Unarmed black 17 year old shot by Neighborhood watch captain in gated community...

[Infohawk]

Then when confronted again by that man, the man still did not identify himself. Instead the man starts to reach inside his coat. Then a fight ensues. Up to this point Trayvon is well within his rights to defend himself.

First of all, it hasn't been established that is even what happened, but even if it was it probably doesn't give Martin the right to attack. Just reverse the situation. Imagine the outrage if a white person beat a black guy up because he was simply reaching into his pocket. In a civilized society, you don't attack first.

 

[classy]

First of all, it hasn't been established that is even what happened, but even if it was it probably doesn't give Martin the right to attack. Just reverse the situation. Imagine the outrage if a white person beat a black guy up because he was simply reaching into his pocket. In a civilized society, you don't attack first.

What are you talking about? Those are George Zimmermans own words in his police interview. I keep reading the same dumb line and it makes no sense. If a stranger has chased you and now met up with again and goes to reach inside their coat, what do you honestly do? Give them kiss or say oh let me see, maybe they have some candy for me. Give me a break with stupid stuff.

 

[TerryMathews]

You are correct. It was Trayvon who had no duty to retreat from a man who chased him. Then when confronted again by that man, the man still did not identify himself. Instead the man starts to reach inside his coat. Then a fight ensues. Up to this point Trayvon is well within his rights to defend himself. Now there is no evidence whatsoever that Trayvon was beating GZ. None. Zero defensive wounds, no cuts or scars to his face except the cut on his nose from the punch he had every right to throw.

Trayvon was unarmed and had pinned down an armed man who had pursued him. The armed man then shot the kid. So maybe you missed all that happened.

The law allows for the possibility that both men had a legitimate right to self defense. To the victor goes the spoils situation.

Trayvons right is not relevant in Zimmerman's court case as it does not invalidate Zimmerman's self defense right.

 

[EagleKeeper]

That's why his lawyers are spending their time getting the judge thrown off the case and trying to get Trayvon's school records. They want it to be about anything but the actual killing.

If profiling is to be called into play; they need to be able to show the profile was accurate.

Lester showed a bias; he was supposed to be replaced.

 

[EagleKeeper]

This is getting weird, a 1,555 page thread mostly based on pure hear say speculation and not hard established facts. Worse yet, getting hard established facts was blown by the local cops.

Sooner or later George Zimmerman will come to trail. And then and only then will we see what facts the Prosecution will go with while the defence will go with all kinds of doubts.

My guess is in the end, the prosecution may allow the defense into a plea bargain, like involentary manslaughter with no real jail time. But still a felony that will prevent GZ from ever working in law enforcement or carrying a firearm.

Just a guess and I could be wrong. Meanwhile why speculate endlessly.

given your track record in speculation; we can expect the opposite

 

[D1gger]

I believe it will make it to a jury trial, GZ may win, but he'll probably lose in the civil trial. Of course, that's why his supporters don't want to see a jury trial.

Nope. If he is found to have used justifiable force to protect himself he can't be sued in Florida.

Fla. Stat. § 776.032. Immunity from criminal prosecution and civil action for justifiable use of force

(1) A person who uses force as permitted in s. 776.012 is justified in using such force and is immune from criminal prosecution and civil action for the use of such force, unless the person against whom force was used is a law enforcement officer, as defined in s. 943.10(14), who was acting in the performance of his or her official duties and the officer identified himself or herself in accordance with any applicable law or the person using force knew or reasonably should have known that the person was a law enforcement officer. As used in this subsection, the term “criminal prosecution” includes arresting, detaining in custody, and charging or prosecuting the defendant.

 

[spidey07]

Show notes from Dr. Phil show. Notice still using the 12 year old angel pictures.

http://drphil.com/shows/show/1866

 

[waggy]

wow..still going strong i see.

 

[soundforbjt]

First of all, it hasn't been established that is even what happened, but even if it was it probably doesn't give Martin the right to attack. Just reverse the situation. Imagine the outrage if a white person beat a black guy up because he was simply reaching into his pocket. In a civilized society, you don't attack first.

In a truly civilized society, there's no need to carry a gun either.

 

[soundforbjt]

Show notes from Dr. Phil show. Notice still using the 12 year old angel pictures.

http://drphil.com/shows/show/1866

Georgie's friend wasn't very convincing. I hate Dr. Phil, but he tore up Georgie's cop buddy...he(GZ's BFF) came off as rehearsed and stretched the truth quite a bit.

 

[TerryMathews]

Georgie's friend wasn't very convincing. I hate Dr. Phil, but he tore up Georgie's cop buddy...he(GZ's BFF) came off as rehearsed and stretched the truth quite a bit.

