University of Phoenix

[Jmman]

Well, I will throw my two cents in here. UOP is a fully accredited University, so these degrees are not like something from Kanuckistan U or something. Professional educators have reviewed their coursework, teachers, etc and found them to be acceptable, so that says a lot. And as far as "internet" degrees, you realize that virtually every University has online programs now, including the top schools in the country. Not that big of a deal. I took some online courses as well, and I see nothing wrong with that, except you have to be even more dedicated to get them done because you don't have the Prof breathing down your neck.....

 

[L1FE]

Originally posted by: hanoverphist

Originally posted by: Imdmn04

Originally posted by: zerocool84
I would think that a Master's from UoP is better than no Master's but I would understand many places not taking them seriously.

I throw away any resumes with UofP degrees, Masters or not. I prefer a top 10 engineering school Bachelor's over a UofP Masters any given day.

Yes, I'll miss the a few true good candidates with UofP degrees, but I don't got the time of the day to determine how good they really are in a short interview. Especially in this market, there are plenty of people from name brand universities for me to choose from, I am always going for those graduates first as opposed to UofP grads given that all other factors remain the same. I get 100 resumes, I am only going to do 5 phone interviews and 2 in person interviews for one spot, there are way too many candidates that graduated from real universities for me to choose from, UofP grads just don't stand out in this market.

what if their bachelors was from a name brand school? do you look at that before tossing them?

i dont have a UoP degree, so im not bitter. but i think people are letting the interwebz decide for them on these types of degrees. any degree is only worth what that person gets out of the program, and top of their class from a "name brand" school could still be an idiot, from what ive seen.

Not to put words in Imdmn04's mouth, but I think he meant that given a short time frame and limited knowledge about each candidate, he would rather take a chance on that guy who is "top of their class from a 'name brand' school" over the minuscule chance that the UofP candidate turns out to be a stud. There aren't any guarantees when it comes to hiring new people, but recruiters are looking for people with a higher chance of succeeding. That sometimes means discriminating against people who earn their degrees in PJs...

 

[hanoverphist]

Originally posted by: L1FE

Originally posted by: hanoverphist

Originally posted by: Imdmn04

Originally posted by: zerocool84
I would think that a Master's from UoP is better than no Master's but I would understand many places not taking them seriously.

I throw away any resumes with UofP degrees, Masters or not. I prefer a top 10 engineering school Bachelor's over a UofP Masters any given day.

Yes, I'll miss the a few true good candidates with UofP degrees, but I don't got the time of the day to determine how good they really are in a short interview. Especially in this market, there are plenty of people from name brand universities for me to choose from, I am always going for those graduates first as opposed to UofP grads given that all other factors remain the same. I get 100 resumes, I am only going to do 5 phone interviews and 2 in person interviews for one spot, there are way too many candidates that graduated from real universities for me to choose from, UofP grads just don't stand out in this market.

what if their bachelors was from a name brand school? do you look at that before tossing them?

i dont have a UoP degree, so im not bitter. but i think people are letting the interwebz decide for them on these types of degrees. any degree is only worth what that person gets out of the program, and top of their class from a "name brand" school could still be an idiot, from what ive seen.

Not to put words in Imdmn04's mouth, but I think he meant that given a short time frame and limited knowledge about each candidate, he would rather take a chance on that guy who is "top of their class from a 'name brand' school" over the minuscule chance that the UofP candidate turns out to be a stud. There aren't any guarantees when it comes to hiring new people, but recruiters are looking for people with a higher chance of succeeding. That sometimes means discriminating against people who earn their degrees in PJs...

that was partially my point as well, he is tossing out anything with "UoP" in it. what if that guy was top in his class prior to getting that UoP masters? hes tossing out perfectly good, and possibly very worthy hires based on his outlook on the UoP degree. short sighted to me.

 

[Insomniator]

Originally posted by: hanoverphist

Originally posted by: L1FE

Originally posted by: hanoverphist

Originally posted by: Imdmn04

Originally posted by: zerocool84
I would think that a Master's from UoP is better than no Master's but I would understand many places not taking them seriously.

I throw away any resumes with UofP degrees, Masters or not. I prefer a top 10 engineering school Bachelor's over a UofP Masters any given day.

