Unsurprising

[Jmman]

This would be funny if it wasn't so scary.......Chavez now proposing to be president until 2031.......
Text

 

[Cruise51]

Faux sure is great at spinning the truth.

 

[glenn1]

I know Steeplerot's position on this and would likely agree if this proposal was written as was the 22nd amendment, meaning it wouldn't affect the person currently in power. If it were written similarly so it didn't retroactively help Chavez I'd probably be more supportive of it. Or if Chavez agreed to step down for a term then run again under the new rules I'd say he would be well within his rights to run for as many terms as he likes.

 

[LegendKiller]

Ahem...


http://www.weeklystandard.com/Utilities...r_preview.asp?idArticle=2785&R=EB8DC9A


http://216.26.163.62/2003/c2_24.html


http://www.vcrisis.com/index.php?content=letters/200411061126

Article 350 of the 1999 constitution, drafted by the chavistas themselves, enshrines the right to disobey a government that undermines human rights. But a proposed terrorism law would turn many forms of civil disobedience, such as blocking streets, into terrorist acts, with correspondingly severe penalties. And a national police bill would put control of all local police forces, in effect, into the hands of the interior ministry.

I have a Candian friend who is a PhD political science student in Can. She did an internationa study in Venezuela last year, for a year. She states that Chavez is far from the benevolent leader many lefties make him out to be.

However, the apologists and appeasers will continue to polish Chavez' knob.

Overall, S.A. governments are pretty damn corrupt anyway. For some reason they just can't get it together enough to have a strong democracy that reduces corruption and eventual collapse. The US can't do anything about it, it just has to run its course.

 

[Polish3d]

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: Frackal

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: Braznor
Nice to see leftists applauding Chavez for trying to make himself the dictator of his nation.

Tell me, if someone anti-left does the same thing, would you support him?

How's this anything on the same level as Dictatorship?

It COULD LEAD to a dictatorship, particularly if he makes moves to control the voting process over time

Sure, it "could", but so what? Lichtenstein "could" be conspiring to take over the World with a Mind Control device.

He is going out of his way to make this Legit by putting it to a Public Referendum. He "could" just use his overwhelming control of the Government to pass a Law removing the Term Limit, but why doesn't he? He is bending over backwards to avoid being labelled a Dictator. Come back when he suspends Elections or jails the Opposition, until then he is nowhere near being a Dictator or even making himself one.

Oh pardon me, I guess it's better to ignore totalitarian-esque trends. :disgust: Where's the smiley for "double standard?"

And go ahead and challenge me on Bush, most of (what are commonly viewed as) his over-reaching measures I am AGAINST.

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: Frackal

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: Frackal

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: Braznor
Nice to see leftists applauding Chavez for trying to make himself the dictator of his nation.

Tell me, if someone anti-left does the same thing, would you support him?

How's this anything on the same level as Dictatorship?

It COULD LEAD to a dictatorship, particularly if he makes moves to control the voting process over time

Sure, it "could", but so what? Lichtenstein "could" be conspiring to take over the World with a Mind Control device.

He is going out of his way to make this Legit by putting it to a Public Referendum. He "could" just use his overwhelming control of the Government to pass a Law removing the Term Limit, but why doesn't he? He is bending over backwards to avoid being labelled a Dictator. Come back when he suspends Elections or jails the Opposition, until then he is nowhere near being a Dictator or even making himself one.

Oh pardon me, I guess it's better to ignore totalitarian-esque trends. :disgust: Where's the smiley for "double standard?"

And go ahead and challenge me on Bush, most of (what are commonly viewed as) his over-reaching measures I am AGAINST.

Umm k.

We've had the paranoid musings ever since he gained power 2ish years ago. He could do all kinds of things to usurp complete power. Yet here he is suggesting a Referendum for nothing more than 2 run and win in 2 consecutive Elections. WhereTF is the "totalitarian-esque" part in that?

