Updated: Formula 1 all seasons thread!

[Zim Hosein]

I'm back , was on vacation during the last race weekend and had to catch up w/ all the racing on-demand.

Mexican Grand Prix Qualifying Results:

P1. Bottas
P2. Hamilton
P3. Verstappen
P4. Perez
P5. Gasly

Mercedes has found pace from P3 to quali w/ Bottas breaking into the 15's! Max calling Perez an idiot over the radio during his last run is classless. Horner needs to spank him!

 

[Ajay]

Wow! Hamilton was 0.650s behind Verstappen in P3!! Didn't get a chance to watch quali yet. Max calling Perez and idiot in MEXICO is really going to go over well .

 

[JulesMaximus]

What happened to Red Bull pace in Q3? I hope their race pace is better.

 

[Ajay]

What happened to Red Bull pace in Q3? I hope their race pace is better.

The reds really hurt them at the faster lap times - not enough grip on the rears. Max was on a really good last lap till the Tsundo/Perez incident, which cost him time. Still would have come in third, but but would have been much closer. I expect the RB race pace to be fractionally better than MB. MB has more straight line speed and they have a long straight till turn 1, so Bottas will like have a good lead out front after the first lap. If Hamilton gets a poor start, it'll be a fight again between Max and Lewis on lap one. Hopefully, there will be no contact between the two. I just hope it's a clean race, strategy and position will be key (well, duh).

 

[Zim Hosein]

Mexican Grand Prix Results:

P1. Verstappen
P2. Hamilton
P3. Perez
P4. Gasly
P5. LeClerc

Mercedes blew it in turn 1 at the race start! This is one day Bottas will want to completely forget, at least he set a new track record! Hamilton was lucky to hang onto second place w/ Perez chasing him down. Let see what happens next week in Brazil!

 

[Ajay]

Geez, that tow off the start is really strong! Poor Bottas, sometimes the only luck he has is bad luck. From the interviews after P3, it was pretty clear Max was going to go for an outside pass on turn 1, a little curious why Bottas seemed to break a bit early. Pressure of being in the 'middle'? The chase down towards the end of the race was the most fun part. It would have been really interesting last 10 laps w/o the back markers. Hamilton would have really had to show his chops against a car with more pace - I don't think Perez would have had an easy time of it. It is really nice to have a real championship battle. I haven't seen that since I've been watching (last 5 years - well, I caught the end where Nico won, but on the same team). Looking forward to Brazil.

 

[JulesMaximus]

Awesome race! Glad Verstappen won that one. I like Lewis Hamilton and Mercedes but I also appreciate how good a driver Max Verstappen has become and I'm kind of pulling for him winning his first WDC this season. So much so that I bought a Max Verstappen hat last week.

Bottas did seem to brake early for turn one. Maybe he just didn't have confidence in the brakes and tires being up to temp and being able to stop the car after sitting on the grid for so long? Then again, Lewis also didn't carry on much farther before braking either. They were three abreast going into the braking zone and only Verstappen managed to make it through in front so it wasn't just Bottas.

I have been following F1 since the late 1990s and the Mercedes dominance reminds me too much of the Schumacher/Ferrari dominance of the early 2000s. Glad to see such a close championship fight this year.

 

[Ajay]

Bottas did seem to brake early for turn one. Maybe he just didn't have confidence in the brakes and tires being up to temp and being able to stop the car after sitting on the grid for so long? Then again, Lewis also didn't carry on much farther before braking either.

Good point. The RB16b looked very solid on the yellow striped tires.

 

[Zim Hosein]

Sao Paulo Sprint Results:

P1. Bottas
P2. Verstappen
P3. Sainz
P4. Perez
P5. Hamilton

What a recovery drive from P20 to P5 for Hamilton after the penalty for the DRS infraction. I can't wait to see what he can do starting from P10 tomorrow (5 place grid penalty for a new engine) with 71 laps! Mercedes sure chose a good circuit to take the penalty for another power unit. RB should be worried especially if Bottas gets a good start.

 

[zinfamous]

That was an awesome sprint with Hamilton shredding the field. glad I didn't forget to watch.

Bottas really has been a different driver the last month or so.

 

[Ajay]

What a recovery drive from P20 to P5 for Hamilton after the penalty for the DRS infraction. I can't wait to see what he can do starting from P10 tomorrow (5 place grid penalty for a new engine) with 71 laps! Mercedes sure chose a good circuit to take the penalty for another power unit. RB should be worried especially if Bottas gets a good start.

Lewis is the king of charging back from the tail end of the grid. Amazing drive! His pace was almost unbelievable. If Max can get ahead of Bottas, I think he’ll win, but Lewis is going to be gunning for him. He’s pissed off and has the bit between his teeth now. Should be a very exciting race.