Yes, I'll miss the a few true good candidates with UofP degrees, but I don't got the time of the day to determine how good they really are in a short interview. Especially in this market, there are plenty of people from name brand universities for me to choose from, I am always going for those graduates first as opposed to UofP grads given that all other factors remain the same. I get 100 resumes, I am only going to do 5 phone interviews and 2 in person interviews for one spot, there are way too many candidates that graduated from real universities for me to choose from, UofP grads just don't stand out in this market.

what if their bachelors was from a name brand school? do you look at that before tossing them?

i dont have a UoP degree, so im not bitter. but i think people are letting the interwebz decide for them on these types of degrees. any degree is only worth what that person gets out of the program, and top of their class from a "name brand" school could still be an idiot, from what ive seen.

Not to put words in Imdmn04's mouth, but I think he meant that given a short time frame and limited knowledge about each candidate, he would rather take a chance on that guy who is "top of their class from a 'name brand' school" over the minuscule chance that the UofP candidate turns out to be a stud. There aren't any guarantees when it comes to hiring new people, but recruiters are looking for people with a higher chance of succeeding. That sometimes means discriminating against people who earn their degrees in PJs...

that was partially my point as well, he is tossing out anything with "UoP" in it. what if that guy was top in his class prior to getting that UoP masters? hes tossing out perfectly good, and possibly very worthy hires based on his outlook on the UoP degree. short sighted to me.

Well the point remains that plenty of other candidates got both their undergrad and masters from real schools, so even if you were a great undergrad student at a real school, the last education you received was still a joke compared to another candidate.

The view of various schools and educations is so imperfect anyway. I went to rutgers... good school to many... didn't do jack for 4 years but still got a IT degree with a 3.5. No one outside of engineering or medical/dental did anything but drink for 4 years just waiting for that piece of paper. I'm sure there are 'terrible' schools that make kids work harder and learn a lot more than plenty of the usual cookie cutter universities.

 

[hanoverphist]

Originally posted by: Insomniator

Originally posted by: hanoverphist

Originally posted by: L1FE

Originally posted by: hanoverphist

Originally posted by: Imdmn04

Originally posted by: zerocool84
I would think that a Master's from UoP is better than no Master's but I would understand many places not taking them seriously.

I throw away any resumes with UofP degrees, Masters or not. I prefer a top 10 engineering school Bachelor's over a UofP Masters any given day.

Yes, I'll miss the a few true good candidates with UofP degrees, but I don't got the time of the day to determine how good they really are in a short interview. Especially in this market, there are plenty of people from name brand universities for me to choose from, I am always going for those graduates first as opposed to UofP grads given that all other factors remain the same. I get 100 resumes, I am only going to do 5 phone interviews and 2 in person interviews for one spot, there are way too many candidates that graduated from real universities for me to choose from, UofP grads just don't stand out in this market.

what if their bachelors was from a name brand school? do you look at that before tossing them?

i dont have a UoP degree, so im not bitter. but i think people are letting the interwebz decide for them on these types of degrees. any degree is only worth what that person gets out of the program, and top of their class from a "name brand" school could still be an idiot, from what ive seen.

Not to put words in Imdmn04's mouth, but I think he meant that given a short time frame and limited knowledge about each candidate, he would rather take a chance on that guy who is "top of their class from a 'name brand' school" over the minuscule chance that the UofP candidate turns out to be a stud. There aren't any guarantees when it comes to hiring new people, but recruiters are looking for people with a higher chance of succeeding. That sometimes means discriminating against people who earn their degrees in PJs...

that was partially my point as well, he is tossing out anything with "UoP" in it. what if that guy was top in his class prior to getting that UoP masters? hes tossing out perfectly good, and possibly very worthy hires based on his outlook on the UoP degree. short sighted to me.

Well the point remains that plenty of other candidates got both their undergrad and masters from real schools, so even if you were a great undergrad student at a real school, the last education you received was still a joke compared to another candidate.

The view of various schools and educations is so imperfect anyway. I went to rutgers... good school to many... didn't do jack for 4 years but still got a IT degree with a 3.5. No one outside of engineering or medical/dental did anything but drink for 4 years just waiting for that piece of paper. I'm sure there are 'terrible' schools that make kids work harder and learn a lot more than plenty of the usual cookie cutter universities.

read a little closer, he rejects UoP masters based on the school, and would accept a bachelors from a name brand school first. the masters guy still has a bachelors, and could be from the same school he prefers.

