US War Crime?

[Bozo Galora]

http://www.khilafah.com/home/c...cumentID=10672&TagID=2

 

[raildogg]

I really getting sick of all this US bashing. Lets get real.

We are fighting the scum of the earth terrorists over there, if our soldiers deem those scum as dangerous I have no problem with them destroying the terrorist. Do they show mercy when they kidnap American or any other nation's hostages? I think not.

We need to obliterate the enemy.

 

[OS]

Originally posted by: raildogg
I really getting sick of all this US bashing. Lets get real.

We are fighting the scum of the earth terrorists over there, if our soldiers deem those scum as dangerous I have no problem with them destroying the terrorist. Do they show mercy when they kidnap American or any other nation's hostages? I think not.

We need to obliterate the enemy.

that's kind of nice how we're giving the iraqis democracy, freedom and all that nice, warm fluffy stuff but no due process.

 

[Yzzim]

Anyone have the story behind the pictures? Was it an execution or did the prisoner try to get away and/or attack one of the soldiers? No need to pass judgement until we have the story behind the pictures.

 

[Bozo Galora]

US soldiers blow brains of mother onto 11 year old daughter

(Warning - Disturing images)

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared...in_tal_afar/html/1.stm
(11 pics)

 

[Yzzim]

Originally posted by: Bozo Galora
US soldiers blow brains of mother onto 11 year old daughter

(Warning - Disturing images)

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared...in_tal_afar/html/1.stm
(11 pics)

US soldiers in Iraq approach a car after opening fire when it failed to stop at a checkpoint. Despite warning shots it continued to drive towards their dusk patrol in Tal Afar on 18 January.

A US military statement said troops trying to stop the car used hand signals and fired warning shots before firing directly at the car, killing the driver and front seat passenger.

That's not a war crime, that's self defense. I saw this on TV and I believe the reporter said there had been 2-3 other car bombs in this area earlier in the week. They waved their hands and fired warning shots and the car still did not stop. There's nothing wrong with self defense.

 

[CycloWizard]

Originally posted by: Yzzim
That's not a war crime, that's self defense. I saw this on TV and I believe the reporter said there had been 2-3 other car bombs in this area earlier in the week. They waved their hands and fired warning shots and the car still did not stop. There's nothing wrong with self defense.

You'd get the same treatment at a military base stateside if you didn't stop at the gate. At least, I assume they're wielding M-16s or M-4s for a reason - never actually saw anyone just drive through the gate.

 

[Bozo Galora]

http://www.indiemediamagazine..../album01/52018185_10_l

 

[gutharius]

Originally posted by: raildogg
I really getting sick of all this US bashing. Lets get real.

We are fighting the scum of the earth terrorists over there, if our soldiers deem those scum as dangerous I have no problem with them destroying the terrorist. Do they show mercy when they kidnap American or any other nation's hostages? I think not.

We need to obliterate the enemy.

Based on this assessment, we might as well kill this girl now. As when she grows up she SURE AS HELL will be a terrorist and will certainly want to avenge her mothers brutal slaying by a US marine. See how hate only begets more hate? Invading and killing has never solved anything unless you are willing to commit genocide to wipe out the entire culture giving birth to the reason you are fighting a particular cause or ideology.

 

[maluckey]

CycloWizard,

As far as seeing gate runners....

I have seen gate runners running into Mexico die in a hail of bullets. I saw a gate runners on a military base shot at.

It's widely known by the entire world that United States Soldiers speak English, not Farsi, Arabic etc. It is universally accepted that when an official waves a gun at you you cease and desist what you are doing. It is universally known that when you approach someone and they point a gun at you, they are not saying "come closer!". It is also widely recognized that United States Foroces are attacked by car bombers and suicide on a regular basis.

Put all the above together and you see the picture of self-defense.

If the average Joe knows all this, then the dead woman driver in the second link is either the most stupid person on earth and needed to die to prevent spreading her genes, or she is overly arrogant and self centered and likely though that the laws, rules and regulations, not to mention common sense and imagination, did not aply to her. Perhaps there is a third explanation...perhaps she wished to kill a soldier that day, and figured they would send her to Allah. She got her wish.

