Universal Health Care in the U.S.?

[Feldenak]

Originally posted by: SuperTool

Originally posted by: Feldenak

No, I don't support Universal Health Care. Neither my fault nor my problem that some people don't have health insurance...in other words, I like my paycheck and prefer to keep it.

Oh, but it is your problem. If some uninsured shmuck gets SARS doesn't go see a doctor, and sits next to you on a plane, now it's a problem for you. Would you preffer to keep your paycheck or your life in that situation?

If some uninsured shmuck infects me with SARS I'll go see a doctor. Since the mortality rate for SARS is about 4%, I'll take those odds.

 

[4Lclovergirl]

Not to mention that anyone with SARS probably came from another counrty that doens't have UHC anyway... or if they are uninsured, chaces are they can't afford to go to China to contract it. And besides, you can get it from insured people as well as unisured. You think the virus is selective? It's contagious the whole time you have it, not just after you see a Dr. and they give you meds.

 

[jteef]

only if you can opt out

 

[SuperTool]

Originally posted by: Feldenak

Originally posted by: SuperTool

Originally posted by: Feldenak

No, I don't support Universal Health Care. Neither my fault nor my problem that some people don't have health insurance...in other words, I like my paycheck and prefer to keep it.

Oh, but it is your problem. If some uninsured shmuck gets SARS doesn't go see a doctor, and sits next to you on a plane, now it's a problem for you. Would you preffer to keep your paycheck or your life in that situation?

If some uninsured shmuck infects me with SARS I'll go see a doctor. Since the mortality rate for SARS is about 4%, I'll take those odds.

Hey, that's a valid viewpoint. We all take chances.
But at some point, especially with bioterrorism and drug resistant infections on the rise, you may get some odds that are not so good.
What the threshold for justifying some basic universal health coverage is, I don't know.

 

[HombrePequeno]

No thanks.

 

[FoBoT]

more federal government welfare? no thank you

 

[ElFenix]

heck, theres people out there that are risk takers and don't want to spend on health insurance.

 

[Feldenak]

Originally posted by: SuperTool

Originally posted by: Feldenak

Originally posted by: SuperTool

Originally posted by: Feldenak

No, I don't support Universal Health Care. Neither my fault nor my problem that some people don't have health insurance...in other words, I like my paycheck and prefer to keep it.

Oh, but it is your problem. If some uninsured shmuck gets SARS doesn't go see a doctor, and sits next to you on a plane, now it's a problem for you. Would you preffer to keep your paycheck or your life in that situation?

If some uninsured shmuck infects me with SARS I'll go see a doctor. Since the mortality rate for SARS is about 4%, I'll take those odds.

Hey, that's a valid viewpoint. We all take chances.
But at some point, especially with bioterrorism and drug resistant infections on the rise, you may get some odds that are not so good.
What the threshold for justifying some basic universal health coverage is, I don't know.

In my opinion, there is no threshold for justifying basic UHC. It's just another burden on society.

 

[SuperTool]

Originally posted by: 4Lclovergirl
Not to mention that anyone with SARS probably came from another counrty that doens't have UHC anyway... or if they are uninsured, chaces are they can't afford to go to China to contract it. And besides, you can get it from insured people as well as unisured. You think the virus is selective? It's contagious the whole time you have it, not just after you see a Dr. and they give you meds.

I was just trying to make a point that health of others does have an effect on your health, and it is your problem too.
Now, whether it's enough of a problem to justify paying more taxes for universal health care, that's a different question.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Originally posted by: DanJ
relax on the double posts 🙂 that's 2 in one thread! 😉

LOL, how does that happen? 😕

I think I need some :wine: or a :beer:

 

[DanJ]

Originally posted by: Feldenak
In my opinion, there is no threshold for justifying basic UHC. It's just another burden on society.

I'm sure that dying kid in the ghetto feels the same way. Improving quality of life for those near the bottom will improve society, not burden it.

 

[Feldenak]

Originally posted by: DanJ

Originally posted by: Feldenak
In my opinion, there is no threshold for justifying basic UHC. It's just another burden on society.

I'm sure that dying kid in the ghetto feels the same way. Improving quality of life for those near the bottom will improve society, not burden it.

Sorry, the guilt angle goes nowhere with me. If it takes money from my pocket, it is a burden on me. That "dying kid in the ghetto" isn't my problem nor my concern.

 

[SuperTool]

Originally posted by: Feldenak

Originally posted by: SuperTool

Originally posted by: Feldenak

Originally posted by: SuperTool

Originally posted by: Feldenak

No, I don't support Universal Health Care. Neither my fault nor my problem that some people don't have health insurance...in other words, I like my paycheck and prefer to keep it.

Oh, but it is your problem. If some uninsured shmuck gets SARS doesn't go see a doctor, and sits next to you on a plane, now it's a problem for you. Would you preffer to keep your paycheck or your life in that situation?

If some uninsured shmuck infects me with SARS I'll go see a doctor. Since the mortality rate for SARS is about 4%, I'll take those odds.

Hey, that's a valid viewpoint. We all take chances.
But at some point, especially with bioterrorism and drug resistant infections on the rise, you may get some odds that are not so good.
What the threshold for justifying some basic universal health coverage is, I don't know.

In my opinion, there is no threshold for justifying basic UHC. It's just another burden on society.

Having a large quantity of uninsured is also a burden on society. The burden would be lower if people got preventative care as opposed to waiting to be really sick to go to emergency room.

