Unemployed in FL may have to volunteer to get benefit checks

[SacrosanctFiend]

That makes no sense. Employers pay into a state/federal fund. No where do the employees pay a tax or fee or deduction that goes into this fund. Show me your proof & I will concede. But as a manager I know what I am saying based on many, many, training meetings & discussions on how to terminate employees.
Unemployment benefits are paid out based on length of employment. There is actually a hearing with the employer & the unemployment agency that determines whether or not an employee will receive benefits. (I have had to provide information on this many, many times)
Employees are never ,ever held financially responsible for paying into the unemployment tax.

Mostly correct. Different states deal with UI differently, but it never comes from the employee. To claim that it comes from money that would have gone to the employee is ridiculous. If we get a lower experience rating from the state, that money saved doesn't go to the employee.

However, there is only a hearing with the employer, Tribunal, and employee in which the Tribunal makes the determination on whether the employee gets UI or not IF there is an appeal of the initial decision, either by the employee or employer.

In TN, we submit a Separation Notice which the employee takes to the state. The state then sends the employer a 6 question for to complete to detail the reason for termination. From that, the initial determination is made.

 

[Chocu1a]

Employees are worth $x. Whenever something takes money out of $x, that reduces the hourly rate you get paid. Nobody gets health insurance through their employers. Your pay gets reduced to pay for it. Likewise with unemployment insurance. You don't get that "free". Your pay is reduced to cover it.

My employer pays my health insurance. Health insurance is also OPTIONAL. Employers paying out unemployment is not if the employee is deemed eligible.
I get paid $x as my agreed salary. Nowhere does it state my pay is being reduced by $x to compensate the amount the employer pays into unemployment. I get paid the agreed upon amount I was hired at.
Listen. Most employers don't like paying unemployment benefits. It costs THEM money. I get reminded of this daily at my job. "make sure you have written documentation when terminating someone", "Have all your paperwork in proper order in case someone files an unemployment claim", because the employer does not like paying out the unemployment fees.

 

[lxskllr]

My employer pays my health insurance. I get paid $x as my agreed salary. Nowhere does it state my pay is being reduced by $x to compensate the amount the employer pays into unemployment. I get paid what the agreed upon amount I was hired at.
Listen. Most employers don't like paying unemployment benefits. It costs THEM money. I get reminded of this daily at my job. "make sure you have written documentation when terminating someone", "Have all your paperwork in proper order in case someone files an unemployment claim", because the employer does not like paying out the unemployment fees.

That's the kind of creative accounting that's fucked over this country. Your employer DOES NOT pay your health insurance. YOU pay it through reductions in your pay. Just because the process has been camouflaged, that doesn't mean it hasn't happened. It's same with unemployment insurance. Just because their isn't a line item on your stub, that doesn't mean you haven't paid it.

 

[Chocu1a]

Uh, so I guess you should have to work for your Social Security because the employer pays a portion? Or, your employer should get your tax refund since they "paid" your taxes?
Uh, no.

Now you are getting ridiculous. You are making things up & grasping at straws. They are completely different situations & scenarios.
THE EMPLOYEE DOES NOT PAY ANYTHING TOWARDS UNEMPLOYMENT!!!!!
What part of this don't you understand?
Should a laid of employee get unemployment benefits? Sure. But not indefinitely!
I unfortunately have several family members in other states that are milking this system. One actually in Florida. She makes me sick. It is her opinion she has earned the right to not work & draw a check for over 2 years now! WTF! She has filed & received extensions for 2 years!
You are arguing for the sake of arguing.

 

[Chocu1a]

That's the kind of creative accounting that's fucked over this country. Your employer DOES NOT pay your health insurance. YOU pay it through reductions in your pay. Just because the process has been camouflaged, that doesn't mean it hasn't happened. It's same with unemployment insurance. Just because their isn't a line item on your stub, that doesn't mean you haven't paid it.

