Unions: I'm Part Of One. IBEW

[waggy]

Originally posted by: Throckmorton
I don't understand what's wrong with the writers' guild? They want residuals from internet revenue, the networks think they shouldn't get any. How is this not a reason to strike?

i agree. i think they should. yeah i am pissed that some shows are ending but they deserve to be paid for the work they did.

 

[bctbct]

Originally posted by: waggy

Originally posted by: bctbct

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

Originally posted by: Eeezee
I'm a member of a union (UAW - United AutoWorkers, who happen to cover most of the physics graduate students in the UC system) and proud of it.

You're proud of the fact that your union's short-sighted and selfish demands have severely crippled the ability of the domestic automotive industry to compete on a worldwide basis?

ZV

where does cheap foreign labor and materials equate into that statement?

the reason foreign labor is cheap is because they do not use the UAW. sadly the uaw is the one of the big reasons that US automotive industry is so screwed and can not compete.

of course so is the fact that they can't design a car that most people want.

The UAW is a small percentage of Union jobs. I think you and some others equate what you hear about UAW on the news with all Unions.

 

[Eeezee]

Originally posted by: TheoPetro
you all know my position on unions. They had their place there place is gone now. They hold back progress and are basically a haven for those that cannot produce. In the unions good workers are treated teh same as horrid workers. THere is no motivation to do better just a motivation to stay in the union longer to reach higher pay grades. Almost every company I know of (I know a lot of little ones) that is nonunion the employees are much happier than they were in the union. The ones that arnt happy are back at the union hall waiting for work because they cant perform and without the union they would be SOL.

Perhaps this is true, but unions still serve a purpose in some situations (like mine). Considering I'll only have this particular job for 5-6 years, it makes sense for the union to protect its temporary workers, who would otherwise be paid lower and lower wages as newer generations come in, obliviously happy with whatever they get no matter how unfair it becomes to an outside observer. I would not encourage that they be abolished, but it sounds like most places are better off without them.

 

[Fenixgoon]

Originally posted by: Eeezee

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

Originally posted by: Eeezee
I'm a member of a union (UAW - United AutoWorkers, who happen to cover most of the physics graduate students in the UC system) and proud of it.

You're proud of the fact that your union's short-sighted and selfish demands have severely crippled the ability of the domestic automotive industry to compete on a worldwide basis?

ZV

Our demands were selfish? Let's go over which part was selfish

reading comprehension ftw?

he said "your union's..." referring to the UAW, which has indeed screwed the US auto industry significantly.

he never said your demands were selfish, but those of the union.

 

[Eeezee]

Originally posted by: waggy

Originally posted by: bctbct

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

Originally posted by: Eeezee
I'm a member of a union (UAW - United AutoWorkers, who happen to cover most of the physics graduate students in the UC system) and proud of it.

You're proud of the fact that your union's short-sighted and selfish demands have severely crippled the ability of the domestic automotive industry to compete on a worldwide basis?

ZV

where does cheap foreign labor and materials equate into that statement?

the reason foreign labor is cheap is because they do not use the UAW. sadly the uaw is the one of the big reasons that US automotive industry is so screwed and can not compete.

of course so is the fact that they can't design a car that most people want.

That would be the primary reason. I have yet to see a good argument for how the UAW forces the US automotive industry to design shitty cars.

 

[darkswordsman17]

Originally posted by: Eeezee

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

Originally posted by: Eeezee
I'm a member of a union (UAW - United AutoWorkers, who happen to cover most of the physics graduate students in the UC system) and proud of it.

You're proud of the fact that your union's short-sighted and selfish demands have severely crippled the ability of the domestic automotive industry to compete on a worldwide basis?

ZV

Our demands were selfish? Let's go over which part was selfish

I make $22k/year. This is just enough for food+rent+utilities in Southern California. I live in a 2-bedroom apartment with a room mate, which is the cheapest possible rent in the area. I live a very meager life, and I'm fine with that; eventually I'll have my PhD, I can make more money later. For now, I accept making only $22k/year for doing my job (and a damn fine one at that). No, I don't have beer money.

The university wants to pay me $20.9k/year for the exact same job. I've worked out my budget, I can't afford to live in Southern California on that salary.

We are willing to accept this if we get some other form of compensation, perhaps health insurance, perhaps a dental plan, etc. I would love to have health insurance.

University is unwilling to negotiate (illegal by CA law), using stall tactics (also illegal)

We threaten a strike

University comes to table, the old contract is renewed (same salary) after we've argued that we can't possibly survive off of a 5% pay decrease.

Now, clearly you did not read the post at all, so I'll let that slide. But PLEASE GET A GOD DAMN CLUE.

Your situation is different than the major one he was discussing. I don't even know why you're a UAW member. You're a college student who's going for a Phd in physics but you're in the UAW? Not only that but how do you not qualify for financial aid?