 

[DrPizza]

Originally posted by: Jmman
Well, I will throw my two cents in here. UOP is a fully accredited University, so these degrees are not like something from Kanuckistan U or something. Professional educators have reviewed their coursework, teachers, etc and found them to be acceptable, so that says a lot. And as far as "internet" degrees, you realize that virtually every University has online programs now, including the top schools in the country. Not that big of a deal. I took some online courses as well, and I see nothing wrong with that, except you have to be even more dedicated to get them done because you don't have the Prof breathing down your neck.....

I had to take an undergrad course that was a pre-requisite for several of my master's courses. Here's what I had to do each week: respond online to 2 discussion questions, and for each question, respond to two of the other students' responses. And, I had to take a 10 question quiz on the chapter to make sure I read the book that I didn't even own.

Here's what got people full credit on the responses: quoting a paragraph of the textbook that dealt with the question, even if only vaguely. And, for the responses to other students: "wow, I like your answer. It's almost the same as mine." It WAS the fucking same! You both quoted the same paragraph from the textbook (without any reference to where the quote came from = plagiarism and should have been an "F", but I wasn't the professor.)

The quiz questions would in no way assess if someone understood the material, but rather, were on minutia from the textbook. i.e. true or false "Ireland is the world's 2nd largest exporter of software." The killer was that some of the true/false questions were "trick" questions that you had to read carefully, and given that many situations change from year to year (such as the question above), and material in the textbook was at least several years old, it caused a few minor problems (for me.)

Midterm: 50 questions - 50 out of the previous 60 questions given on quizzes. Of course, after each quiz, you could see what the correct answers were, so you would know what the correct answer was. Final exam was a similar format. Each took me about 5 minutes to ace; would have been 4, but after successfully appealing my answers to 2 previous questions that I had correct (the textbook was incorrect & outdated on (at least) two pieces of minutia), I had to decide whether the professor bothered to correct the answers on the quiz or not. I quickly realized that it would cause him more grief if he had, because all the students sitting there with their textbooks open to take the quiz (rather than reviewing their old quizzes, or (another gasp) even remembering the answers to such simple questions) would come back crying later on that their answers were correct.

Oh, and a whole FIVE page paper! With 3 references!! This was a business course.


In all honesty, if I had 100 candidates for a job, 10 of them from real universities, 90 from online universities, I agree that I'd immediately narrow it down to the 10 students. And, that's a shame, really. In the online courses I took, there were some incredibly intelligent, hard working people. While 1/3 of the class had responses of "nice answer, I like your answer" counting as a significant portion of their grade, these other people had very intelligent, page long responses that demonstrated a great deal of thought, comprehension, and intelligence. And, their responses also seemed to often demonstrate a frustration with these "accredited, reviewed" courses that had all appearances of merely selling a piece of paper (the degree) to undeserving people for minimal work.

 

[Ns1]

The fact that there is this much discussion over whether or not UoP degrees carry any weight should shy you away from UoP

 

[Jmman]

Originally posted by: DrPizza

Originally posted by: Jmman
Well, I will throw my two cents in here. UOP is a fully accredited University, so these degrees are not like something from Kanuckistan U or something. Professional educators have reviewed their coursework, teachers, etc and found them to be acceptable, so that says a lot. And as far as "internet" degrees, you realize that virtually every University has online programs now, including the top schools in the country. Not that big of a deal. I took some online courses as well, and I see nothing wrong with that, except you have to be even more dedicated to get them done because you don't have the Prof breathing down your neck.....

I had to take an undergrad course that was a pre-requisite for several of my master's courses. Here's what I had to do each week: respond online to 2 discussion questions, and for each question, respond to two of the other students' responses. And, I had to take a 10 question quiz on the chapter to make sure I read the book that I didn't even own.

Here's what got people full credit on the responses: quoting a paragraph of the textbook that dealt with the question, even if only vaguely. And, for the responses to other students: "wow, I like your answer. It's almost the same as mine." It WAS the fucking same! You both quoted the same paragraph from the textbook (without any reference to where the quote came from = plagiarism and should have been an "F", but I wasn't the professor.)