How about Phil stretching the truth with that lame ass ancient photo of Trayvon?

 

[umbrella39]

I wonder what handle that guy on Dr Phil today posts here under... his 'arguments' sound very familiar...

 

[soundforbjt]

How about Phil stretching the truth with that lame ass ancient photo of Trayvon?

Yep, that trumps everything GZ's BFF stretched. :\

 

[TerryMathews]

Yep, that trumps everything GZ's BFF stretched. :\

Hard to take the moral high ground when you're pulling the same shit.

 

[waggy]

In a truly civilized society, there's no need to carry a gun either.

true. and some day hopefully we are a truly civilized society. But the fact remains there are evil people out that are willing to do evil things for self satisfaction.

 

[Svnla]

Darn, over 38K of posts and this thread is still going? I am wondering if this thread will ever go over 100K.

 

[airdata]

If profiling is to be called into play; they need to be able to show the profile was accurate.

Lester showed a bias; he was supposed to be replaced.

I imagine a judge feels greatly disrespected when he has people in contempt of court whilst also living high on the hog due to swindling ' donations ' out of the idiots of the country.

It'd be different if Zimmerman did nothing wrong to warrant such statements, but he did. That's the thing. HE DID. His bond wasn't forfeited for no reason. GZ needs to stop hiding behind lawyers and simply own up to his actions like a man.

All of you supporting his criminal deeds are pathetic.

 

[Geosurface]

- No evidence that GZ confronted TM at any time, least of all "again" (implying two times total) very strong evidence that Trayvon doubled back, and confronted GZ. Even DD's account supports this. GZ had no idea where TM was at end of NEN call.

- Dr. Phil show was largely stupid, Ostermans tried to help, may have done so slightly... but you could tell they were nervous as hell. Who can blame them? Just like GZ on Hannity, you find yourself in the national spotlight for the first time, under nearly the worst circumstances imaginable, you're going to be lucky to string a sentence together, and have any periods of time where you don't sound like a blithering idiot.

- Dr. Phil's show cleaned up the ebonics of Deedee/Trayvon and turned it into "what are you following me for?" when her testimony was "why are you following me for?" and leaned heavily on the 12 year old Trayvon pics, heavily on the Skittles narrative, heavily on emotion and myth, and edited the Ostermans to look as though they doubted what they were saying, when cutting to commercial. If you're savvy to TV techniques like this, you'd know that's what it was. If you're some 70 year old woman or just average person watching the show... you'd fall for it. Alicia Martin claimed Trayvon had "no muscle" - lol. If we could go back in time to the day before the shooting, with a picture of GZ, every single person in TM's life, parents, siblings, friends, Alicia, Trayvon himself, when shown that picture would unreservedly state that Trayvon could whoop that bitch ass fool. Bet your life on that.

- Dr. Phil implied culpability, moral, legal, or both (probably just moral) for helping GZ pick out a gun :| this was one of several times he implied legal violations in actions which are 100% legal. Usually actions by GZ that night. Heavy duty focus on "he should've stayed in that car!" hindsight is 20/20 fat-ass. GZ got out of the car with the intent and expectation to possibly keep an eye FROM A GREAT DISTANCE on where this person had run, which way they were exiting the community. With perfect hindsight, yes perhaps it wasn't the best move he could've made. The dispatch did in fact, two times, say things which implied that GZ should keep an eye on TM. Dr. Phil implied otherwise, implied that the ONLY thing ever said to GZ was "don't follow him" etc, Ostermans dropped ball on correcting this properly.

- GZ did not get into trouble for statements he made, but rather for his wife's statements about their finances. Remember, though, she offered to get the complete, most up to date information on their PayPal account from GZ's brother for BDLR at that very time. He declined. The code talk GZ and his wife used on the phone while he was in prison, upon further inspection and reflection, seems plausibly like it was intended to obscure amounts FROM OTHER PRISONERS more than anyone else. Nonetheless, they clearly could've handled the situation better. They had, however, been given about as much reason to fear and mistrust the legal system as you could imagine.

- No evidence of GZ "living high on the hog" from donations, anyone who envies the life GZ has lead since that night is misguided.

- Not only is it not clearly a "murder" as airdata says, there actually does not appear to be any way it could even POSSIBLY be a murder. Barring some really elaborate conspiracy theories. GZ was beaten, TM was not, GZ was screaming, TM was not, GZ was seen on his back with TM holding him down, beating his head on the pavement. The facts do not even allow for the POSSIBILITY that it was a murder. Charges being filed was illegal. Disbarment and prison time are in order for Angela Corey, and others.

