Updated - Buying a 2012 Nissan GT-R - ETA - This Week

[DivideBYZero]

Koing, I know a guy who knows that guy, and saw that mental blue Mc F1 at the Egham Shell!

 

[Castiel]

I work some overtime and the whole thread explodes 🙂

Very early monday update before I pass out. Car should be here friday. Spoke to the dealer on saturday and was told the car was released and is in transit. Secondly I have signed all the papers making the car mine. I can't remember if I posted this so if I did my apologies. Lastly I received clarification that a tune will void the warranty but exhaust, downpipes, intakes and such are fair game. Hopefully I can get that in writing so modding could begin Saturday. Will have more tomorrow

 

[punjabiplaya]

I work some overtime and the whole thread explodes 🙂

Very early monday update before I pass out. Car should be here friday. Spoke to the dealer on saturday and was told the car was released and is in transit. Secondly I have signed all the papers making the car mine. I can't remember if I posted this so if I did my apologies. Lastly I received clarification that a tune will void the warranty but exhaust, downpipes, intakes and such are fair game. Hopefully I can get that in writing so modding could begin Saturday. Will have more tomorrow

get in writing!!

 

[Demo24]

I work some overtime and the whole thread explodes 🙂

Very early monday update before I pass out. Car should be here friday. Spoke to the dealer on saturday and was told the car was released and is in transit. Secondly I have signed all the papers making the car mine. I can't remember if I posted this so if I did my apologies. Lastly I received clarification that a tune will void the warranty but exhaust, downpipes, intakes and such are fair game. Hopefully I can get that in writing so modding could begin Saturday. Will have more tomorrow

Won't you need a tune to make those mods a)worthwhile b)work efficiently with the vehicle?

 

[bargetrav]

I work some overtime and the whole thread explodes 🙂

Very early monday update before I pass out. Car should be here friday. Spoke to the dealer on saturday and was told the car was released and is in transit. Secondly I have signed all the papers making the car mine. I can't remember if I posted this so if I did my apologies. Lastly I received clarification that a tune will void the warranty but exhaust, downpipes, intakes and such are fair game. Hopefully I can get that in writing so modding could begin Saturday. Will have more tomorrow

All of that will be a waste without a tune, as a tune is where you actually see the performance gain. Exhaust maybe will gain a little without a tune and definitely sound better.

 

[EightySix Four]

Won't you need a tune to make those mods a)worthwhile b)work efficiently with the vehicle?

Yeah, it's a complete waste other than noise without the tune.

 

[Demo24]

Yeah, it's a complete waste other than noise without the tune.

What it's like on most Subarus and afaik turbo cars in general. Curious to see what he expects to gain from it other than noise.


Might just be me, but the GTR is probably one car I would leave as it. Seems to be rather well sorted from the factory and I doubt I could significantly improve things other than power, which breaks warranty and could end up costing you a crap ton of money from the tune and if something went wrong a very very expensive engine or transmission.

If anything I would at least break the car in before modifying it.

 

[alkemyst]

The whole 'tune' thing is a new concept. Most bolt ons will still see an improvement without the tune. Of course with 'tunes' out there everything gets optimized.

 

[exdeath]

The whole 'tune' thing is a new concept. Most bolt ons will still see an improvement without the tune. Of course with 'tunes' out there everything gets optimized.

Any mod that causes the air flow to exceed the preset maf transfer curve will require tuning. Even a simple cold air kit that relocates the maf will skew that curve, and if not tuned for the change, the least you want to do is make sure afrs are safe.

There is usually enough margin in the factory tune for basic minor gains from exhaust and pre maf intake plumbing without retuning.

 

[Castiel]

Not sure why everyone thinks that mods without a tune are an utter waste.

Cone filters that replace the stock airboxes - Better Spool
Catless downpipes - Tree huggers i don't care 🙂 - Better spool

Opening up the airflow and deleting the cats are going to be very interesting 🙂

 

[alkemyst]

Not sure why everyone thinks that mods without a tune are an utter waste.

Cone filters that replace the stock airboxes - Better Spool
Catless downpipes - Tree huggers i don't care 🙂 - Better spool

Opening up the airflow and deleting the cats are going to be very interesting 🙂

armchair crowd is why.

next up is raised on driver video games where 'teh tune' = profit.

 

[jlee]

Not sure why everyone thinks that mods without a tune are an utter waste.