 

[Meghan54]

Sao Paulo Sprint Results:

P1. Bottas
P2. Verstappen
P3. Sainz
P4. Perez
P5. Hamilton

What a recovery drive from P20 to P5 for Hamilton after the penalty for the DRS infraction. I can't wait to see what he can do starting from P10 tomorrow (5 place grid penalty for a new engine) with 71 laps! Mercedes sure chose a good circuit to take the penalty for another power unit. RB should be worried especially if Bottas gets a good start.

Read today in an article that the DRS infraction was 0.2mm on the right side of the wing. Toto said the wing was within the 85mm on the left and center of the wing. Said it was probably damage from qualifying…has happened before. But before, teams were allowed to do a repair on such a problem.

So how did Verstappen discern that minute difference when he examined Hamilton’s car (for which he received a 50K Euro fine for touching it)?

And, as an edit, Mercedes says the FIA has refused to give the wing back to Mercedes, which Toto called unusual. Starting to wonder how much Red Bull is paying the FIA.....

 

[Zim Hosein]

Sao Paulo Grand Prix Results:

P1. Hamilton
P2. Verstappen (+10.496!)
P3. Bottas
P4. Perez
P5. LeClerc

What a drive by Hamilton! Verstappen got away w/ a lot today, running Hamilton off the track & weaving down the straight! The race for the championship is still on. Qatar should be a good race, can't wait for next weekend!

 

[Zim Hosein]

So how did Verstappen discern that minute difference when he examined Hamilton’s car (for which he received a 50K Euro fine for touching it)?

And, as an edit, Mercedes says the FIA has refused to give the wing back to Mercedes, which Toto called unusual. Starting to wonder how much Red Bull is paying the FIA.....

55K straight from Verstappen's wallet was probally just a tip!

 

[_Rick_]

That Mercedes was monstrous on the straights. This race showed just how much faster the Mercedes is than the other cars.
Also, McLaren look winded. Hope they invested into next year instead.

Also, what's with the Senna cosplay? The Brazilian flag was a bit much...

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[zinfamous]

what an awesome weekend of racing. I'm not sure what I think of Verstappen pushing off Hamilton or not--I don't have enough experience with these things, but it looks like it really could have gone either way, without being able to see exactly what he was doing with the wheel. I'm fine with how it turned out, but I guess that would change if the race turned out differently with that little bit striking a sore point if Verstappen had finished first.

....and yeah, there's really no rational way that Max noticed anything specific about that wing in qualifying. Truly bizarre.

 

[Meghan54]

what an awesome weekend of racing. I'm not sure what I think of Verstappen pushing off Hamilton or not--I don't have enough experience with these things, but it looks like it really could have gone either way, without being able to see exactly what he was doing with the wheel. I'm fine with how it turned out, but I guess that would change if the race turned out differently with that little bit striking a sore point if Verstappen had finished first.

....and yeah, there's really no rational way that Max noticed anything specific about that wing in qualifying. Truly bizarre.

Did you find it odd that in all the videos of Verstappen running Ham off course, there was every view possible except for Verstappen’s cockpit camera view. We got the view from Hamilton’s cockpit camera but Max’s never materialized…and there’s a cockpit camera in every car.

 

[zinfamous]

Did you find it odd that in all the videos of Verstappen running Ham off course, there was every view possible except for Verstappen’s cockpit camera view. We got the view from Hamilton’s cockpit camera but Max’s never materialized…and there’s a cockpit camera in every car.

yes, it's very odd. As odd as FIA taking Hamilton's wing and refusing to let Mercedes know anything about it or get any details from their investigation. But yeah, I know nothing about this stuff and I really don't have anything for or against these teams or the drivers, but it is all very strange to me.

I mean, if it was someone like FIFA involved, you'd know it was super fucked, but I don't know enough about the sport to assume anything like that going on with FIA.

In the end, Hamilton and Mercedes survived the shenanigans all weekend and came out on top, making for a historic weekend of racing.

I guess it's 50/50 for me that Verstappen was pushing Hamilton off or if he just missed his line with too much power or whatever and couldn't stay inside (isn't that the same turn that Bottas overshot on lap one?). But, it certainly looked like he pushed Hamilton out.

I'm not even sure who I'm pulling for in this championship. I really like Max, but I also like Hamilton and kinda want to see him lock in that full-on statistical GOAT status. (Of course, I'm one of those jerks that would still argue that Jim Clark is the greatest of all time....but the problem there being that he did the one thing you aren't supposed to do to be a great driver--die. ....not that I'm really joking and don't mean to be flippant about it, but I'd still keep him as one of the potential 3 GOATs).

