you'd be surprised what unions have done to help ALL workers in America. 8 hour work day for one, unions are the reason we have that.
you'd be surprised what unions have done to help ALL workers in America. 8 hour work day for one, unions are the reason we have that.
ever hear of labor staffing companies? Tradesman international, CLC, etc. I can call tomorrow and get 20-30 people ready to work within a few days. Hell there about as expensive as union labor but they dont have that elitist attitude.
o dear dear dear. Yet again youre arguing stuff that noone else is. We have almost all agreed that unions served a purpose. They did help. We also have almost all agreed that they have become "fat" and no longer care about the interests of the common worker.
DainBramaged
Lifer
- Jun 19, 2003
- 23,454
- 41
- 91
meltdown75
Lifer
- Nov 17, 2004
- 37,548
- 7
- 81
ok do that, when has anyone in the construction world ever done that....close to never. why is that? cause it would be poor quality work. please dont be ignorant
union contractors dont have to agree, they can negotiate, and i think you might be misinformed, its more likely its $5 and hour over the course of 3 years
...we have. Not on that scale more like 10-15 guys.
poor quality work you say. And unions provide exceptional quality work? Wrong again. O wait but they train you with a mentoring program and everything. Doesnt mean shit when you cant even solder or thread a pipe properly.
Dont talk to me about being ignorant when you cant argue on the points that everyone else is and when all of your off topic examples (8 hour work week) are old as shit. Come talk to me when you can argue the points everyone else is and when you can back up your stuff with CURRENT examples.
Good day sir.
meltdown75
Lifer
- Nov 17, 2004
- 37,548
- 7
- 81
the problem with unions, and i think i've posted this in every union thread i've seen is:
unions basically function as a monopoly. the reason large monopolistic companies were able to take advantage of workers in the past was the disparity in size between the large corporation and the individual worker. even if on the national scale the company in question was not a monopoly, the company running the mine as the only major business in town, is basically a monopoly employer. hence in order to balance this we created unions. a monopoly source of labor to check / balance the monopoly source of employment.
with ease of transportation and ease of information, situation has change completely to the point where, the employer is no longer monopolistic but the union is. now most workers are given a much larger selection of employers they can appeal to, but the employers (all of them) must still deal with the same union.
hence, the answer is, yes, unions have a purpose and do serve that purpose, however, they should not be allowed to monopolize the source of labor. there must be competition in order to serve as a check / balance.
unions basically function as a monopoly. the reason large monopolistic companies were able to take advantage of workers in the past was the disparity in size between the large corporation and the individual worker. even if on the national scale the company in question was not a monopoly, the company running the mine as the only major business in town, is basically a monopoly employer. hence in order to balance this we created unions. a monopoly source of labor to check / balance the monopoly source of employment.
with ease of transportation and ease of information, situation has change completely to the point where, the employer is no longer monopolistic but the union is. now most workers are given a much larger selection of employers they can appeal to, but the employers (all of them) must still deal with the same union.
hence, the answer is, yes, unions have a purpose and do serve that purpose, however, they should not be allowed to monopolize the source of labor. there must be competition in order to serve as a check / balance.
ok well im not part of the pipefitters union, i was talking about the electrical union. and we have a training committee that makes sure electricians coming out of the union know their shit. NJATC so maybe your piper fitters just have a shitty apprentice program?
now im not stating unions are the best ever. i dont agree with what the writers did. just like everything in this world unions have flaws, especially if you have shitty people running them, i was just commenting on my local and my union.
non union electricians make around $18 an hour. this is rediculous for someone who went to school for 4 years and was treated like shit for atleast one of those years. my local makes $26.72 and $28 this summer, i think this is fair. and trust me the union companies here are making money hand over fist
Red Dawn
Elite Member
- Jun 4, 2001
- 57,529
- 3
- 0
On the other hand there's Construction Companies that would fuck their employees every chance they got if it weren't for the Union. In fact even with the Union they still often fuck over their employees because when the housing industry goes south, like it has recently under President Shit for Brains, the Union caves in just to keep their members working.
My experience with unions:
I was in Las Vegas supervising the setup of my company's booth at a trade show. Part of our display was a stand with a little pool of water in it. We had to get a union plumber $300 to come hook up a hose and put about 15 gallons of water in the display tub. I could not do this myself, the faucets were all locked. I love unions!
I was in Las Vegas supervising the setup of my company's booth at a trade show. Part of our display was a stand with a little pool of water in it. We had to get a union plumber $300 to come hook up a hose and put about 15 gallons of water in the display tub. I could not do this myself, the faucets were all locked. I love unions!
3chordcharlie
Diamond Member
- Mar 30, 2004
- 9,859
- 1
- 81
The contracts those staffing companies make employers sign should be illegal, along with their payouts to the actual 'staff'.