Cone filters that replace the stock airboxes - Better Spool
Catless downpipes - Tree huggers i don't care 🙂 - Better spool

Opening up the airflow and deleting the cats are going to be very interesting 🙂

As said earlier, some cars (i.e. Subaru) can run dangerously lean if you run an intake without a tune. My Forester was noticeably faster with just a tune (Cobb Accessport stage 1 map)...and with a VF39, STi TMIC and 3" turboback (with tune), it's much faster. I wouldn't run the above without a tune, though - good way to break stuff.

My MR2 does not have a stock intake/downpipe/exhaust/turbo/intercooler, nor is it running remotely near factory boost settings..and I am likely running piggishly rich. Different cars work differently.

 

[EightySix Four]

Not sure why everyone thinks that mods without a tune are an utter waste.

Cone filters that replace the stock airboxes - Better Spool
Catless downpipes - Tree huggers i don't care 🙂 - Better spool

Opening up the airflow and deleting the cats are going to be very interesting 🙂

Probably because I tune cars. If your ECU says that it's going to make x boost at y RPM, no matter how many physical changes you throw at it, it's going to make x boost at y RPM or throw a code.

For example, the stock PCM in the Ecotec LNF (which is made by Bosch) will not let the car gain more than about 10whp before it starts to learn it's way back down. The first run on the dyno after you switch the hardware may show a 25whp gain. Come back a week later and it'll be closer to 5-10whp and the turbo spool will be back closer to stock. Also, once you've hit the peak of the stock tune, by say adding an exhaust, any other new hardware won't change the power at all. Manufacturers do this to protect the drivetrain, especially in cars like the GT-R. Without a tune you're seriously wasting your money.

Most likely, on the GT-R at least, in stock form the car's flow capabilities can already surpass both his filter and downpipe, but the PCM is holding it back.

armchair crowd is why.

next up is raised on driver video games where 'teh tune' = profit.

Armchair my ass, ask Apex if you don't believe us. He'll show dyno charts to back it up (especially if they still have some LNF dyno charts laying around).

 

[alkemyst]

Probably because I tune cars. If your ECU says that it's going to make x boost at y RPM, no matter how many physical changes you throw at it, it's going to make x boost at y RPM or throw a code.

For example, the stock PCM in the Ecotec LNF (which is made by Bosch) will not let the car gain more than about 10whp before it starts to learn it's way back down. The first run on the dyno after you switch the hardware may show a 25whp gain. Come back a week later and it'll be closer to 5-10whp and the turbo spool will be back closer to stock. Also, once you've hit the peak of the stock tune, by say adding an exhaust, any other new hardware won't change the power at all. Manufacturers do this to protect the drivetrain, especially in cars like the GT-R. Without a tune you're seriously wasting your money.

Most likely, on the GT-R at least, in stock form the car's flow capabilities can already surpass both his filter and downpipe, but the PCM is holding it back.



Armchair my ass, ask Apex if you don't believe us. He'll show dyno charts to back it up (especially if they still have some LNF dyno charts laying around).

how does the ECU know how many HP it's making?

I never said all cars BTW so don't fucking quote me on an "EVERYTHING" deal.

Yes on some cars added things without a tune will not add much if anything at all.

Chances are though these cars are not the 'masses' ones.

 

[EightySix Four]

how does the ECU know how many HP it's making?

I never said all cars BTW so don't fucking quote me on an "EVERYTHING" deal.

Yes on some cars added things without a tune will not add much if anything at all.

Chances are though these cars are not the 'masses' ones.

Power is just a function of the amount of air and gas inside the cylinders (and obviously other things, but that's most important). If the PCM knows how much air is going in (via the MAF sensor) and has a particular target, it can adjust based on that information, and all modern boosted engines do. You'll notice on many modern turbo motors that your boost numbers are lower when it's cold out (at least stock), that is the PCM cutting back because the air is more dense.

That' also exactly why the Ford Ecoboost motors have a perfectly flat torque curve, the PCM cuts boost/power at particular points in the curve to flatten it out instead of letting it peak. Others which do this include such supercars as the Cobalt SS, Sky Redline, Ford F150, Jetta, etc.

 

[Castiel]

Probably because I tune cars.

Any experience tuning GT-R's?

 

[EightySix Four]

Any experience tuning GT-R's?

No, mostly small block chevies and the Ecotec LNF. Hoping to get my hands on a few ecoboost cars here soon as well as moving into some other euro cars. The things I'm talking about are pretty standard across turbo ECU's, though obviously the limits vary dramatically from car to car.