The quiz questions would in no way assess if someone understood the material, but rather, were on minutia from the textbook. i.e. true or false "Ireland is the world's 2nd largest exporter of software." The killer was that some of the true/false questions were "trick" questions that you had to read carefully, and given that many situations change from year to year (such as the question above), and material in the textbook was at least several years old, it caused a few minor problems (for me.)

Midterm: 50 questions - 50 out of the previous 60 questions given on quizzes. Of course, after each quiz, you could see what the correct answers were, so you would know what the correct answer was. Final exam was a similar format. Each took me about 5 minutes to ace; would have been 4, but after successfully appealing my answers to 2 previous questions that I had correct (the textbook was incorrect & outdated on (at least) two pieces of minutia), I had to decide whether the professor bothered to correct the answers on the quiz or not. I quickly realized that it would cause him more grief if he had, because all the students sitting there with their textbooks open to take the quiz (rather than reviewing their old quizzes, or (another gasp) even remembering the answers to such simple questions) would come back crying later on that their answers were correct.

Oh, and a whole FIVE page paper! With 3 references!! This was a business course.


In all honesty, if I had 100 candidates for a job, 10 of them from real universities, 90 from online universities, I agree that I'd immediately narrow it down to the 10 students. And, that's a shame, really. In the online courses I took, there were some incredibly intelligent, hard working people. While 1/3 of the class had responses of "nice answer, I like your answer" counting as a significant portion of their grade, these other people had very intelligent, page long responses that demonstrated a great deal of thought, comprehension, and intelligence. And, their responses also seemed to often demonstrate a frustration with these "accredited, reviewed" courses that had all appearances of merely selling a piece of paper (the degree) to undeserving people for minimal work.

I think that is your answer right there. We always chuckled about "business classes" where I went to school. You had calculus, and then you had "business calculus" that seemed better suited to a 10 yr old......:laugh:

 

[daniel1113]

Originally posted by: DrPizza
In all honesty, if I had 100 candidates for a job, 10 of them from real universities, 90 from online universities, I agree that I'd immediately narrow it down to the 10 students. And, that's a shame, really. In the online courses I took, there were some incredibly intelligent, hard working people. While 1/3 of the class had responses of "nice answer, I like your answer" counting as a significant portion of their grade, these other people had very intelligent, page long responses that demonstrated a great deal of thought, comprehension, and intelligence. And, their responses also seemed to often demonstrate a frustration with these "accredited, reviewed" courses that had all appearances of merely selling a piece of paper (the degree) to undeserving people for minimal work.

While not directly related, this is why I hated seeing idiots squeak by when I was an engineering student. The reputation of the school and engineering program is, at least in the long term, based on the quality of students that graduate and represent the program. As the number of idiots goes up, the reputation of the program goes down, even for those of us that did exceptionally well. And once the reputation of the program comes into question, as is the case with UoP, it's hard to convince other people that your education is a valuable asset. As NS1 mentioned above, the fact that so many people question a degree from UoP should throw up a red flag whether it's justified or not. Perception is everything,

 

[Nightfall]

I am currently taking classes at Davenport University and doing a mix of online and in class study for my Masters degree. I like the flexibility of the online courses but the in class ones are a good break from the norm. You get more time to network and such in those classes as well. That being said, just like in any class, you get what you put into it. There are some classes I have not had to work hard in that I got excellent grades in. Then you have the classes you work your ass off in and when you get a B you are excited. In the end, it all comes down to the professor.

I see some people here, like DrPizza, basing an entire degree program on ONE undergrad online course. Its like saying that you won't attend an Ivy League school because of one professor that didn't work the classes' ass off or one professor for doing a bad job. You aren't going to base your entire degree program on one professor or class so why would you do that for an online university. No matter what school you go to, you are going to encounter a variety of professors and courses. Some will be easy. Others will be hard. Which is why its important for you to get as much out of the class and degree program as possible.

I have found my online courses to be harder than the in class ones. The latest online course I just took really was balls to the wall. I spent 6-9 hours a week outside of class doing papers and a group project. Seems that some of the in class ones are very social and not as much material is covered. Its more like a networking or socializing 3-4 hour session than anything. The hardest part for me in those classes are the tests as I am not the greatest test taker.

