Unarmed black 17 year old shot by Neighborhood watch captain in gated community...

[spidey07]

If martin is on top then self defense is automatically justified according to law and all the evidence.

Multiple head wounds
Broken nose
Eye witness reports
Forensics proving shot while on top of zimmerman

All evidence PROVES self defense. What evidence do we have that zimmerman committed a crime that night? I keep asking, nobody has provided one single shred.

 

[Geosurface]

If anyone wants to hear GZ's brother's interview on the radio in LA here it is: http://downloads.iheartradio.com/media/station_content/616/carroll12092612P_1348697802_1705.mp3

And here are some video interviews he gave:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Zx3BFrOhpA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1uMhDnlhkL8

Also may I point out how silly it was to say "Well John dialed back his certainty a little bit on the MMA blows so that means there's now no reason to think Trayvon was hitting GZ!!!!"

um, pardon me but where did the injuries come from then?

the most reasonable assumption is that John (witness 6) did see Trayvon raining down blows, that's how the injuries came about, just like GZ says... and that the dialing back of certainty later was primarily due to the pictures of lil' Trayvon at age 12 all over the news, and the consensus in the country that it was a racist execution... as well as just simply John trying to be a responsible witness. With what has come out since, he might regret dialing back his certainty. Or maybe not. I personally think he had the most untainted, reliable testimony the night of.

 

[WHAMPOM]

If anyone wants to hear GZ's brother's interview on the radio in LA here it is: http://downloads.iheartradio.com/media/station_content/616/carroll12092612P_1348697802_1705.mp3

And here are some video interviews he gave:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Zx3BFrOhpA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1uMhDnlhkL8

Also may I point out how silly it was to say "Well John dialed back his certainty a little bit on the MMA blows so that means there's now no reason to think Trayvon was hitting GZ!!!!"

um, pardon me but where did the injuries come from then?

the most reasonable assumption is that John (witness 6) did see Trayvon raining down blows, that's how the injuries came about, just like GZ says... and that the dialing back of certainty later was primarily due to the pictures of lil' Trayvon at age 12 all over the news, and the consensus in the country that it was a racist execution... as well as just simply John trying to be a responsible witness. With what has come out since, he might regret dialing back his certainty. Or maybe not. I personally think he had the most untainted, reliable testimony the night of.

YA. YA. We get it, no amount of facts will change your rationalization.

 

[TerryMathews]

YA. YA. We get it, no amount of facts will change your rationalization.

Or yours, evidently.

 

[WHAMPOM]

Just a more likely chain of events that fit Zimmerman's profile. Over zealous cop-wanna-be with anger management problems and bad impulse control.

 

[spidey07]

Just a more likely chain of events that fit Zimmerman's profile. Over zealous cop-wanna-be with anger management problems and bad impulse control.

What evidence is there that shows it wasn't self defense.

Just provide a single shred. Something.

 

[TerryMathews]

Just a more likely chain of events that fit Zimmerman's profile. Over zealous cop-wanna-be with anger management problems and bad impulse control.

"More likely" won't convict. Any doubt benefits the defense. "Beyond any reasonable doubt."

 

[Londo_Jowo]

Just a more likely chain of events that fit Zimmerman's profile. Over zealous cop-wanna-be with anger management problems and bad impulse control.

Yet no evidence that backs up your "chain of events". The evidence shows that this more likely a case of a teen that found out he wasn't 10 foot tall and bullet proof.

 

[SpatiallyAware]

Yet no evidence that backs up your "chain of events". The evidence shows that this more likely a case of a teen that found out he wasn't 10 foot tall and bullet proof.

But he KNOWS deep down in his soft little heart that zimmerman rage murdered the little thug. And, by all accounts zimmerman should get the chair simply because of that.




The more this thread goes on, the more I am coming to the conclusion that the people who are still supporting that trayvon 100% did nothing wrong are simply little kids.

 

[Londo_Jowo]

I wonder when or if we'll have access to these depositions

George Zimmerman's lawyers begin depositions, interview FDLE analysts

George Zimmerman's defense attorneys have begun the process of deposing prosecution witnesses in the second-degree murder case he faces in the February shooting death of 17-year-old Trayvon Martin.