 

[Bowfinger]

Originally posted by: raildogg
I really getting sick of all this US bashing. Lets get real.

We are fighting the scum of the earth terrorists over there, if our soldiers deem those scum as dangerous I have no problem with them destroying the terrorist. Do they show mercy when they kidnap American or any other nation's hostages? I think not.

We need to obliterate the enemy.

(I thought we were there to liberate this "enemy" rather than obliterate them, but no matter.)

Can you tell me what this "enemy" did to us that warrants our "obliterating" them? More specifically, we are killing by the thousands people who, for the most part, are just like you and me, just like your family and firends. Some are defending their country; many, many more are simply innocent bystanders, in the wrong place at the wrong time. What did these patriots and innocents do to us before we invaded their country that justifies their wholesale "obliteration" at our hands?

(Hint: Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11.)

Although there are exceptions, by and large, these people you want to "obliterate" have nothing to do with terrorism. They were peacefully minding their own business, going to work or school, raising a family, trying to have a nice life, when we unilaterally turned their world into hell. No matter how much you can rationalize why Hussein was a bad man who needed to go, rememebr he's sitting safe in a cell somewhere while we're out slaughtering the men, women, and children who were unfortunate to be living under his rule. We created this situation; consequently, we need to set the bar higher than "obliterate the enemy."

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: Bowfinger

Originally posted by: raildogg
I really getting sick of all this US bashing. Lets get real.

We are fighting the scum of the earth terrorists over there, if our soldiers deem those scum as dangerous I have no problem with them destroying the terrorist. Do they show mercy when they kidnap American or any other nation's hostages? I think not.

We need to obliterate the enemy.

(I thought we were there to liberate this "enemy" rather than obliterate them, but no matter.)

Can you tell me what this "enemy" did to us that warrants our "obliterating" them? More specifically, we are killing by the thousands people who, for the most part, are just like you and me, just like your family and firends. Some are defending their country; many, many more are simply innocent bystanders, in the wrong place at the wrong time. What did these patriots and innocents do to us before we invaded their country that justifies their wholesale "obliteration" at our hands?

(Hint: Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11.)

Although there are exceptions, by and large, these people you want to "obliterate" have nothing to do with terrorism. They were peacefully minding their own business, going to work or school, raising a family, trying to have a nice life, when we unilaterally turned their world into hell. No matter how much you can rationalize why Hussein was a bad man who needed to go, rememebr he's sitting safe in a cell somewhere while we're out slaughtering the men, women, and children who were unfortunate to be living under his rule. We created this situation; consequently, we need to set the bar higher than "obliterate the enemy."

And you wonder why you have been accused of being an apologist...

Anyway, if you would take a moment and look at the reality of the situation - the innocent people who are dying are at the hands of the ones who are fighting the freedom of Iraq. They are the ones trying to kill us and bring instability to Iraq via terrorist methods. We aren't targeting women, children, or innocents. We destroy those trying to kill our soldiers. Infact the Iraqi troops are trying to destroy those same people.
We are liberating the people of Iraq and destroying those who oppose that liberation. I don't expect you to understand that, but your disinfo needed corrected.

<-shakes head at that appalling display by bowfinger above.

CsG

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

Originally posted by: Bowfinger

Originally posted by: raildogg
I really getting sick of all this US bashing. Lets get real.

We are fighting the scum of the earth terrorists over there, if our soldiers deem those scum as dangerous I have no problem with them destroying the terrorist. Do they show mercy when they kidnap American or any other nation's hostages? I think not.

We need to obliterate the enemy.

(I thought we were there to liberate this "enemy" rather than obliterate them, but no matter.)

Can you tell me what this "enemy" did to us that warrants our "obliterating" them? More specifically, we are killing by the thousands people who, for the most part, are just like you and me, just like your family and firends. Some are defending their country; many, many more are simply innocent bystanders, in the wrong place at the wrong time. What did these patriots and innocents do to us before we invaded their country that justifies their wholesale "obliteration" at our hands?

(Hint: Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11.)