No you are completely mistaken. I was hired in at $x. I then negotiated that they will pay my part of health insurance for myself & wife. It is called a benefits package. Yes it adds to the total of my salary, but it in no way reduced the agreed upon amount I received upon hire.
If there is no deduction line, then I in fact did not pay it. No money has been removed from my salary.

 

[lxskllr]

Now you are getting ridiculous. You are making things up & grasping at straws. They are completely different situations & scenarios.
THE EMPLOYEE DOES NOT PAY ANYTHING TOWARDS UNEMPLOYMENT!!!!!
What part of this don't you understand?

What part of basic economics don't you understand? I have $10 per week to feed my cat, but I don't have time to do it, so I pay you. Cat food is $3, so that leaves $7 to pay you. Gas to get the food is $2, that leaves $5 to pay you. If I have to pay $2 for your health insurance, that leaves $3, and if I have to pay $1 to unemployment, that leaves your pay at $2.

You can make up all the bullshit numbers you want, but that's how it works. Just because it isn't spelled out in bold font on your pay stub, it doesn't mean it isn't there :^S

 

[Chocu1a]

What part of basic economics don't you understand? I have $10 per week to feed my cat, but I don't have time to do it, so I pay you. Cat food is $3, so that leaves $7 to pay you. Gas to get the food is $2, that leaves $5 to pay you. If I have to pay $2 for your health insurance, that leaves $3, and if I have to pay $1 to unemployment, that leaves your pay at $2.

You can make up all the bullshit numbers you want, but that's how it works. Just because it isn't spelled out in bold font on your pay stub, it doesn't mean it isn't there :^S

I completely understand economics. We are not discussing that. If you are offered a job at $12 per hour, that is your base pay. You are than offered optional deductions. YOU choose to opt for these deductions.
If you think you are actually paying your own unemployment insurance. You should have asked for more money. I get what I agreed upon.
Your first example deals with real tangible deductions. Not imaginary amounts that are hidden in imaginary deductions.

 

[lxskllr]

I completely understand economics. We are not discussing that. If you are offered a job at $12 per hour, that is your base pay. You are than offered optional deductions. YOU choose to opt for these deductions.
If you think you are actually paying your own unemployment insurance. You should have asked for more money. I get what I agreed upon.
Your first example deals with real tangible deductions. Not imaginary amounts that are hidden in imaginary deductions.

I guess when a car comes with power windows standard, you're getting that free since it's the way it comes, and you agreed to it, right?

 

[Chocu1a]

I guess when a car comes with power windows standard, you're getting that free since it's the way it comes, and you agreed to it, right?

If I cannot opt for the removal of the power windows to reduce MY cost of the car, then yes, it is not costing me any extra. It costs what it costs. It is the way the car comes. It is not an OPTION.
I understand what you are trying to say. It is just not reality.
When I bought my new car last year, I got a base model. No additional options. It cost what it cost. Sure, the power windows cost the car manufacturer money, & it was included in THEIR price, but seeing as it is not removable, it has now become standard & part of the build.
It is not in my control, therefore it is not costing me any extra.

If I told my employer I would never ever draw unemployment benefits, would my pay then magically increase? No.
So, if told my employer tomorrow I didn't need their insurance, would my pay increase? No.

 

[boomerang]

Questions for the it's your money crowd.

How much are you paying for unemployment insurance? I'm asking for a dollar figure.

How long will that cover you if you are unemployed?

Does this money go into an account designated for you that you draw from?

Does it transfer from employer to employer just as you would going job to job?

Does it transfer with you if you move to another state?

When the money is exhausted, what happens then? If your state has paid out until the funds have run out, what happens then?

It's insurance after all, and you've stated this. The money is pooled to cover those that are unemployed. Do you see a possibility of these funds running out in extended periods of high unemployment such as we're experiencing?

If you've exhausted the money you've paid in, what should be your fate?

Edit: No answers that are essentially what you "feel" or what you feel is right. Real answers please.

 

[lxskllr]

Questions for the it's your money crowd.

How much are you paying for unemployment insurance? I'm asking for a dollar figure.

