Unarmed black 17 year old shot by Neighborhood watch captain in gated community...

[Don Vito Corleone]

Spidey may hold some views many of us find objectionable, but there's no real case to be made for preventing him from expressing his opinions.

There's a much better case to be made for banning JKing106, who brings nothing to the discussion except fresh-from-his-own-ass speculations about everyone who disagrees with him. And emotionally charged, fact-ignoring bullshit post after post.

At least Spidey comments on the topic at hand, JKing106 exclusively comments (and by comments I mean insults) on the other posters in the thread.

It seems to me the better approach would be to simply lock this thread as a colossal waste of time and bandwidth.

 

[umbrella39]

where did I lie? Please show us proof in the same locations that neighborhood suffered, not extensions from it.

The goalposts just keep moving. Everyone knows you made it up, you don't have to admit it.

 

[xj0hnx]

Zimmerman has a documented history of violence.

How many times was he convicted of violence?

 

[tashatexas]

()

How many times was he convicted of violence?

Two!! If there was no conviction there would have been no punishment. The punishment for the act of murder will be more severe of course.

 

[tashatexas]

"Crump has asked law enforcement officials to turn over the 911 tapes recorded the night Martin was killed. He has since filed a public records lawsuit to get the recordings."

I didn't realize the Martin family went thru all of this to get the 911 tapes. They also told the family that Zimmerman had a squeaky clean record. How many of you have been accused of domestic violence and was arrested for assaulting a police officer and also arrested for MURDER? Either George has some bad luck or he really is a miscreant as his tattoo portrays.

 

[JKing106]

Spidey may hold some views many of us find objectionable, but there's no real case to be made for preventing him from expressing his opinions.

There's a much better case to be made for banning JKing106, who brings nothing to the discussion except fresh-from-his-own-ass speculations about everyone who disagrees with him. And emotionally charged, fact-ignoring bullshit post after post.

At least Spidey comments on the topic at hand, JKing106 exclusively comments (and by comments I mean insults) on the other posters in the thread.

Fuck you, too, buddy. Now go back to earning that paycheck. Is it worth it?

 

[Geosurface]

It seems to me the better approach would be to simply lock this thread as a colossal waste of time and bandwidth.

Ah yes, of course.

DVC has grown tired of this thread, doesn't quite have the self-restraint to stay away from it entirely... so everyone else who desires to keep talking here about this ongoing case, which just had a major development in it (the judge swap) should be denied the opportunity, because DVC doesn't want to see it on the threads list and be faced with temptation.

Speaking of the Judge thing, weren't you pretty confident he wouldn't be forced to step down? I could go back and look for relevant posts but, I'm not ravenous for a "gotcha" moment that much... but I do seem to have that vague recollection.

 

[TerryMathews]

Ah yes, of course.

DVC has grown tired of this thread, doesn't quite have the self-restraint to stay away from it entirely... so everyone else who desires to keep talking here about this ongoing case, which just had a major development in it (the judge swap) should be denied the opportunity, because DVC doesn't want to see it on the threads list and be faced with temptation.

Speaking of the Judge thing, weren't you pretty confident he wouldn't be forced to step down? I could go back and look for relevant posts but, I'm not ravenous for a "gotcha" moment that much... but I do seem to have that vague recollection.

Didn't you know? It doesn't count because the appellate court had to accept the facts of the motion at face value.

 

[JKing106]

Ah yes, of course.

DVC has grown tired of this thread, doesn't quite have the self-restraint to stay away from it entirely... so everyone else who desires to keep talking here about this ongoing case, which just had a major development in it (the judge swap) should be denied the opportunity, because DVC doesn't want to see it on the threads list and be faced with temptation.

Speaking of the Judge thing, weren't you pretty confident he wouldn't be forced to step down? I could go back and look for relevant posts but, I'm not ravenous for a "gotcha" moment that much... but I do seem to have that vague recollection.

Nothing like celebrating the death of a "thug," and championing righteous, law abiding, white, Republican, Fox watching, wife beating, police assaulting, child molesting concealed carrying citizens, is there? That's what you joined this forum to do, and have averaged 11 posts per day, everyday, mainly in this thread alone. Damn, that paycheck must be good. What think tank do you work for? I want to sell out my conscience, too. At least I won't have to lie about being "liberal."

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

Ah yes, of course.

DVC has grown tired of this thread, doesn't quite have the self-restraint to stay away from it entirely... so everyone else who desires to keep talking here about this ongoing case, which just had a major development in it (the judge swap) should be denied the opportunity, because DVC doesn't want to see it on the threads list and be faced with temptation.

Speaking of the Judge thing, weren't you pretty confident he wouldn't be forced to step down? I could go back and look for relevant posts but, I'm not ravenous for a "gotcha" moment that much... but I do seem to have that vague recollection.

Yeah, I do think this thread is generally silly and a waste of time, but don't have the self-restraint to stay away from it entirely. Guilty as charged. Still, I've posted here probably 10 times in the last 6-8 weeks, while it accrues page after page of endless-loop bickering. I guess what I meant about locking it was that it would be good for the people wasting their time on it (myself included), not that I actually think as a matter of moderation that locking it is the right thing to do. I think the whole thread is an incredible waste of time and energy. Honestly, and I'm not trying to throw stones, how many hundreds of hours have you spent browsing and responding to this thread (not to mention watching Youtube videos, and making your various videos, artwork, diagrams, etc.)? I have spent too many hours myself, and I wish I hadn't bothered.

As you no doubt noticed, the reason I finally chimed in again was to point out that members here were falsely claiming that this neighborhood has been free of crime since Mr. Martin's death - as you know it really bothers me seeing this dead kid portrayed as some kind of Scarface, regardless of whether or not his killing was legally justified.