Although there are exceptions, by and large, these people you want to "obliterate" have nothing to do with terrorism. They were peacefully minding their own business, going to work or school, raising a family, trying to have a nice life, when we unilaterally turned their world into hell. No matter how much you can rationalize why Hussein was a bad man who needed to go, rememebr he's sitting safe in a cell somewhere while we're out slaughtering the men, women, and children who were unfortunate to be living under his rule. We created this situation; consequently, we need to set the bar higher than "obliterate the enemy."

And you wonder why you have been accused of being an apologist...

Anyway, if you would take a moment and look at the reality of the situation - the innocent people who are dying are at the hands of the ones who are fighting the freedom of Iraq. They are the ones trying to kill us and bring instability to Iraq via terrorist methods. We aren't targeting women, children, or innocents. We destroy those trying to kill our soldiers. Infact the Iraqi troops are trying to destroy those same people.
We are liberating the people of Iraq and destroying those who oppose that liberation. I don't expect you to understand that, but your disinfo needed corrected.

<-shakes head at that appalling display by bowfinger above.

CsG

So you think your logic is going to work on the girl with her mothers brains on you? Find her and send a letter telling her how wonderful her liberation is.

We will kill all those who oppose us.

They will try to return the favor.

 

[imported_Condor]

It would have been better if he had been sent to Gtmo, but the libs would whine about his constitutional rights being violated there. It is just easier to take care of business in the field. Check out the black cloth. That is the closest they come to a uniform. Maybe he should have dressed in yellow or something that day.

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: WinstonSmith
So you think your logic is going to work on the girl with her mothers brains on you? Find her and send a letter telling her how wonderful her liberation is.

We will kill all those who oppose us.

They will try to return the favor.

This girl has to realize that her mother did not stop and thus became a danger. These checkpoints are not only for the safety of our troops, but for the citizens of Iraq. Her mother disregarded them. It's unfortunate that she did so but to blame us for her mother's action is asinine.

CsG

 

[imported_Condor]

Originally posted by: Bowfinger

Originally posted by: raildogg
I really getting sick of all this US bashing. Lets get real.

We are fighting the scum of the earth terrorists over there, if our soldiers deem those scum as dangerous I have no problem with them destroying the terrorist. Do they show mercy when they kidnap American or any other nation's hostages? I think not.

We need to obliterate the enemy.

(I thought we were there to liberate this "enemy" rather than obliterate them, but no matter.)

Can you tell me what this "enemy" did to us that warrants our "obliterating" them? More specifically, we are killing by the thousands people who, for the most part, are just like you and me, just like your family and firends. Some are defending their country; many, many more are simply innocent bystanders, in the wrong place at the wrong time. What did these patriots and innocents do to us before we invaded their country that justifies their wholesale "obliteration" at our hands?

(Hint: Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11.)

Although there are exceptions, by and large, these people you want to "obliterate" have nothing to do with terrorism. They were peacefully minding their own business, going to work or school, raising a family, trying to have a nice life, when we unilaterally turned their world into hell. No matter how much you can rationalize why Hussein was a bad man who needed to go, rememebr he's sitting safe in a cell somewhere while we're out slaughtering the men, women, and children who were unfortunate to be living under his rule. We created this situation; consequently, we need to set the bar higher than "obliterate the enemy."

Simple misunderstanding. We are there to liberate Iraq and to obliterate their enamies. Surprised you didn't understand the differance.

 

[CycloWizard]

Originally posted by: maluckey
CycloWizard,

As far as seeing gate runners....

I have seen gate runners running into Mexico die in a hail of bullets. I saw a gate runners on a military base shot at.

It's widely known by the entire world that United States Soldiers speak English, not Farsi, Arabic etc. It is universally accepted that when an official waves a gun at you you cease and desist what you are doing. It is universally known that when you approach someone and they point a gun at you, they are not saying "come closer!". It is also widely recognized that United States Foroces are attacked by car bombers and suicide on a regular basis.

Put all the above together and you see the picture of self-defense.