It is in my personal opinion that getting mods solely for performance for a car which has a ECU as restrictive as the GTR's is a waste, while you'll get a few HP here and there the gains are nothing like what you get from a tune for similar money. Though, on the other side of that, the GTR is already pretty damn fast (especially the 2012) so if you want to spend a few bucks for sound and a few HP here and there, I won't dissuade you. :thumbsup:

 

[Spicedaddy]

Leave that thing stock, especially for the break-in period. When you decide you don't care about the warranty anymore, then do intake/chip/exhaust.

 

[Zivic]

Not sure why everyone thinks that mods without a tune are an utter waste.

Cone filters that replace the stock airboxes - Better Spool
Catless downpipes - Tree huggers i don't care 🙂 - Better spool

Opening up the airflow and deleting the cats are going to be very interesting 🙂

if you open up the exhaust, you might screw things up royally. removing the cats you might see 2-5 lbs of boost increases. This alone could be a MAJOR problem. It can depend on the ECU, which on the GTR, I know very little about. But I know on my boosted applications a drastic reduction in exhaust back pressure must be taken into account in the tune.

If you are thinking about catless downpipes I would make damn sure that wouldn't void the warranty.

 

[EightySix Four]

if you open up the exhaust, you might screw things up royally. removing the cats you might see 2-5 lbs of boost increases. This alone could be a MAJOR problem. It can depend on the ECU, which on the GTR, I know very little about. But I know on my boosted applications a drastic reduction in exhaust back pressure must be taken into account in the tune.

If you are thinking about catless downpipes I would make damn sure that wouldn't void the warranty.

The ECU on the GT-R will control the boost much differently than yours will. He could run straight pipes off the downpipe and not have an issue with overboost.

 

[Zivic]

The ECU on the GT-R will control the boost much differently than yours will. He could run straight pipes off the downpipe and not have an issue with overboost.

it will control with to a finite number(value) vs a gain type control? If the ecu is that capable, I don't think I would even screw with bolt-ons without a retune

 

[EightySix Four]

it will control with to a finite number(value) vs a gain type control? If the ecu is that capable, I don't think I would even screw with bolt-ons without a retune

Yeah, it doesn't actually have a boost target, it has an airflow target. If the MAF exceeds the airflow values that it wants, it'll open the wastegate (among other things). Most modern OEM boosted motors can control in this manner. They'll also detect overboost conditions view the MAP (manifold air pressure) even if the MAF somehow malfunctions and open the wastegate+throw a code.

 

[Demo24]

Not sure why everyone thinks that mods without a tune are an utter waste.

Cone filters that replace the stock airboxes - Better Spool
Catless downpipes - Tree huggers i don't care 🙂 - Better spool

Opening up the airflow and deleting the cats are going to be very interesting 🙂

I thought you lived in Jersey, in that case you're going to have to undo these mods everytime you go in for emissions testing/inspection. AND I guarantee you no Nissan dealer is going to warranty your car for engine or transmission faults with these mods on. Deleting a federally mandated item on your car not only ='s felony, but is tuned in.

Either way, you are going to throw codes when you do this. To get rid of the codes your going to have to mess with the ECU somehow, and im not even sure on the GTR you can just turn the light off for the o2 readings. Since the rear o2 sensors are going to be out of whack, badly, you've also a chance of throwing it into limp mode or doing damage depending on how the ECU handles this.

You can get away with an intake, but if your going full exhaust route at least get yourself a accessport

http://www.cobbtuning.com/categories/?id=3848

 

[Castiel]

I thought you lived in Jersey, in that case you're going to have to undo these mods everytime you go in for emissions testing/inspection. AND I guarantee you no Nissan dealer is going to warranty your car for engine or transmission faults with these mods on. Deleting a federally mandated item on your car not only ='s felony, but is tuned in.

Either way, you are going to throw codes when you do this. To get rid of the codes your going to have to mess with the ECU somehow, and im not even sure on the GTR you can just turn the light off for the o2 readings. Since the rear o2 sensors are going to be out of whack, badly, you've also a chance of throwing it into limp mode or doing damage depending on how the ECU handles this.

You can get away with an intake, but if your going full exhaust route at least get yourself a accessport

http://www.cobbtuning.com/categories/?id=3848

Pennsylvania and those gains with tuning are insane.

Catless Y and Intake system from cobb are very reasonably priced.

 

[EightySix Four]

Pennsylvania and those gains with tuning are insane.

Tuning boosted cars is fun. My Sky Redline was 260/260hp stock, and that's not to the wheels. It was in excess of 300whp and 400wlb.ft with all the tuning before the physical mods.