thread, Linux gaming has been done before, but Valve has the financial resources, talent, market power, partnerships, and the overall ability to "get things done" that other attempts lacked. It's too early to say if Valve will be succeed or fail, but Valve has a better chance of succeeding than any other company I can think of, and Valve is pushing their effort at a time when the market seems as open as it's ever been to a change.

 

[irishScott]

I am not saying they are replacements, I am saying Steam did not innovate. It was a natural progressing from backing up saves manually, to having a game do it automatically, to a service storing them on a server somewhere for you. They did not invent "saving to the cloud." And ICQ was pretty close to the functionality Steam's friend and chat system has with the exception of joining and inviting. It is not integrated into games, except maybe Dota 2. It is just an overlay that takes control from the game. Alt Tab does the identical thing, except you can't see the game being rendered.

Alright, what would you put forth as examples of gaming "innovation"? (this should be good)

 

[Kalmah]

None of these are innovative. Especially sales. Steam didn't invent sales, and they damn sure didn't innovate them. Automatic updates? Windows had that before Steam, I'm sure.
Integrated chat? The chat isn't integrated into anything. It is a DX injection overlay. It has the same effect, along with friends list, that ICQ had for me. I just had to Alt Tab to give up control, not Shift Tab.

Cloud saving? Sorry, I still have my UO macros backed up on a floppy from 1997. So, Steam really didn't innovate anything apparently.

Now HL1, innovated by having somewhat realistic physics from a modified game engine. Source engine didn't innovate, it just improved on that. And we still got the same lame ass, build a see-saw "puzzles" in HL2 despite the physics being better. I said HL1 was innovative and it was 15 years ago. Valve hasn't "done more for PC gaming than any other company" as you claim.

And you still haven't addressed the L4D being innovative claim.

Well, if I install a game that doesn't exist on Steam I have to go find updates that usually can't even be found on the official websites after the game has been out for years. Many games have 4,5,6, 7... or more updates. That all have to be installed in a specific order. And there is usually little documentation. Installing an old game can take up to nearly 3 hours in some instances. You also have to figure out if updates include previous updates or not. Sometimes you'll have v1, v2, v3, v4 then v5 includes 3 and 4, but you still have to install v1 and v2 then skip right to v5 so that you can install v6 then v8 because it includes v7.... lol you get the idea. I've bought games on Steam that I already own just to avoid this shit.

If Valve wants Steam on Linux they can put it on Linux and if McDonalds wants pickles on a double cheeseburger they can put pickles on it. I don't care, I can pick them off just as I can avoid Linux if I would like. It gives me the option to have pickles, not mandates it.