So, would I go to UofP? I opted for a local university and their degree program instead. I wasn't sold on the whole idea of a online degree program, which is why I opted for a in class and online method of studying. In the end, the online method is very convenient but harder for those who are not self motivated. Also, just as it was with all my undergrad classes, the professor dictates how hard the class will be. Some will be hard. Some will be easy. Some will be right in the middle. Its up to the student to get as much out of the class as possible in the end.

 

[SagaLore]

Do their Master's degrees carry any weight?

Absolutely not. None of their degrees carry any weight. In fact, displaying UOP on your resume will get you filtered out really quick with a lot of employers.

edit:
Let me before specific. As far as the IT industry, no. Perhaps with other fields.

 

[Fingolfin269]

I just think it's funny that most of us are probably internet fiends, computer fiends, tech fiends, etc... and yet we are still unable to process the fact that some online schools are REAL. What is the point of accrediting a university if it just going to be ignored as fake?

Get with the times people.

(I do not have a UoP degree... just pointing out the 'funny' fact that even on a tech savvy type forum even we do not accept this stuff as 'real' yet)

Give it 5-10 more years.

 

[daniel1113]

Originally posted by: Fingolfin269
I just think it's funny that most of us are probably internet fiends, computer fiends, tech fiends, etc... and yet we are still unable to process the fact that some online schools are REAL. What is the point of accrediting a university if it just going to be ignored as fake?

Get with the times people.

(I do not have a UoP degree... just pointing out the 'funny' fact that even on a tech savvy type forum even we do not accept this stuff as 'real' yet)

Give it 5-10 more years.

I don't think anyone here has said anything bad about internet courses, just internet courses from UoP. I doubt an internet course from an ivy league school would be questioned by anyone here.

 

[JS80]

Originally posted by: hanoverphist
read a little closer, he rejects UoP masters based on the school, and would accept a bachelors from a name brand school first. the masters guy still has a bachelors, and could be from the same school he prefers.

You're talking about a unicorn here. No one with a wharton undergrad is going to have a UoP MBA so it's a moot point.

 

[JS80]

I take back my previous statement that I would trash a UoP resume. I would consider if it was for a $26k accounting clerk position and I wanted to fill it with someone who would be complacent and would be a good robot.

 

[Nightfall]

Originally posted by: daniel1113

Originally posted by: Fingolfin269
I just think it's funny that most of us are probably internet fiends, computer fiends, tech fiends, etc... and yet we are still unable to process the fact that some online schools are REAL. What is the point of accrediting a university if it just going to be ignored as fake?

Get with the times people.

(I do not have a UoP degree... just pointing out the 'funny' fact that even on a tech savvy type forum even we do not accept this stuff as 'real' yet)

Give it 5-10 more years.

I don't think anyone here has said anything bad about internet courses, just internet courses from UoP. I doubt an internet course from an ivy league school would be questioned by anyone here.

The Ivy league schools are the last to change, which is a shame. If it wasn't for the smaller universities doing this, we would still be going to class. It wasn't until the midsized accredited universities started making money and then the Ivy league schools started looking at online classes.

 

[SP33Demon]

If they're accredited with an organization that you respect, then why the hell not?

 

[Nightfall]

Originally posted by: SP33Demon
If they're accredited with an organization that you respect, then why the hell not?

The only danger to UofP is that they have a below average reputation with the community. Yes, they are accredited. Yes, they have good teachers. If the community has a problem with them though, it may reflect poorly upon your resume. Thats the main reason I decided to attend a different university.

 

[DrPizza]

Originally posted by: Nightfall
I see some people here, like DrPizza, basing an entire degree program on ONE undergrad online course. Its like saying that you won't attend an Ivy League school because of one professor that didn't work the classes' ass off or one professor for doing a bad job. You aren't going to base your entire degree program on one professor or class so why would you do that for an online university. No matter what school you go to, you are going to encounter a variety of professors and courses. Some will be easy. Others will be hard. Which is why its important for you to get as much out of the class and degree program as possible.

I used that one class as an example. If you read my other post, I have a master's degree from an online accredited university. I simply needed the piece of paper for my teaching credentials. As I live in the middle of nowhere, and as a teacher, my schedule is a hell of a lot more than 8 to 3 (as some people think; dream on), plus with a family, and a farm to take care of, commuting 1 1/2 to 2 hours each way to another school was out of the question. Even among courses for my master's degree, the experience was the same. Not necessarily for every class, but for a large portion of them. Idiots were able to squeak through. In hindsight, it does seem that it was a more frequent occurrence in the courses that also had business majors (MBA, etc.) enrolled, rather than the more strictly education courses.