- If the abuse levels for Aderal and the other drug were as prolific as stated, they would quite simply be made illegal. A lot of people take Vicodin when they don't strictly need to, but it is not so universally abused that just by hearing someone has a prescription you can declare they are probably abusing it... the majority of prescriptions are still for legitimate use.

- Classy claims there is no evidence TM beat GZ, that there were no cuts on GZ's face. This is categorically, undeniably false based on evidence that has been posted multiple times in this thread. Classy is IRRETRIEVABLY blinded by race-loyalty, and his opinion on this case is completely tainted and invalidated.

 

[TerryMathews]

I imagine a judge feels greatly disrespected when he has people in contempt of court whilst also living high on the hog due to swindling ' donations ' out of the idiots of the country.

It'd be different if Zimmerman did nothing wrong to warrant such statements, but he did. That's the thing. HE DID. His bond wasn't forfeited for no reason. GZ needs to stop hiding behind lawyers and simply own up to his actions like a man.

All of you supporting his criminal deeds are pathetic.

When will you understand, a judge is not supposed to become biased because he was "disrespected."

 

[EagleKeeper]

I imagine a judge feels greatly disrespected when he has people in contempt of court whilst also living high on the hog due to swindling ' donations ' out of the idiots of the country.

It'd be different if Zimmerman did nothing wrong to warrant such statements, but he did. That's the thing. HE DID. His bond wasn't forfeited for no reason. GZ needs to stop hiding behind lawyers and simply own up to his actions like a man.

All of you supporting his criminal deeds are pathetic.

You are the one that is rushing to judgement.

The full force of the state and politics is behind the railroading of Zimmerman.
The constitution affords him the right to have a lawyer.

Or you do not respect the constitution?

Criminal at this point is your opinion; not fact.

disrespecting the judge or not; the judges job is to remain neutral to ensure a fair hearing/trial.

Lester showed that he would not be neutral. He had to go.

 

[classy]

- No evidence that GZ confronted TM at any time, least of all "again" (implying two times total) very strong evidence that Trayvon doubled back, and confronted GZ. Even DD's account supports this. GZ had no idea where TM was at end of NEN call.

You keep blabbing the same nonsense. All the evidence, every last drop suggests that GZ followed and looked for Trayvon Martin till he found him trying to hide. You can argue all day about his state of mind during the fight, but not even a blind squirrel would deny the fact GZ looked for and confronted Trayvon Martin. In every single interview, each officer said plainly said to his face that he followed and looked for Trayvon Martin, "To catch the bad guy", to quote one of the officers.

 

[classy]

-- Classy claims there is no evidence TM beat GZ, that there were no cuts on GZ's face. This is categorically, undeniably false based on evidence that has been posted multiple times in this thread. Classy is IRRETRIEVABLY blinded by race-loyalty, and his opinion on this case is completely tainted and invalidated.

There is pictures of one cut on his face. No defensive wounds, no bruises to his face from being punched. He never even went for a follow up visit. Yet he claims he was having head smashed against concrete. He got punched in the face and from the wrestling on the ground he got some cuts to the back of his head. The pictures don't lie, he wasn't being pummeled. Where are the xrays? Cat Scans? Even the witness says he never seen the guy on top throw a punch.

 

[Tom]

Anybody who is cocksure Zimmerman is guilty, or innocent, more or less invalidates their position, as far as I'm concerned.

1. there's only one appropriate way to evaluate Zimmerman's and other witness's statements, and that is in a trial with all the rules and cross-examination to reach a reasoned conclusion.

2. its also not right to excuse the violent death of a person because the killer says it was self-defense. This case is not clear cut in any way and its ridiculous to say it is and shouldn't even be decided by the judicial system.

 

[classy]

Anybody who is cocksure Zimmerman is guilty, or innocent, more or less invalidates their position, as far as I'm concerned.

1. there's only one appropriate way to evaluate Zimmerman's and other witness's statements, and that is in a trial with all the rules and cross-examination to reach a reasoned conclusion.

2. its also not right to excuse the violent death of a person because the killer says it was self-defense. This case is not clear cut in any way and its ridiculous to say it is and shouldn't even be decided by the judicial system.

The most digusting thing in this whole thread is, many of Zimmermans supporters don't even want a trial. This man should stand trial, he killed a 17 year old kid.

 

[EagleKeeper]

The most digusting thing in this whole thread is, many of Zimmermans supporters don't even want a trial. This man should stand trial, he killed a 17 year old kid.

Even worse is the fact that people want him guilty without a trial.
Ignore evidence; because he shot the kid; he must pay.