There's little doubt there was some sort of verbal confrontation, witnesses call it an argument but that doesn't mean it was an argument.
Given that Zimmerman thought he was dealing with a criminal, why wouldn't he have his gun drawn, or draw it at that time ?
What if when Martin was confronted with being shot, his reaction was to attack Zimmerman quickly then hold him on the ground ? Then call for help ?
Isn't this scenario consistent with the facts as well as Zimmerman's actions and attitudes expressed on the recorded call ?
No one, not one person saw the gun drawn. The prosecutor will not be able to float that theory.
Objection: assumes facts not in evidence.
Nor was there the tiniest bit of evidence he even breathed on the gun during a several minute long scuffle...there's ZERO chance the gun was drawn before it was fired in self defense by a man on his back being beatenNor did TM let John know that GZ had a gun when he had the chance either.
Nor was there the tiniest bit of evidence he even breathed on the gun during a several minute long scuffle...there's ZERO chance the gun was drawn before it was fired in self defense by a man on his back being beaten
Then you're short on common sense, if it had been out during a prolonged struggle there would have been evidence of TM touching it, which there isn't, or it would have been fired much earlier, which didn't happen. There's just no way it was exposed for several minutes without being fired or have any evidence of TM touching itCommon sense tells you the gun was out before he was on his back. He carried the gun on the small of his back. Literally impossible for TM to know he had a gun in that position for there to be a struggle as GZ alleges without GZ either brandishing it, or telling him he had a gun.
Common sense tells you the gun was out before he was on his back. He carried the gun on the small of his back. Literally impossible for TM to know he had a gun in that position for there to be a struggle as GZ alleges without GZ either brandishing it, or telling him he had a gun.
Then you're short on common sense, if it had been out during a prolonged struggle there would have been evidence of TM touching it, which there isn't, or it would have been fired much earlier, which didn't happen. There's just no way it was exposed for several minutes without being fired or have any evidence of TM touching it
Then you're short on common sense, if it had been out during a prolonged struggle there would have been evidence of TM touching it, which there isn't, or it would have been fired much earlier, which didn't happen. There's just no way it was exposed for several minutes without being fired or have any evidence of TM touching it
There is also no way that he could have drawn it while he was on his back, when the gun was on his back. There were two bodyweights on that gun.
I'd like for them to admit into evidence him laying on his back and drawing his gun. Doesn't even need to have anybody on him. Kind of like trying on the glove. Just so the jury can see how full of shit he is.
It's not nearly as hard as you're making it out to be...and T wasn't lying on top of him he was standing over him.There is also no way that he could have drawn it while he was on his back, when the gun was on his back. There were two bodyweights on that gun.
I'd like for them to admit into evidence him laying on his back and drawing his gun. Doesn't even need to have anybody on him. Kind of like trying on the glove. Just so the jury can see how full of shit he is.
Seems to me I remember it being close to two minutes long...from the times given by various witnesses hearing the beginning to the gun shot. And the tests showed no fingerprints or DNA from TM on the gun, how would that not be conclusiveFirst, the altercation didn't last very long, certainly, not several minutes. Second, there's no conclusive evidence that TM did or didn't touch the gun. DNA test proves that, IIRC.
In all fairness highly doubt Z-man was big on training, not that drawing while on your back is all that hard to begin withI'm on my back, I turn my shoulders to my left, weapon is exposed, I grab it.
You train for all these things so you don't have to think about drawing, it sorta comes naturally like pulling out your wallet. You're not making any logical sense with the direction you're headed, it's just dumb to even think that.
It's possible I missed that since my school schedule has kept me really busy the last couple months but he doesn't strike me as the kind of person who would...I thought I read he shot and trained regularly.
I personally think that TM was provoked, most likely by GZ reaching for a weapon to try and keep TM in place for the cops to come. None of the evidence supports that, and if I was on a jury I wouldn't be able to come to that conclusion.
So, if DeeDee heard Zimmerman catch up w\ Trayvon as her statement indicates, it means zimmerman is full of shit.
Or she did NOT hear that, and DeeDee is full of shit.
Those people keep ignoring the fact that the prosecution will have to establish she could hear what she claimed. So far, if it's been established it hasn't been released.
No way spidey!
We both know Zimmerman stood there in the dark and rain and said to himself "cops will be here in a few minutes? fuck that. It's on. I'm going to find this kid, and pop a cap in his ass. More than enough time before cops arrive for me to needlessly murder a black kid! muhahahaha!"
Then his 5'9" pudgy self ran like the wind, caught up to Trayvon who, miraculously wasn't inside and long gone by then... and attempted to wrestle the 6'3" black guy in a dark hoodie at night, one on one, to the ground.
Exactly the sort of behavior you'd expect.
Honestly let's be real here for a second.
What percentage of non-black people in the US would ever, in their wildest dreams, absent an enormous death wish, attempt to "detain" or directly confront, one on one, a 6 foot + black male who they believed tp be a suspicious criminal at night in the dark?
The very idea is idiocy itself.
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No way spidey!
We both know Zimmerman stood there in the dark and rain and said to himself "cops will be here in a few minutes? fuck that. It's on. I'm going to find this kid, and pop a cap in his ass. More than enough time before cops arrive for me to needlessly murder a black kid! muhahahaha!"
Then his 5'9" pudgy self ran like the wind, caught up to Trayvon who, miraculously wasn't inside and long gone by then... and attempted to wrestle the 6'3" black guy in a dark hoodie at night, one on one, to the ground.
Exactly the sort of behavior you'd expect.
Honestly let's be real here for a second.
What percentage of non-black people in the US would ever, in their wildest dreams, absent an enormous death wish, attempt to "detain" or directly confront, one on one, a 6 foot + black male who they believed tp be a suspicious criminal at night in the dark?
The very idea is idiocy itself.
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easy. GZ had a gun. it gave him a false sense of bravado. without the gun he would have just watched and called the police. with is what he usually do.
so instead he chose to get out of the vehicle and fallow.
without the gun this wouldnt' have ended the way it did. with proper training this wouldn't have ended the way it did.
No one, not one person saw the gun drawn. The prosecutor will not be able to float that theory.
Objection: assumes facts not in evidence.
He shot him without drawing his gun ?
The prosecution doesn't have to float anything. They can rely on the common sense of the judge or jury.
Common sense when following or pursuing a person you think is a criminal is to leave your gun holstered ?
He obviously drew it sometime, there's no reason to think he drew it when HE says he did, what HE says about it is pretty much irrelevant. Unless the judge or jury decide he's a reliable person as to telling the truth.
Your point about not seeing the gun drawn..nobody saw anything that happened prior to Zimmerman being on the ground..if they saw that. Those witnesses didn't see the shooting, yet we know he was shot.
How could that be ?
He shot him without drawing his gun ?
The prosecution doesn't have to float anything. They can rely on the common sense of the judge or jury.
Common sense when following or pursuing a person you think is a criminal is to leave your gun holstered ?
He obviously drew it sometime, there's no reason to think he drew it when HE says he did, what HE says about it is pretty much irrelevant. Unless the judge or jury decide he's a reliable person as to telling the truth.
Your point about not seeing the gun drawn..nobody saw anything that happened prior to Zimmerman being on the ground..if they saw that. Those witnesses didn't see the shooting, yet we know he was shot.
How could that be ?