Regardless, even $50 an hour to hook up a fucking hose? Give me a break. The fact that I was FORCED to use union labor is what gets me, there was no option to do it yourself.
you can blame the event services at the convention center you were at. they chose who they have do their electrical/plumbing/AV and so on. and usually the convention center gets a cut of it. the one i used to work at was 60/40 convention center getting 60 and the sub-contractor getting 40. don't just blame the union for things you dont all about
Argue and justify all you want, all parties involved are part of the bullshit. It's not like the unions are unwilling participants in this set up. Its structured like that on purpose, to bend you over any chance they get.
Svnla
Lifer
- Nov 10, 2003
- 17,986
- 1,388
- 126
Ok, here we go:
I worked with the largest automotive company for almost 10 years, right after college. I also had to deal with union people so I know a few things first hand (not heard from dad/uncle/brother/the man behind the tree/etc.). I don't know about other unions such as the IBEW so I won't comment about them but I know a thing or two about UAW.
1. True. Everyone agree that unions did many good things back then, fought for 40 hrs work week/better conditions/etc. No one will dispute those at all.
2. FAULT. Maybe it is true in your area/work but not here. I worked along side with UAW folks on the assemly line and I will tell you that over 90-95% of the jobs can be done by anyone that can read/follow instructions. Yes, there are a few jobs that require skills such as bodyworks, repaint to name a few but to say you can't get your projects (large,medium,small) done WITHOUT unions are full of BS.
3. UAW members will able to transfer to other plants and get pay the same or better if he or she is working on the same job class. UAW important word is SENORITY. If a moron with higher senority, he can pick and chose the easiest job over a hardworking guy.
4. Better pay, yes. Better work? LOL.... we all know how well domestic vehicles are made. No further comment needed. Are they better than they used to be? Yes, they have no other choice but go up. But is it as good as imports? You tell me. GM used to have over 50% market share in the US. How much is it now? Less than 20% IIRC. Domestic makers are losing billions while Toyota/Honda and the likes are making billions WITHOUT all the gimmicks like rebates.
Unions benefit all involved? LOL. Sure if you like to deal with arrogance, lazy, incompetent,
"It is not my job/Call my union rep/I will write you up because you pick up a piece of trash off the floor (I supposed to call the environmental guy to pick that up and shouldn't do that by myself)/Mangement is out to screw us (because we asked them to pay a few co pay dollars for their extreme generous health benefits).
Now I am not saying ALL UAW members are like that. Some of them are hardworking and nice. I would say about 10-20% of UAW at my plants can compete with anyone, but the rest of them? I will say good luck.
If UAW is so good and so strong, look at the last contract they signed with the big three. You make the call.
Last but not least, unions numbers, especially the UAW, are going down. IIRC, UAW numbers used to be over 1 million, now I believe it is around 250K or less.
I worked with the largest automotive company for almost 10 years, right after college. I also had to deal with union people so I know a few things first hand (not heard from dad/uncle/brother/the man behind the tree/etc.). I don't know about other unions such as the IBEW so I won't comment about them but I know a thing or two about UAW.
1. True. Everyone agree that unions did many good things back then, fought for 40 hrs work week/better conditions/etc. No one will dispute those at all.
2. FAULT. Maybe it is true in your area/work but not here. I worked along side with UAW folks on the assemly line and I will tell you that over 90-95% of the jobs can be done by anyone that can read/follow instructions. Yes, there are a few jobs that require skills such as bodyworks, repaint to name a few but to say you can't get your projects (large,medium,small) done WITHOUT unions are full of BS.
3. UAW members will able to transfer to other plants and get pay the same or better if he or she is working on the same job class. UAW important word is SENORITY. If a moron with higher senority, he can pick and chose the easiest job over a hardworking guy.
4. Better pay, yes. Better work? LOL.... we all know how well domestic vehicles are made. No further comment needed. Are they better than they used to be? Yes, they have no other choice but go up. But is it as good as imports? You tell me. GM used to have over 50% market share in the US. How much is it now? Less than 20% IIRC. Domestic makers are losing billions while Toyota/Honda and the likes are making billions WITHOUT all the gimmicks like rebates.
Unions benefit all involved? LOL. Sure if you like to deal with arrogance, lazy, incompetent,
"It is not my job/Call my union rep/I will write you up because you pick up a piece of trash off the floor (I supposed to call the environmental guy to pick that up and shouldn't do that by myself)/Mangement is out to screw us (because we asked them to pay a few co pay dollars for their extreme generous health benefits).
Now I am not saying ALL UAW members are like that. Some of them are hardworking and nice. I would say about 10-20% of UAW at my plants can compete with anyone, but the rest of them? I will say good luck.
If UAW is so good and so strong, look at the last contract they signed with the big three. You make the call.
Last but not least, unions numbers, especially the UAW, are going down. IIRC, UAW numbers used to be over 1 million, now I believe it is around 250K or less.
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