 

[Steeplerot]

Originally posted by: LegendKiller
Ahem...


http://www.weeklystandard.com/Utilities...r_preview.asp?idArticle=2785&R=EB8DC9A


http://216.26.163.62/2003/c2_24.html


http://www.vcrisis.com/index.php?content=letters/200411061126

Article 350 of the 1999 constitution, drafted by the chavistas themselves, enshrines the right to disobey a government that undermines human rights. But a proposed terrorism law would turn many forms of civil disobedience, such as blocking streets, into terrorist acts, with correspondingly severe penalties. And a national police bill would put control of all local police forces, in effect, into the hands of the interior ministry.

I have a Candian friend who is a PhD political science student in Can. She did an internationa study in Venezuela last year, for a year. She states that Chavez is far from the benevolent leader many lefties make him out to be.

However, the apologists and appeasers will continue to polish Chavez' knob.

Overall, S.A. governments are pretty damn corrupt anyway. For some reason they just can't get it together enough to have a strong democracy that reduces corruption and eventual collapse. The US can't do anything about it, it just has to run its course.

Right wing whacko sites, and another story about how a friend of a friend had her baby eaten by a rabid pack of socialists *yawn* you could at least find some common drivel from a mainstream corporate american site frantic about chavez, it is not that hard. -The op did :roll:

 

[Braznor]

You consider communism and nationalisation a good thing?

My good friend, you are beyond redemption....

 

[Steeplerot]

Originally posted by: Braznor
You consider communism and nationalisation a good thing?

My good friend, you are beyond redemption....

Communism? Link to chavez being a communist? :laugh:

And yes nationlism has its place as another poster said when a country is poor and being endlessly used by other countries.

We could use a bit of nationalization here with our oil companies and health care to keep up with other modern countries that have moved on from the outdated systems ripe with corporate corruption we hold on to.

 

[LegendKiller]

Originally posted by: Steeplerot

Originally posted by: LegendKiller
Ahem...


http://www.weeklystandard.com/Utilities...r_preview.asp?idArticle=2785&R=EB8DC9A


http://216.26.163.62/2003/c2_24.html


http://www.vcrisis.com/index.php?content=letters/200411061126

Article 350 of the 1999 constitution, drafted by the chavistas themselves, enshrines the right to disobey a government that undermines human rights. But a proposed terrorism law would turn many forms of civil disobedience, such as blocking streets, into terrorist acts, with correspondingly severe penalties. And a national police bill would put control of all local police forces, in effect, into the hands of the interior ministry.

I have a Candian friend who is a PhD political science student in Can. She did an internationa study in Venezuela last year, for a year. She states that Chavez is far from the benevolent leader many lefties make him out to be.

However, the apologists and appeasers will continue to polish Chavez' knob.

Overall, S.A. governments are pretty damn corrupt anyway. For some reason they just can't get it together enough to have a strong democracy that reduces corruption and eventual collapse. The US can't do anything about it, it just has to run its course.

Right wing whacko sites, and another story about how a friend of a friend had her baby eaten by a rabid pack of socialists *yawn* you could at least find some common drivel from a mainstream corporate american site frantic about chavez, it is not that hard. -The op did :roll:

Yeah, I forgot, the easiest way of reasoning from you or Dave, is to just inverse your side and call it whatever you want. Anybody who doesn't agree with your narrow definition of the world has to be a right wing whacko.

Here's a hint steeple, as soon as you stop doing that, then people just *might* listen to you.

Do you live in Venezuela steeple? Do you know any Venezuelans personally? I do and none of them think Chavez' idea of government is very good. Not all are even "right" or "rich". I went to school with some pretty common Venezuelans and I had yet to meet one who liked Chavez. What is funny is that I am sure it would comfort you to label me as some right-winger also, because thats what makes you comfortable about your illogical arguments. Pigeonhole and marginalize, you are no different from dave in that area.