Are you even aware of why people don't like the UAW? You seem ignorant of the situation (no I'm not calling you stupid but saying you don't seem to really understand what people are talking about).

 

[TheoPetro]

Originally posted by: Eeezee

Originally posted by: TheoPetro
you all know my position on unions. They had their place there place is gone now. They hold back progress and are basically a haven for those that cannot produce. In the unions good workers are treated teh same as horrid workers. THere is no motivation to do better just a motivation to stay in the union longer to reach higher pay grades. Almost every company I know of (I know a lot of little ones) that is nonunion the employees are much happier than they were in the union. The ones that arnt happy are back at the union hall waiting for work because they cant perform and without the union they would be SOL.

Perhaps this is true, but unions still serve a purpose in some situations (like mine). Considering I'll only have this particular job for 5-6 years, it makes sense for the union to protect its temporary workers, who would otherwise be paid lower and lower wages as newer generations come in, obliviously happy with whatever they get no matter how unfair it becomes to an outside observer. I would not encourage that they be abolished, but it sounds like most places are better off without them.

Ill agree that in specific situations they can be very benifficial. The thing is that some of them have become so powerful (Teachers union) and corrupt (Teachers union) that its hard to see different unions as separate entities.

 

[Eeezee]

Originally posted by: waggy
in some places the union is still needed. but the majority it seems are outdated. they have more damage to the employer and hurting the future of the workers. but the members do not see that.

NOT all unions are bad and they were needed in the past.

Agreed, it sounds like most unions today exist to serve themselves.

 

[TehMac]

I used to be a member of the UCFW union. Leeched maybe 33% a month of pay, plus taxes--or they would have, but I didn't pay, and thus got kicked out of union. If I hadn't quit, they would have had me terminated. Unions are an antiquated organization in today's world, and if the so called liberal progressionists were actually for progression, those out dated forms of leeching bull shit would have hit the road face first a while back.

 

[waggy]

Originally posted by: Eeezee

Originally posted by: waggy

Originally posted by: bctbct

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

Originally posted by: Eeezee
I'm a member of a union (UAW - United AutoWorkers, who happen to cover most of the physics graduate students in the UC system) and proud of it.

You're proud of the fact that your union's short-sighted and selfish demands have severely crippled the ability of the domestic automotive industry to compete on a worldwide basis?

ZV

where does cheap foreign labor and materials equate into that statement?

the reason foreign labor is cheap is because they do not use the UAW. sadly the uaw is the one of the big reasons that US automotive industry is so screwed and can not compete.

of course so is the fact that they can't design a car that most people want.

That would be the primary reason. I have yet to see a good argument for how the UAW forces the US automotive industry to design shitty cars.

hmm i think i have to agree with darkswordsman. you seem ignorant of the real situation.

yes they have made shitty cars and yes that is a huge part of the problem. BUT that could be overlooked if the car was cheaper. BUT they can't go cheaper due to the last 30 years of abuse by the UAW.

hell the UAW did its best to run cat out of business. but cat todl them to fuck off and outsourced everything (seems to be what hte big 3 are doing now).

the UAW's heavy handed tactics are now bitting them in the ass. to bad its to late and to little.

 

[waggy]

Originally posted by: TheoPetro

Originally posted by: Eeezee

Originally posted by: TheoPetro
you all know my position on unions. They had their place there place is gone now. They hold back progress and are basically a haven for those that cannot produce. In the unions good workers are treated teh same as horrid workers. THere is no motivation to do better just a motivation to stay in the union longer to reach higher pay grades. Almost every company I know of (I know a lot of little ones) that is nonunion the employees are much happier than they were in the union. The ones that arnt happy are back at the union hall waiting for work because they cant perform and without the union they would be SOL.

Perhaps this is true, but unions still serve a purpose in some situations (like mine). Considering I'll only have this particular job for 5-6 years, it makes sense for the union to protect its temporary workers, who would otherwise be paid lower and lower wages as newer generations come in, obliviously happy with whatever they get no matter how unfair it becomes to an outside observer. I would not encourage that they be abolished, but it sounds like most places are better off without them.

Ill agree that in specific situations they can be very benifficial. The thing is that some of them have become so powerful (Teachers union) and corrupt (Teachers union) that its hard to see different unions as separate entities.

oh man don't even get me started on the Teachers Union (wife was a member for a few years. she was even sick of the shit they pulled)

 

[TheoPetro]

Originally posted by: waggy

Originally posted by: TheoPetro

Originally posted by: Eeezee

Originally posted by: TheoPetro
you all know my position on unions. They had their place there place is gone now. They hold back progress and are basically a haven for those that cannot produce. In the unions good workers are treated teh same as horrid workers. THere is no motivation to do better just a motivation to stay in the union longer to reach higher pay grades. Almost every company I know of (I know a lot of little ones) that is nonunion the employees are much happier than they were in the union. The ones that arnt happy are back at the union hall waiting for work because they cant perform and without the union they would be SOL.