 

[zinfamous]

I guess the "conspiracy" side of me leans towards FIA wanting to make for a real championship competition over anything, and not really Red Bull or Mercedes or anything else colluding either way....just taking advantage of a situation that they can't control but can probably see is leaning towards their favor. Obviously, the teams are going to look at for themselves and side with whatever ruling benefits them, and argue to that effect. ...like how the NFL has clear favorites in teams with the largest markets and absolutely push rules to favor certain players and teams over others to make for "better playoffs."

Maybe FIA and a lot of the fans are just annoyed with Mercedes dominance and, I guess understandably, some of their shenanigans pushing the rules in recent years. In the end, I remain pretty impressed with how they communicate among themselves in pretty respectful, sportsmanlike manner whenever bringing challenges directly or raising concerns about what another team is doing. (OK, except for maybe the shadiness of Max poking around another team's equipment).

In the end. I respect the teams that know the rules in and out and have the means and the balls to test the fringes in order to see what works, what is tolerable, and in the end what keeps you winning. I can be both annoyed by that sort of thing but also seriously respect it, hehe.

 

[Ajay]

Well, wow. P25 (effectively) to P1 Lewis doesn't have 7 world championships for nothing. I think the FIA took a look at the wing because Hamilton's speed under DRS was a huge jump, sadly, once they find something out of spec, they have to act. It all was a bit weird though.

The pace advantage Hamilton had on Max after the pass was also just insane. Haven't done the math but it look like 0.7 sec/lap! RB are now squarely behind the eight ball. Of course, championships can turn on a dime with one DNF.

 

[Zim Hosein]

F1 race director Michael Masi has revealed that the FIA have not seen footage from Max Verstappen's on-board camera during his tussle with Lewis Hamilton in Brazil - and admits it could be the 'smoking gun' that decides the Red Bull driver was at fault.
Mercedes were furious after a lap 48 incident between the two championship title contenders, in which their man overtook Verstappen, only for him to be forced wide and pushed back down to second place.
Stewards decided that no investigation was necessary, despite many believing the Red Bull driver was at fault through turn four, but it has now come to light that the FIA did not have all the footage to review during the race.

F1: Masi confirms FIA have NOT seen footage of Verstappen's on-board...

 

[Meghan54]

F1: Masi confirms FIA have NOT seen footage of Verstappen's on-board...

To me, something seems rather odd. Maybe all the whining and gnashing of teeth Helmut Mario and Horner have been doing publicly, and undoubtedly in private, is having its desired effect.

The lack of video is beyond odd in that the cockpit view on Verstappen’s car was working…we did get to see that view during the start reviews Sky does, where they show how the start looked from each driver’s perspective.

We got to watch Max pass Bottas in turn 1 on the start from Max’s cockpit view. Odd they couldn’t find that view of the altercation…just too damned convenient.

 

[_Rick_]

I believe there's only bandwidth for one live video stream per car - the other cameras may record locally - or may actually be switched off. In any case, the on-board camera angles are swapped periodically. That's why for this scene you only get the rear view. I' m guessing they'll look at the recording once they've got it.
I did find it surprising that Max didn't have to hand the position over, but I guess "let them race" covers this. If Lewis had let Max overshoot all by himself, he would have gotten a clean pass, but he committed to the outside of a car that wasn't going to make the turn...

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[JulesMaximus]

If Hamilton wins out the remaining 3 races and Verstappen finishes 2nd Hamilton would have a single point advantage in the WDC. There are also 3 fastest lap points to be had which is why Red Bull pit Perez on lap 70 to steal that point away from Hamilton. Yeah, one DNF could really doom either one in their quest for the 2021 WDC.

I'm kind of pulling for Verstappen even though I am a Lewis Hamilton fan. It is clear that Lewis is very motivated right now and he's going to be tough to beat especially as strong as Mercedes has looked recently. They just seem to have a huge speed advantage over everyone else.

 

[Ajay]

I believe there's only bandwidth for one live video stream per car - the other cameras may record locally - or may actually be switched off. In any case, the on-board camera angles are swapped periodically. That's why for this scene you only get the rear view. I' m guessing they'll look at the recording once they've got it.
I did find it surprising that Max didn't have to hand the position over, but I guess "let them race" covers this. If Lewis had let Max overshoot all by himself, he would have gotten a clean pass, but he committed to the outside of a car that wasn't going to make the turn...

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They do have the the car's telemetry, but once the FIA stewards decide not to investigate, they don't look at it. So they made their decision based on the most easily available footage, which was the main broadcast feed (and recording). That's when they decided 'let them race'. I'm just glad they didn't crash. Max pushed it a bit too far, IMHO, given the Mercedes pace advantage. Of course, we could look at the Nico/Lewis battles and find some crazy shit too.