 

[DanJ]

Originally posted by: Feldenak

Originally posted by: DanJ

Originally posted by: Feldenak
In my opinion, there is no threshold for justifying basic UHC. It's just another burden on society.

I'm sure that dying kid in the ghetto feels the same way. Improving quality of life for those near the bottom will improve society, not burden it.

Sorry, the guilt angle goes nowhere with me. If it takes money from my pocket, it is a burden on me. That "dying kid in the ghetto" isn't my problem nor my concern.

Then I guess what you said above, about it "burdening society" was just a cover of your true thought, that it burdens you personally. Because society, last I checked, consisted of everyone.

Right?

 

[4Lclovergirl]

ok, I don't relaly feel this way, but maybe I do... I don't know, I know I don't favor it, but in the deep recesses of my mind, I am a selfish person, and I think survial of the fittest. If they can't afford healthcare, why whould the be weel enough to reproduce etc etc etc.

 

[SuperTool]

Originally posted by: 4Lclovergirl
ok, I don't relaly feel this way, but maybe I do... I don't know, I know I don't favor it, but in the deep recesses of my mind, I am a selfish person, and I think survial of the fittest. If they can't afford healthcare, why whould the be weel enough to reproduce etc etc etc.

You do know people reproduced before we had healthcare? 😉
I don't think having an HMO is a prerequisite for reproduction. 😀

 

[DanJ]

Originally posted by: 4Lclovergirl
ok, I don't relaly feel this way, but maybe I do... I don't know, I know I don't favor it, but in the deep recesses of my mind, I am a selfish person, and I think survial of the fittest. If they can't afford healthcare, why whould the be weel enough to reproduce etc etc etc.

People are born into bad situations.

 

[Mill]

Hell no.

 

[yoda291]

The healthcare system needs reform....what reform exactly, I'm still not sure.

 

[Feldenak]

Originally posted by: DanJ

Originally posted by: Feldenak

Originally posted by: DanJ

Originally posted by: Feldenak
In my opinion, there is no threshold for justifying basic UHC. It's just another burden on society.

I'm sure that dying kid in the ghetto feels the same way. Improving quality of life for those near the bottom will improve society, not burden it.

Sorry, the guilt angle goes nowhere with me. If it takes money from my pocket, it is a burden on me. That "dying kid in the ghetto" isn't my problem nor my concern.

Then I guess what you said above, about it "burdening society" was just a cover of your true thought, that it burdens you personally. Because society, last I checked, consisted of everyone.

Right?

I would have thought when I said "In my opinion, there is no threshold for justifying basic UHC." would have given you a clue at my true thought.

There are plenty of charitable organizations where people can get assistance for a multitude of things. Those type of organizations are not only more effective and more efficient than government programs (by and large), they require no tax burden on working people.

 

[Thegonagle]

Your taxes would go up a bit, your employer?s taxes would go up a bit. Of course, your medical insurance premiums (and your employer?s premiums) would disappear. It?s a trade off.

 

[BatmanNate]

Originally posted by: DanJ

Originally posted by: Feldenak

Originally posted by: DanJ

Originally posted by: Feldenak
In my opinion, there is no threshold for justifying basic UHC. It's just another burden on society.

I'm sure that dying kid in the ghetto feels the same way. Improving quality of life for those near the bottom will improve society, not burden it.

Sorry, the guilt angle goes nowhere with me. If it takes money from my pocket, it is a burden on me. That "dying kid in the ghetto" isn't my problem nor my concern.

Then I guess what you said above, about it "burdening society" was just a cover of your true thought, that it burdens you personally. Because society, last I checked, consisted of everyone.

Right?

Putting the good of society ahead of the good of the individual is the core of socialist ideals and freedom cannot exist in this sort scenario. If my money, which is the representation of my work and my ability, should be redistributed without my say to those who are deemed to be more in need of it then am I free? Gussy it up however you'd like, but regardless of your medical, financial, or other state of "need" you are still not entitled to the work of others lest they become slaves.

 

[SuperTool]

But you pay a tax whether you want to or not. If someone doesn't get preventative care, and then goes to emergency room, and the hospital treats them at the costs of thousands, chances are they won't be able to pay for that, and the hospital will pass the cost onto other patients.
Preventative care is much cheaper than emergency room care.

 

[Feldenak]

Originally posted by: SuperTool
But you pay a tax whether you want to or not.

That's a whole different thread. I'm going to try and refrain from going off on the stupid taxes & entitlement programs in the U.S.

If someone doesn't get preventative care, and then goes to emergency room, and the hospital treats them at the costs of thousands, chances are they won't be able to pay for that, and the hospital will pass the cost onto other patients.
Preventative care is much cheaper than emergency room care.

That arguement can be used in a whole slew of debates....shoplifting for example. I don't steal but the cost of theft prevention is incorporated into the price of items at stores.

 

[SuperTool]

Originally posted by: Feldenak

Originally posted by: SuperTool
But you pay a tax whether you want to or not.

That's a whole different thread. I'm going to try and refrain from going off on the stupid taxes & entitlement programs in the U.S.

If someone doesn't get preventative care, and then goes to emergency room, and the hospital treats them at the costs of thousands, chances are they won't be able to pay for that, and the hospital will pass the cost onto other patients.
Preventative care is much cheaper than emergency room care.

That arguement can be used in a whole slew of debates....shoplifting for example. I don't steal but the cost of theft prevention is incorporated into the price of items at stores.

Yes, but if the cost is passed on to you one way or the other, wouldn't you rather pay for lower cost prevention, than higher cost emergency care?