Granted, there were a few courses that were unbelievably rigorous. I drove to my school (where I teach) early on a Sunday, ready to take my midterm exams. Each exam would allow you to start it only once - it had to be completed in one sitting. I expected to be home well before dinner. First midterm took me about an hour to complete. Got an A. Second midterm "answer 7 of the following 10 questions." So far, so good. "Each response must be a minimum of 2 pages long, double spaced, 1 inch margins, Times New Roman font, and must contain at least 2 sources in addition to your textbook to justify your response. You must cite your references, and these do not count toward your 2 page minimum.

in other words, WTF!!? The bare minimum for my midterm was a 14 page paper, with 15 cited references (had to include the textbook.) In the end, mine was around 20 pages, about 20 sources; 12 hours for one midterm. Got an A. Got called to the Superintendent's office wondering why I was in the school at 2am.

So, yes, they can be rigorous. Unfortunately, the classes I took which were not rigorous leads ME to not place as much value on an online degree as I would on a degree that required attendance at a university. Fortunately, for me though, my transcripts and diploma merely show which university I attended, not that the courses were online.

 

[OCGuy]

Originally posted by: SagaLore


edit:
Let me before specific. As far as the IT industry, no. Perhaps with other fields.

UoP graduate?




I kid!

 

[aldamon]

I'm curious about the timeline with these posts. Were these people already employed when they decided to get advanced degrees from UoP or did they get the degrees first and then get hired because of the degrees? Big difference.

Originally posted by: Kanalua
My uncle has a PhD and MBA (Accounting) from University of Phoenix. He does well for himself, making 6 figures.

Originally posted by: dlock13
My brother got his Master's from UoP, and he lives in Dallas, works at the Jack in the Box headquarters as the Marketing Director making 6 figures. I'd say he's doing pretty decent for himself.

He even said if he wanted to, he could have flown to the UoP and been in the graduation ceremonies.

 

[IAteYourMother]

Originally posted by: Fingolfin269
I just think it's funny that most of us are probably internet fiends, computer fiends, tech fiends, etc... and yet we are still unable to process the fact that some online schools are REAL. What is the point of accrediting a university if it just going to be ignored as fake?

Get with the times people.

(I do not have a UoP degree... just pointing out the 'funny' fact that even on a tech savvy type forum even we do not accept this stuff as 'real' yet)

Give it 5-10 more years.

Just because it's a school doesn't mean it's a good school.

 

[Syrch]

Funny as I'm reading this thread an employee that works with me is getting her Masters at UoP

 

[DrPizza]

Originally posted by: Syrch
Funny as I'm reading this thread an employee that works with me is getting her Masters at UoP

But, if you have only a bachelor's degree & she has a master's degree, even if "only" from UoP, guess who has a better chance of advancement in the company. I know of several situations where people needed an advanced degree - merely a piece of paper - before they were able to advance. They had already proven their skills, intelligence, and dedication to the company, and in at least one of those cases it was suggested to them that they get a particular degree, because so and so was going to retire in 2 years ("hint hint wink wink nudge nudge")

 

[Fingolfin269]

Originally posted by: daniel1113

Originally posted by: Fingolfin269
I just think it's funny that most of us are probably internet fiends, computer fiends, tech fiends, etc... and yet we are still unable to process the fact that some online schools are REAL. What is the point of accrediting a university if it just going to be ignored as fake?

Get with the times people.

(I do not have a UoP degree... just pointing out the 'funny' fact that even on a tech savvy type forum even we do not accept this stuff as 'real' yet)

Give it 5-10 more years.

I don't think anyone here has said anything bad about internet courses, just internet courses from UoP. I doubt an internet course from an ivy league school would be questioned by anyone here.

That's true but really what is being bashed is an online only university. As long as it is accredited I don't see what the problem is. I can't even remember the number of times I showed up to class just to sit there and doze/do something other than pay attention to the prof. Does it really matter if you're in a lecture sitting in a room with other real peope vs. sitting in your living room?