If the average Joe knows all this, then the dead woman driver in the second link is either the most stupid person on earth and needed to die to prevent spreading her genes, or she is overly arrogant and self centered and likely though that the laws, rules and regulations, not to mention common sense and imagination, did not aply to her. Perhaps there is a third explanation...perhaps she wished to kill a soldier that day, and figured they would send her to Allah. She got her wish.

That was my point.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

Originally posted by: WinstonSmith
So you think your logic is going to work on the girl with her mothers brains on you? Find her and send a letter telling her how wonderful her liberation is.

We will kill all those who oppose us.

They will try to return the favor.

This girl has to realize that her mother did not stop and thus became a danger. These checkpoints are not only for the safety of our troops, but for the citizens of Iraq. Her mother disregarded them. It's unfortunate that she did so but to blame us for her mother's action is asinine.

CsG

I understand perfectly what happened. We decided to invade an the consequences are we kill people. Not just "terrorists" Oh no not on purpose. Their deaths are incidental to our plans.

I just am sadly amused at how you characterize it. It is not very likely that she was engaging in any terrorist activity. I know better than you how this works. We put people in the situation where they had to kill her.

I think you pass over the tragedy of the situation with jingoistic flair.

Let me tell you that if I were this womans son, the pragmatism of the act would not change the fact that I would do everything to destroy all you value. I would work hard to overturn your plans. I would try to strike at your home. That is a very human and understandable response.

Someone else had it right. You had better kill the kids too. Pragmatism in action.

 

[Bowfinger]

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

Originally posted by: Bowfinger

Originally posted by: raildogg
I really getting sick of all this US bashing. Lets get real.

We are fighting the scum of the earth terrorists over there, if our soldiers deem those scum as dangerous I have no problem with them destroying the terrorist. Do they show mercy when they kidnap American or any other nation's hostages? I think not.

We need to obliterate the enemy.

(I thought we were there to liberate this "enemy" rather than obliterate them, but no matter.)

Can you tell me what this "enemy" did to us that warrants our "obliterating" them? More specifically, we are killing by the thousands people who, for the most part, are just like you and me, just like your family and firends. Some are defending their country; many, many more are simply innocent bystanders, in the wrong place at the wrong time. What did these patriots and innocents do to us before we invaded their country that justifies their wholesale "obliteration" at our hands?

(Hint: Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11.)

Although there are exceptions, by and large, these people you want to "obliterate" have nothing to do with terrorism. They were peacefully minding their own business, going to work or school, raising a family, trying to have a nice life, when we unilaterally turned their world into hell. No matter how much you can rationalize why Hussein was a bad man who needed to go, rememebr he's sitting safe in a cell somewhere while we're out slaughtering the men, women, and children who were unfortunate to be living under his rule. We created this situation; consequently, we need to set the bar higher than "obliterate the enemy."

And you wonder why you have been accused of being an apologist...

I don't wonder at all. It's because the Bush administration and its faithful fluffers don't know how to have an honest discussion. Their foremost tactic is character assassination.

Anyway, if you would take a moment and look at the reality of the situation - the innocent people who are dying are at the hands of the ones who are fighting the freedom of Iraq. They are the ones trying to kill us and bring instability to Iraq via terrorist methods. We aren't targeting women, children, or innocents. We destroy those trying to kill our soldiers. Infact the Iraqi troops are trying to destroy those same people.

When you can show that most of the people we've killed are foreign terrorists instead of Iraqis defending their country and innocent bystanders, then you'll have a point. The simple fact is, from all reports including the commanders in Iraq, most of the resistance comes from the native population, and we are killing thousands of completely innocent men, women, and children. I already pointed this out once, but you ignored it.

By the way, I am not referring to Bozo Galora's example. I'm not sure what happened there, but if she truly ignored all warnings to stop, I agree our troops did the only thing they could reasonably do.

We are liberating the people of Iraq and destroying those who oppose that liberation.

No, we are destroying the people of Iraq. They "oppose liberation" in exactly the same way we would oppose liberation by the Chinese, for example.

I don't expect you to understand that, but your disinfo needed corrected.

<-shakes head at that appalling display by bowfinger above.

CsG

ROFL. That was lame, even for you.