In a court notice filed in Seminole County on Thursday, Zimmerman attorney Mark O'Mara indicated that he had conducted depositions with several members of the Florida Department of Law Enforcement the previous day.

That includes an FDLE crime lab analyst who tested evidence in the case for DNA, including Zimmerman's gun, his flashlight, his holster and his and Trayvon's clothing.

 

[spidey07]

Is the defense deposition even have to release any of that? That would be privileged information IMHO.

 

[Londo_Jowo]

I do believe that the defense's discovery is subject to the same sunshine law that has allowed the public to view the prosecution's evidence. Also all the defense's discovery must be shared with the prosecution.

 

[WHAMPOM]

Yet no evidence that backs up your "chain of events". The evidence shows that this more likely a case of a teen that found out he wasn't 10 foot tall and bullet proof.

You mean your conjecture. Most people would have to stand on their head, close one eye, squint the other at a page written in Sanskrit at night from forty feet away, illuminated by a candle during a windstorm to get your take on the evidence.

 

[WHAMPOM]

But he KNOWS deep down in his soft little heart that zimmerman rage murdered the little thug. And, by all accounts zimmerman should get the chair simply because of that.




The more this thread goes on, the more I am coming to the conclusion that the people who are still supporting that trayvon 100% did nothing wrong are simply little kids.

With little evidence we know either way right now let's go with state of mind, Black teen talking to girl on the cell VRS. armed pumped up cop-wannabe on the hunt. What is this A-hole still following me for VRS. got the effing punk in arms reach now, he aint gunna get away from me again!

 

[spidey07]

With little evidence we know either way right now let's go with state of mind, Black teen talking to girl on the cell VRS. armed pumped up cop-wannabe on the hunt. What is this A-hole still following me for VRS. got the effing punk in arms reach now, he aint gunna get away from me again!

Even IF that's what happened, it is still a clear cut case of self defense as martin was on top beating zimmerman about the head, straddling him preventing him from disengaging in his brutal beating.

That's what makes it such a clear and obvious case of self defense. That's why he wasn't originally charged.

 

[Geosurface]

Yea I'm sure little 5'8" Zimmerman on his way to Target went from quavering little bitch begging the operator "Just get an officer out here!" when Trayvon approached his car and acted like he had something in his waistband, and the guy who on a previous call to police very shortly before this said "I don't want to approach him, personally" regarding another suspect, to suddenly... Rambo man who thinks his 5'8" ass is going to physically detain a 6'3" black guy he's afraid of.

Face it, the only reason he got out of that car is that he thought Trayvon was long gone or at the very least, was never going to stop running. Maybe that was naive and stupid of him, maybe not. But the idea that he intended to, or tried to physically detain Trayvon is laughable. It's an idea that could only spawn back when the 12 year old pictures were all anyone had seen, and only stubbornness keeps it alive now.

 

[waggy]

Just a more likely chain of events that fit Zimmerman's profile. Over zealous cop-wanna-be with anger management problems and bad impulse control.

exactly. throw in the fact z had a gun and that gave him a false sense of bravado. I really doubt Z would have chased TM if he didn't have a gun.

its a fucked up situation compounded by Z's bad decision making.

I don't keep 100% on this thread but doubt anything new has been released that show Z's guilt by law (now by opinion i feel he should be found guilty..of something) of Murder 2.


and why are you guys arguing with airdata about how court works? shit he proved his ignorance on that 100 pages ago.

 

[Londo_Jowo]

You mean your conjecture. Most people would have to stand on their head, close one eye, squint the other at a page written in Sanskrit at night from forty feet away, illuminated by a candle during a windstorm to get your take on the evidence.

Are you sure that's not what most people would need to do to accept your "chain of events"?

 

[OCNewbie]

exactly. throw in the fact z had a gun and that gave him a false sense of bravado. I really doubt Z would have chased TM if he didn't have a gun.

I think it's important to consider what GZ's intentions were when he got out of his vehicle. You suggest he was chasing TM, but are you implying he was chasing him with the desire for a confrontation? Or was he chasing/following him to see where he went/maintain a visual? Where did GZ say TM was headed?