Perhaps this is true, but unions still serve a purpose in some situations (like mine). Considering I'll only have this particular job for 5-6 years, it makes sense for the union to protect its temporary workers, who would otherwise be paid lower and lower wages as newer generations come in, obliviously happy with whatever they get no matter how unfair it becomes to an outside observer. I would not encourage that they be abolished, but it sounds like most places are better off without them.

Ill agree that in specific situations they can be very benifficial. The thing is that some of them have become so powerful (Teachers union) and corrupt (Teachers union) that its hard to see different unions as separate entities.

oh man don't even get me started on the Teachers Union (wife was a member for a few years. she was even sick of the shit they pulled)

my favorite part is how hard they made it to fire child molesters. Sure cant wait to have children now. isgust;

 

[zinfamous]

Originally posted by: Jschmuck2

Originally posted by: Eeezee

Originally posted by: Jschmuck2
Wow. Just a quick note:

Writers /=/ Electricians.

Kthnks.

Is this a joke, or are you truly stupid?

No, it's not a joke toolbox. The product that the people in these unions produce combined with the fact that the product they ultimately influence are so different that to compare them is stupid.

Shouldn't you be in class?

:thumbsup:

assuming the issues that writers need to form a union over are the same issues that electricians need to unionize over is asinine beyond belief. OP doesn't seem to have a clue as to what the writers are striking over.

Thanks for the civics lesson though. I'd never heard of this "Un-ion" you mention

Different classes of workers have different issues that becomes common within their own community. Of course, several of these work communities have no union. I'm a research technician, and we have no union. the animal caretakers that we work with also have no union, and they tend to get screwed over on a regular basis. However, working for academia, we get benefits out the ass. matching 401k, excellent (and cheap) health-care options, travel stipends, etc... we tend to get screwed on OT on a regular basis, but we don't seem to care, either. I guess all it takes is enough people to bitch about these issues and then a union is formed, we've just never had a need, I guess
*shrug*

 

[waggy]

Originally posted by: TheoPetro

Originally posted by: waggy

Originally posted by: TheoPetro

Originally posted by: Eeezee

Originally posted by: TheoPetro
you all know my position on unions. They had their place there place is gone now. They hold back progress and are basically a haven for those that cannot produce. In the unions good workers are treated teh same as horrid workers. THere is no motivation to do better just a motivation to stay in the union longer to reach higher pay grades. Almost every company I know of (I know a lot of little ones) that is nonunion the employees are much happier than they were in the union. The ones that arnt happy are back at the union hall waiting for work because they cant perform and without the union they would be SOL.

Perhaps this is true, but unions still serve a purpose in some situations (like mine). Considering I'll only have this particular job for 5-6 years, it makes sense for the union to protect its temporary workers, who would otherwise be paid lower and lower wages as newer generations come in, obliviously happy with whatever they get no matter how unfair it becomes to an outside observer. I would not encourage that they be abolished, but it sounds like most places are better off without them.

Ill agree that in specific situations they can be very benifficial. The thing is that some of them have become so powerful (Teachers union) and corrupt (Teachers union) that its hard to see different unions as separate entities.

oh man don't even get me started on the Teachers Union (wife was a member for a few years. she was even sick of the shit they pulled)

my favorite part is how hard they made it to fire child molesters. Sure cant wait to have children now. isgust;

hahah yeah. that is the main thing. they wanted all teachers to write in defending a child mollester and that he should be allowed to have his job back. WTF! my wife said she was not going to do it. They were saying this was to save her job. she was like why? i'm never going to mollest a kid!

heh.

 

[Eeezee]

Originally posted by: darkswordsman17
Your situation is different than the major one he was discussing. I don't even know why you're a UAW member. You're a college student who's going for a Phd in physics but you're in the UAW? Not only that but how do you not qualify for financial aid?

Are you even aware of why people don't like the UAW? You seem ignorant of the situation (no I'm not calling you stupid but saying you don't seem to really understand what people are talking about).

The UAW started taking academic workers in the 80s, although other unions also take on ASEs (Academic Student Employees).

Graduate student financial aid works differently from undergraduate financial aid. You still fill out the same old stuff, but now you are guaranteed to be a dependent. Unfortunately, now you also don't qualify for most of the free money. Every loan program is still open (including interest subsidized loans, which is nice but those still must ultimately be paid back).