Now, of course, you are going to label those as heresay or one-off evidence, which is the only way you can marginalize somebody without actually battling on a logical level.

Once Chavez becomes another Castro and people suffer, after he still suppresses opposition, I am sure you will make another excuse for him, just as the neo-cons make every excuse for this dictator.

 

[Steeplerot]

Like I said, another story about how a friend of a friend had her baby eaten by a rabid pack of socialists. Sure thing.

I mean, cmon, foxnews talks about him all the time, and newsmax too, it HAS to be true that he is an evil dictator. :roll:



Oh wait, here let me make up some BS and post it, then compare him to dave or something.

Doesent fly. I can say I am chavez twin brother in here, still means squat.

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: LegendKiller

Originally posted by: Steeplerot

Originally posted by: LegendKiller
Ahem...


http://www.weeklystandard.com/Utilities...r_preview.asp?idArticle=2785&R=EB8DC9A


http://216.26.163.62/2003/c2_24.html


http://www.vcrisis.com/index.php?content=letters/200411061126

Article 350 of the 1999 constitution, drafted by the chavistas themselves, enshrines the right to disobey a government that undermines human rights. But a proposed terrorism law would turn many forms of civil disobedience, such as blocking streets, into terrorist acts, with correspondingly severe penalties. And a national police bill would put control of all local police forces, in effect, into the hands of the interior ministry.

I have a Candian friend who is a PhD political science student in Can. She did an internationa study in Venezuela last year, for a year. She states that Chavez is far from the benevolent leader many lefties make him out to be.

However, the apologists and appeasers will continue to polish Chavez' knob.

Overall, S.A. governments are pretty damn corrupt anyway. For some reason they just can't get it together enough to have a strong democracy that reduces corruption and eventual collapse. The US can't do anything about it, it just has to run its course.

Right wing whacko sites, and another story about how a friend of a friend had her baby eaten by a rabid pack of socialists *yawn* you could at least find some common drivel from a mainstream corporate american site frantic about chavez, it is not that hard. -The op did :roll:

Yeah, I forgot, the easiest way of reasoning from you or Dave, is to just inverse your side and call it whatever you want. Anybody who doesn't agree with your narrow definition of the world has to be a right wing whacko.

Here's a hint steeple, as soon as you stop doing that, then people just *might* listen to you.

Do you live in Venezuela steeple? Do you know any Venezuelans personally? I do and none of them think Chavez' idea of government is very good. Not all are even "right" or "rich". I went to school with some pretty common Venezuelans and I had yet to meet one who liked Chavez. What is funny is that I am sure it would comfort you to label me as some right-winger also, because thats what makes you comfortable about your illogical arguments. Pigeonhole and marginalize, you are no different from dave in that area.


Now, of course, you are going to label those as heresay or one-off evidence, which is the only way you can marginalize somebody without actually battling on a logical level.

Once Chavez becomes another Castro and people suffer, after he still suppresses opposition, I am sure you will make another excuse for him, just as the neo-cons make every excuse for this dictator.

If he becomes a Castro, then act, but so far he is nothing of the sort.

 

[JEDIYoda]

Originally posted by: Forsythe
I don't see anything wrong with what he's trying to do. In all european countries persons can be reelected indefinently. Which is what he's trying to do.
Besides, nationalizing industry is a good thing for poor countries, that are simply being abused most of the time. I don't know how much he's done about that though, you're thinking about a different country.

do your homework before you say something unintelligent like-- In all european countries persons can be reelected indefinently. Which is what he's trying to do.

 

[JEDIYoda]

Originally posted by: Steeplerot
Like I said, another story about how a friend of a friend had her baby eaten by a rabid pack of socialists. Sure thing.

I mean, cmon, foxnews talks about him all the time, and newsmax too, it HAS to be true that he is an evil dictator. :roll:



Oh wait, here let me make up some BS and post it, then compare him to dave or something.

Doesent fly. I can say I am chavez twin brother in here, still means squat.