The instant before GZ gets out of his vehicle, he says "Shit, he's running", to which the dispatcher replies to GZ "He's running? Which way is he running?". It was that query that prompted GZ to get out of his vehicle. GZ does not put his car into gear, or open his door until the dispatcher asks of him this information. I think it's generally understood, or assumed, that TM was fleeing south, down the T, which would mean GZ (from the location he was in at that very moment, inside his vehicle, parked on the street) was no longer able to tell the dispatcher exactly where TM went.

What was GZ's response to the dispatcher's question about where "the suspect" was headed?: "Down towards the other entrance of the neighborhood" when the dispatcher asks him to clarify, GZ says: "The back entrance". What does this mean? It means that GZ believed the suspect was fleeing to exit the neighborhood, not to go hide in wait for GZ somewhere near the intersection of the T, or to run away and return for a confrontation (it appears one or the other happened). I think it also means that GZ never envisioned any sort of confrontation taking place, which means GZ did NOT get out of his vehicle to confront the suspect.

I welcome others to try to shoot holes in my logic.

 

[Geosurface]

I think it's important to consider what GZ's intentions were when he got out of his vehicle. You suggest he was chasing TM, but are you implying he was chasing him with the desire for a confrontation? Or was he chasing/following him to see where he went/maintain a visual? Where did GZ say TM was headed?

The instant before GZ gets out of his vehicle, GZ says "Shit, he's running", to which the dispatcher replies to GZ "He's running? Which way is he running?". It was that query that prompted GZ to get out of his vehicle. GZ does not put his car into gear, or open his door until the dispatcher asks of him this information. I think it's generally understood, or assumed, that TM was fleeing south, down the T, which would mean GZ, from the location he was in at that very moment, inside his vehicle, parked on the street (by the second curve, north to south, on Twin Trees Lane), GZ was no longer able to tell the dispatcher exactly where TM went.

What was GZ's response to the dispatcher's question about where "the suspect" was headed? - "Down towards the other entrance of the neighborhood" when the dispatcher asks him to clarify, GZ says: "The back entrance". What does this mean? It means that GZ believed the suspect was fleeing to exit the neighborhood, not to go hide in wait for GZ somewhere near the intersection of the T, or to run away and return for a confrontation (it appears one or the other happened). I think it also means that GZ never envisioned any sort of confrontation taking place.

Bravo. Exactly.

And if all of what you just said is true (it is) the idea of GZ facing any sort of legal consequence for what ended up happening becomes laughable and perverse, including the legal consequences he has already faced.

 

[Tom]

Even IF that's what happened, it is still a clear cut case of self defense as martin was on top beating zimmerman about the head, straddling him preventing him from disengaging in his brutal beating.

That's what makes it such a clear and obvious case of self defense. That's why he wasn't originally charged.

It is not true he wasn't charged. There was a process that had not concluded.

 

[Londo_Jowo]

It is not true he wasn't charged. There was a process that had not concluded.

Yet now, after this process concluded there's no evidence that backs up the probable cause affidavit that was used to arrest and charge GZ with 2nd degree murder.

Had political correctness and mod rule not been thrown into the mix GZ would have never been charged as the Seminole County DA/Sanford PD knew they didn't have evidence to prove this was not a case of self defense.

 

[Tom]

Yet now, after this process concluded there's no evidence that backs up the probable cause affidavit that was used to arrest and charge GZ with 2nd degree murder.

Had political correctness and mod rule not been thrown into the mix GZ would have never been charged as the Seminole County DA/Sanford PD knew they didn't have evidence to prove this was not a case of self defense.

that just isn't factually accurate. You're welcome to your opinion about wheter or not he should have been charged, it isn't true to say the DA or police dept reached the conclusion you say they did.

And its irrelevant anyway, there is no significance to an iterim decision, even if they had made one it wasn't up to them.

And I do not think politics had any more with charging him than it had to do with not charging him sooner.

There's at least as much political pressure on the law and order, self-defense, gun rights, side of things as there is from any other opinion.

 

[spidey07]

But this is a perversion of justice. There is zero evidence Zimmerman committed any crime and all evidence actually proves he didn't without any doubt.

Justice for z-man now.

 

[WHAMPOM]

Are you sure that's not what most people would need to do to accept your "chain of events"?

Just an IQ over 80 and an unbiased examination of the evidence would do it.