Don't know. That varies by employer. Higher risk layoff jobs have higher rates.

How long will that cover you if you are unemployed?

Varies by state

Does this money go into an account designated for you that you draw from?

Not a specific bank account, but you get out what was paid in until benefits are exhausted.

Does it transfer from employer to employer just as you would going job to job?

yes

Does it transfer with you if you move to another state?

You'd have to file in the state where money was paid, or possibly both states.

When the money is exhausted, what happens then? If your state has paid out until the funds have run out, what happens then?

You're SOL

It's insurance after all, and you've stated this. The money is pooled to cover those that are unemployed. Do you see a possibility of these funds running out in extended periods of high unemployment such as we're experiencing?

Funds ran out long ago. That's why the feds are involved.

If you've exhausted the money you've paid in, what should be your fate?

Don't know

 

[lothar]

Good idea.
They can look for work on weekdays and do volunteer work on weekends.

Hopefully they would find a way to reasonably enforce it, but I can't think of any way to do so at the moment.

 

[PeshakJang]

Wrong, you insufferable twit.

Hey, kiddo, why don't you try thinking before you make an ass out of yourself?

From the FL employer handbook on UE insurance:

http://dor.myflorida.com/dor/taxes/unemploy_comp_law.html#who

Who Pays for It?

You, the employer, pay for unemployment compensation through a tax managed by the Florida Department of Revenue. It is one of your business costs. Workers do not pay unemployment tax and employers must not make payroll deductions for this purpose. The consumer bears this cost in the price of the goods or services you sell. Thus, the burden of unemployment is shared by all. Your payments go into a fund from which monies are paid to eligible claimants. After a qualifying period, employers with a stable employment history will receive a lowered tax rate.

Also, for those still saying that the employee paid the money and should get it back...

The minimum and maximum tax rates effective January 1, 2011 are as follows (based on annual salary up to $7,000 per employee):

• Minimum rate: 0.0103 or $72.10 per employee
• Maximum rate: 0.0540 or $378 per employee

So after you get back all $378 paid in per year, then get your ass to work for the rest.

 

[PeshakJang]

"Doing community service keeps you from looking for a job," Laurence Lukasik, who is unemployed, said.

If anything, it gets you out of the house and into the community where you can find work. A well designed system would increase your chances of finding work.

"Sometimes I don't have a babysitter and if I have to worry about losing my unemployment because I have to go to community service, what am I gonna do? Either lose my unemployment or have nowhere for my kid to go?" Shane Stewart, who is also unemployed, said.

Makes no fucking sense. What's gonna happen when he gets a job? Same situation. I guess he can't get a job either then, and needs to be paid to do nothing for the rest of his life. Idiot.

 

[Scotteq]

In My Humble Opinion:

(1) Initial benefits should be without question.

(2) After a certain timeframe (60 days? 90 days?) you should have to show you're actively looking for work. Participation in the state's headhunting service. Form from a private employment agency/headhunter. Note & Business Card from an interview you participated in. Something.

(3) After a much longer timeframe? I agree with the sentiment there could/should be some exchange for the money. Even if such extended benefits were voluntary. Registering your availability for (a couple days a week?) community service is a pretty simple act, and hardly "slavery".

 

[nageov3t]

I've got no problem with that... it annoys the hell out of me that my cousin moved to Finland for a woodworking apprenticeship last year and has been collecting unemployment from the US the entire time.

 

[PeshakJang]

From the employee handbook on UI insurance in FL:

The Unemployment Compensation Program is not:
• Social Security;
• An automatic entitlement;
• A loan;
• Based on need;
• Intended to fully replace your previous income; or
• Funded by any deductions from wages you have earned.

Also, it seems as if you are already required to provide proof-of-search:

To be eligible for benefits you must:

• Make a thorough and continued effort to obtain work, and take positive actions to become
re-employed.
• Keep a written record of your work search, including the date and method of each employer
contact, the result, and the employer’s name and address.