You probably are Chavez`s evil twin brother......go figure!!

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: Genx87
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,194519,00.html

This is hardly surprising to most people. Nationalizing industry, consolidating power, tossing out the free press, seeking to become permanently elected aka a dictator.

But all is great in old Venezuela according to some people.

If he was bought and paid for like the Saudi Rulers I seriously doubt thw Dub, his handlers and those who still support him would be up in arms over this.

 

[F1shF4t]

Originally posted by: Braznor
You consider communism and nationalisation a good thing?

My good friend, you are beyond redemption....

Maybe u need to understand what communism/socialism before making comments.
Think of it this way u got a stick, on one side u got socialism/communism where the working class people have all the power on the other side u got pure capitalism where minority of rich people controll everything, in the middle u got pure democracy where there is a ballance between the 2.

So u have 2 extremes minority and majority and then ballanced, and heres the point u go to far either way and u fall off the stick, and end up sh*t creeck. USSR fell of one end, USA at the moment is proceding to fall of the oposite end. I'm sure u can figure which end was which. (Thats my view on it which i sorta came up in 5 minutes, while writing this )

And heres the point to tie it in, the country is third world, its poor, it needs a strong leader who is open to posibilities to get it out of s**t creek. When ur that far under u need SOME drastic actions to change things, and i think these actions are the ones which people view as threats to themselves.


Disclamer, if i'm talking crap just point it out

 

[Steeplerot]

Originally posted by: JEDIYoda


You probably are Chavez`s evil twin brother......go figure!!

And I got your oil derrick right here..

 

[EagleKeeper]

If Bush was to propose the same thing for the US, the leftist would be up in arms.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: EagleKeeper
If Bush was to propose the same thing for the US, the leftist would be up in arms.

But the Right Wingers would be ok with it?

 

[EagleKeeper]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: EagleKeeper
If Bush was to propose the same thing for the US, the leftist would be up in arms.

But the Right Wingers would be ok with it?

I believe that it was the Repubs that pushed through the 22nd.

However, I was more interested in pointing out the hypocracy of some of the posters here.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: EagleKeeper

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: EagleKeeper
If Bush was to propose the same thing for the US, the leftist would be up in arms.

But the Right Wingers would be ok with it?

I believe that it was the Repubs that pushed through the 22nd.

However, I was more interested in pointing out the hypocracy of some of the posters here.

You know what is hypocrisy, the fact that nobody in the Dub's administration says much about the Saudi's and other Sheikdoms rich in oil where there really is no Democracy at all but shrieks on about Chavez and Venezuela. Could it be because the Saudi's are our bitch (or vice versa) and Chavez isn't?

 

[fitzov]

Originally posted by: EagleKeeper

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: EagleKeeper
If Bush was to propose the same thing for the US, the leftist would be up in arms.

But the Right Wingers would be ok with it?

I believe that it was the Repubs that pushed through the 22nd.

However, I was more interested in pointing out the hypocracy of some of the posters here.

The 22nd was the result of FDR being elected four times. He was a democrat.

Reagan was for a repeal of the amendment.

 

[FrancesBeansRevenge]

Originally posted by: Cruise51
Perhaps you could explain how he is a scumbag.

I hope I am very wrong, because I do admire some of his left wing goals, but he appears to be in the early days of setting the table for a permanent power grab.

 

[RichardE]

Originally posted by: Steeplerot
He is doing a good job, and it is a big job he cannot expect someone else to carry out, if people want him to continue the good work and vote for him screw what the US thinks, who cares if we have 4 year terms, we are another country. And no he did not chase the "free press" out, he is against US administration shills that represent the oil industry, not the people of his coutnry, like foxnews.

I agree with you 100% on this. He is doing an awsome job for his people. If they want to continue the prosperity they will agree with this. The main reason the US doesn't like it is he is against the US administration.

 

[zendari]

What if Bush did this?