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: WinstonSmith

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

Originally posted by: WinstonSmith
So you think your logic is going to work on the girl with her mothers brains on you? Find her and send a letter telling her how wonderful her liberation is.

We will kill all those who oppose us.

They will try to return the favor.

This girl has to realize that her mother did not stop and thus became a danger. These checkpoints are not only for the safety of our troops, but for the citizens of Iraq. Her mother disregarded them. It's unfortunate that she did so but to blame us for her mother's action is asinine.

CsG

I understand perfectly what happened. We decided to invade an the consequences are we kill people. Not just "terrorists" Oh no not on purpose. Their deaths are incidental to our plans.

I just am sadly amused at how you characterize it. It is not very likely that she was engaging in any terrorist activity. I know better than you how this works. We put people in the situation where they had to kill her.

I think you pass over the tragedy of the situation with jingoistic flair.

Let me tell you that if I were this womans son, the pragmatism of the act would not change the fact that I would do everything to destroy all you value. I would work hard to overturn your plans. I would try to strike at your home. That is a very human and understandable response.

Someone else had it right. You had better kill the kids too. Pragmatism in action.

Maybe so. Would you advocate destroying everyone in the car though? Do you not save the innocent passengers if possible? Are the passengers deemed too high of risk in your mind then? They didn't make the choice not to stop. They didn't become a hazard - they were passengers.

It's a no win situation. Sad, but unavoidable in this scenario.

CsG

 

[Bowfinger]

Originally posted by: Condor
Simple misunderstanding. We are there to liberate Iraq and to obliterate their enamies. Surprised you didn't understand the differance.

According to raildogg -- and most of the Bush supporters here -- the Iraqis are the enemies. Not surprised you ignored the incongruity of liberating by obliterating.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

Originally posted by: WinstonSmith

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

Originally posted by: WinstonSmith
So you think your logic is going to work on the girl with her mothers brains on you? Find her and send a letter telling her how wonderful her liberation is.

We will kill all those who oppose us.

They will try to return the favor.

This girl has to realize that her mother did not stop and thus became a danger. These checkpoints are not only for the safety of our troops, but for the citizens of Iraq. Her mother disregarded them. It's unfortunate that she did so but to blame us for her mother's action is asinine.

CsG

I understand perfectly what happened. We decided to invade an the consequences are we kill people. Not just "terrorists" Oh no not on purpose. Their deaths are incidental to our plans.

I just am sadly amused at how you characterize it. It is not very likely that she was engaging in any terrorist activity. I know better than you how this works. We put people in the situation where they had to kill her.

I think you pass over the tragedy of the situation with jingoistic flair.

Let me tell you that if I were this womans son, the pragmatism of the act would not change the fact that I would do everything to destroy all you value. I would work hard to overturn your plans. I would try to strike at your home. That is a very human and understandable response.

Someone else had it right. You had better kill the kids too. Pragmatism in action.

Maybe so. Would you advocate destroying everyone in the car though? Do you not save the innocent passengers if possible? Are the passengers deemed too high of risk in your mind then? They didn't make the choice not to stop. They didn't become a hazard - they were passengers.

It's a no win situation. Sad, but unavoidable in this scenario.

CsG

Never saw War Games eh?

 

[raildogg]

Originally posted by: Bowfinger

Originally posted by: Condor
Simple misunderstanding. We are there to liberate Iraq and to obliterate their enamies. Surprised you didn't understand the differance.

According to raildogg -- and most of the Bush supporters here -- the Iraqis are the enemies. Not surprised you ignored the incongruity of liberating by obliterating.

You guys were the ones saying there were no terrorists in Iraq. Then where did all these terrorists we are currently fighting come from?

Dont tell me they were regular Iraqi's who just joined the militancy. These guys are trained, professional killers.

We need to drop some of our 500 lbs (Daisy Cutter) bombs on these guys, as they had great success in the Afghan campaign.

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: WinstonSmith
Never saw War Games eh?

Yes I have. and? It doesn't change this situation. It's sad for both sides.

CsG

 

[Aimster]

Does it look like he was doing anything? He was handcuffed and he died handcuffed. Way to kill someone.