Also:

Some of the reasons a person may be denied benefits are as follows:
• Quitting either part-time or full-time work for personal reasons. Benefit payments can only be
paid if you quit for good cause attributable to your employer, or for a personal illness or disability
that made it necessary for you to leave the job.
• Being discharged for misconduct connected with work. Misconduct is an intentional or
controllable act or failure to take action, which shows a deliberate disregard of the employer’s
interests. Misconduct may include breaking a known company policy.
• Not being able to work or available for work. You must be able, ready and willing to accept a
suitable job immediately. You must also be able to get to work and have adequate child care in
order to be able to work.
• Refusing an offer of suitable work.
• Being on a leave of absence you requested.
• Knowingly making false statements to obtain benefit payments.

So looks like that idiot quoted in the article should be denied his benefits, since he is obviously unable to accept a job immediately.

 

[Chocu1a]

Good idea.
They can look for work on weekdays and do volunteer work on weekends.

Hopefully they would find a way to reasonably enforce it, but I can't think of any way to do so at the moment.

Well, they would have to provide proof of said volunteer work. A signed slip from the place you volunteered. Don't some minor criminals have to do community service as penance? How is that time recorded?

 

[piasabird]

Most people like working and it gives the person something to keep them busy. However, many states have people with mental disabilities doing a lot of busy work already. Still there are a lot of things mentally deficient people just cant do because they are dangerous jobs.

All you have to do is round up all the illegal workers and replace them with out of work people. Then if they dont show up, you just cut all their state and federal aid off for a few months and see if they like that better. Nothing like an incentive. Let them either work or starve. Maybe they will find a job if you cut off their money. Let them go hunt alligators. Or give them $100.00 for every illegal they turn in. The Illegals will leave the state and you will have more jobs.

 

[PeshakJang]

Well, they would have to provide proof of said volunteer work. A signed slip from the place you volunteered. Don't some minor criminals have to do community service as penance? How is that time recorded?

Assign somebody a place to work X hours a week, to be supervised by a competent public employee. Humane society, public works, library, etc. Workplace keeps a record of who works when, and reports to UI agency.

 

[Scotteq]

Well, they would have to provide proof of said volunteer work. A signed slip from the place you volunteered. Don't some minor criminals have to do community service as penance? How is that time recorded?

My understanding for the Court ordered community service is you have to register/report with the clerk of the courts in that jurisdiction, who then coordinates whatever service is required of you.

 

[piasabird]

Send all the Cubans back to Cuba. Why is it that people from Cuba get a free ride?

 

[PeshakJang]

BTW, I am more in favor of a sliding scale of free benefits to loans. For the first X weeks, you receive benefits without any catch. After a reasonable amount of time, you receive the same amount, but 25% of it is an interest free loan. After another reasonable amount of time, 50% is a loan. After that, you are cut off. Once you are working again, your wages or taxes are garnished by a reasonable amount until you are paid off.

 

[highland145]

Hey, kiddo, why don't you try thinking before you make an ass out of yourself?

From the FL employer handbook on UE insurance:

http://dor.myflorida.com/dor/taxes/unemploy_comp_law.html#who



Also, for those still saying that the employee paid the money and should get it back...



So after you get back all $378 paid in per year, then get your ass to work for the rest.

If anything, it gets you out of the house and into the community where you can find work. A well designed system would increase your chances of finding work.



Makes no fucking sense. What's gonna happen when he gets a job? Same situation. I guess he can't get a job either then, and needs to be paid to do nothing for the rest of his life. Idiot.

this.

lxskllr

Not a specific bank account, but you get out what was paid in until benefits are exhausted.

Assume you mean when the system is exhausted. The amount an employer pays in is minuscule per employee. I paid in less than $400 last year for me and a part timer.

 

[PeshakJang]

this.

lxskllr

Assume you mean when the system is exhausted. The amount an employer pays in is minuscule per employee. I paid in less than $400 last year for me and a part timer.

Math doesn't matter in LibLand. If $X goes in, $Y comes out... because they said so.

If only we could create a real system in which $400 goes in and $100,000 comes out...