My institution gave me a one-time fellowship bonus of $5k for coming here as a grad student, but that's the full extent of "financial aid" available to me; you get some cash up front for your first year (which I already factored into the $22k figure; next year I've been promised that I'll receive another bonus of the same amount) and you qualify for every loan in existence, but your only source of income is for whatever work you do.

I'm actually not that aware of why people dislike the UAW; striking for any length of time has huge economic ramifications, and not just for the employees/company striking but across many fields. Ultimately, I feel the 2007 strike was justified; GM was failing to negotiate. You can argue that having to pay American workers more makes cheaper overseas work more appealing, but that also seems unfair (even if I have no solution to this problem).

 

[Injury]

Unions are a joke because the majority of them favor seniority over quality of work/ability/skill when giving promotions and raises.

It's my OPINION (read: Like it or not, this is how I feel and I'm sticking to it.) that if you don't like the quality or benefits of a working situation then you find a new job instead of trying to extort a company to throw its business model out the window and make sacrifices in other areas to compensate for a lack of benefits or pay. This is America... nobody says you HAVE to work a certain job. If you don't like it, move along.

In general, though, there is a fair difference between the unions of skilled/educated laborers and "any schmoe off the street could do this" jobs.

 

[Toastedlightly]

Unless replacement employees can be hired no matter what, then unions should be outlawed.

 

[aplefka]

How can you disagree with the writer's strike? It's been 20 years since the last contract. You can't tell me things haven't changed enough in mass media in the past 20 years that they don't deserve to get some new things hammered out.

 

[zinfamous]

Originally posted by: Eeezee

Originally posted by: waggy
in some places the union is still needed. but the majority it seems are outdated. they have more damage to the employer and hurting the future of the workers. but the members do not see that.

NOT all unions are bad and they were needed in the past.

Agreed, it sounds like most unions today exist to serve themselves.

:thumbsup:

anyone ever see "On the Waterfront?" A classic. Brando...hello....anyone?

 

[waggy]

Originally posted by: aplefka
How can you disagree with the writer's strike? It's been 20 years since the last contract. You can't tell me things haven't changed enough in mass media in the past 20 years that they don't deserve to get some new things hammered out.

i don't think anyone disagrees they should be paid. i think the problem is how they went about it.

 

[Malfeas]

.

 

[JEDI]

Originally posted by: bctbct

Originally posted by: TheSiege

Originally posted by: bctbct
slow down Cub, now go find me a conduit stretcher.

yeah i fell for that one.

we torment apprentices, the best part of turning out is continuing that tradition

lol.. like hazing in a frat.

what else do u guys do to the poor 1st years?

 

[meltdown75]

OPSEU represent!

WOT WOT

 

[TheSiege]

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt
1) US Law today covers this. There is no value-add from a union here.

2) So basically, you're admitting that unions are a form of extortion because they make it difficult to complete large projects without the help of the union.

3) Except that in Toledo, OH, where I grew up, the non-union shops produced higher-quality results and paid their workers more than union shops because the company didn't have the union protecting incompetent workers.

4) My experience being in a union (UFCW) and talking with several friends who work in the HVAC industry (I do not know what union covers HVAC) has been the opposite. We all agree that the non-union jobs we've had were greatly superior to the union jobs. Non-union jobs mean that you advance according to talent, hard work, and ability, and do not have inept co-workers who can't be fired. Union jobs mean that even if you're the best person there, some moron who has no value but has been there 10 years longer will be paid more because of "seniority".

Unions today are a drain on society. I will never belong to a union again, and I will never hire any company that uses union workers. Unions had their place before the US legal system caught up with industrialization, but they have become nothing more than an expensive redundancy.

ZV

this is the most ignorant thing I have ever read. non union contractors simply don't have the man power. they just cant staff enough people do such large work.

union contractors can make a call into the hall to get more workers. people who are being mistreated, (forced to work further from home then needed. being abused by superiors, and so on) can drag up and take the call and go somewhere more desirable.

 

[JEDI]

Originally posted by: Malfeas
IBEW local 72 here. Power dispatcher and once a wirebiter.

I don't think it is exactly fair to compare the IBEW to other unions. The difference in form and function is quite significant. From my experience, the IBEW exists to maintain a minimum level of training and competence among its members,and to guarentee an adequate form of compesation. I am also not aware of any IBEW union 'shops', the only electrical worker shops I know of are those electricians that work for shipyards, however they are not part of the IBEW(at least the ones I'm familiar with), and to be honest I found those shop electricians work ethic to be somewhat......lacking.

Anyway, I've worked with other shop Unions, like pipefitters, carpenters and steelworkers. And although there is always the exception, I found most of them also lacking in work ethic and with an overdeveloped sense of entitlement.

pipefitters union in DC area want a 3yr contract with $5/hr raise PER YEAR! and they are close to striking, i heard,

$30k raise in 3yrs. WTF is that?!