I am not 100% certain but I may well have predicted that the motion for recusal would fail, because such motions almost always do. I'm not convinced as a matter of law that the appellate panel's ruling was the right one, but I can see that in such a high-visibility case they didn't want to create a potential appellate issue based on the strident language in the trial judge's written orders (which was, IMO, mostly indicative of his entirely justified frustration at being lied to by the Zimmermans).

That being said, I don't plan to pop in here again anytime soon, since I don't really see the point of this discussion and haven't for many weeks. It appears from my casual observation that it's just the usual suspects posting the same things (some true and fair and some stupid and unreasonable, on both sides of the discussion) over and over and over and over. Not sure why anyone finds this a worthwhile exercise.

 

[lotus503]

The goalposts just keep moving. Everyone knows you made it up, you don't have to admit it.

Yup, just like jewelry values etc.
Über douche doubling down on stupid.

 

[SpatiallyAware]

So much bias and BS in this thread.... Whether it's due to racism (tasha) race guilt/racism (jking) profession (DVC), or gun/property/'self' rights (spidey).


In some form or factor, every person is somewhat correct.

But to me, the absolute bottom line is that if you don't want someone to defend themselves and kill you, don't attack them.

Some of the people you attack might be giant pussies, unarmed and with no way to defend themselves, or maybe you can beat them up in a fight.

Others might just defend themselves by killing you.

The real root of this, is that 'real life' is not high school. It's not a place with someone around the corner to protect you. If you CHOOSE to dress like a burglar or 'thug', or other nefarious aspect of society... Expect people to treat you as such.

And if you are treated with suspicion due to the CHOICES you've made about how you represent yourself, don't viciously attack that person or they just might kill you in defense.

 

[SpatiallyAware]

Ah yes, of course.

DVC has grown tired of this thread, doesn't quite have the self-restraint to stay away from it entirely... so everyone else who desires to keep talking here about this ongoing case, which just had a major development in it (the judge swap) should be denied the opportunity, because DVC doesn't want to see it on the threads list and be faced with temptation.

Speaking of the Judge thing, weren't you pretty confident he wouldn't be forced to step down? I could go back and look for relevant posts but, I'm not ravenous for a "gotcha" moment that much... but I do seem to have that vague recollection.

Expect others to jump in calling for 'locking the thread' now that no evidence whatsoever has come out to show zimmerman as guilty.

As the case moves on and the emotional trainwrecks start falling apart they will all call for no discussion at all.

 

[xj0hnx]

()

Two!! If there was no conviction there would have been no punishment. The punishment for the act of murder will be more severe of course.

He was? Could you link to the two times he has been convicted of a violent act?

 

[TerryMathews]

Expect others to jump in calling for 'locking the thread' now that no evidence whatsoever has come out to show zimmerman as guilty.

As the case moves on and the emotional trainwrecks start falling apart they will all call for no discussion at all.

Of course. Same reason the mass media stopped covering the trial even though there have been notable decelopments: it doesn't fit the narrative.

The bail revocation was covered on CBS. The removal of Lester wasn't.

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

Of course. Same reason the mass media stopped covering the trial even though there have been notable decelopments: it doesn't fit the narrative.

The bail revocation was covered on CBS. The removal of Lester wasn't.

That is a fair observation, but there really haven't been any notable developments for months in terms of evidence regarding guilt or innocence. It's not as though there has been a steady flow of exculpatory evidence. The removal of the judge is interesting but has nothing whatsoever to do with whether or not Mr. Zimmerman is guilty. I think when the dust settles Mr. Zimmerman will be acquitted for lack of evidence, which is probably a just outcome. It would be nice to have more confidence in what actually happened, though - that we will probably never know with any real certainty.

 

[spidey07]

So you discount the eye witness account, all the wounds, proving with clear evedence this was self defense? It's not due to lack of evidence that he's innocent, it's because of the overwhelming amount that actually proves self defense. Well above and beyond a preponderance of evidence. Way beyond it.

 

[tcG]

It's a tragic situation where they were essentially both at fault.

/thread

 

[spidey07]

It's a tragic situation where they were essentially both at fault.

/thread

Not according to the law. The fault lies with the criminal who committed felony assault and battery.

Don't want to get shot? Don't brutally beat somebody.

 

[nobodyknows]

That is a fair observation, but there really haven't been any notable developments for months in terms of evidence regarding guilt or innocence. It's not as though there has been a steady flow of exculpatory evidence. The removal of the judge is interesting but has nothing whatsoever to do with whether or not Mr. Zimmerman is guilty. I think when the dust settles Mr. Zimmerman will be acquitted for lack of evidence, which is probably a just outcome. It would be nice to have more confidence in what actually happened, though - that we will probably never know with any real certainty.

LOL! The ironing

 

[HumblePie]

LOL! The ironing

haha, wait, lack of evidence proving guilt? as stated by our resident lawyer? Isn't that the point of the prosecution? To find and bring evidence to bear that proves guilt? Isn't that sort of the whole point to our justice system? I agree nobodyknows, oh the ironing.

In any case where someone has been accused of a crime, that means SOMEONE believes they did the wrong deed regardless of the evidence. Otherwise that person would never stand accused. If there isn't evidence that proves the accusation, then that person is innocent. Yay for justice.

I haven't posted here in quite a while. For more than obvious reasons. Still won't post for a bit after this post. No point. I'll stop by from time to time and read the stupid crap for the lulz and maybe see if anything new has popped up.

 

[EagleKeeper]

()

Two!! If there was no conviction there would have been no punishment. The punishment for the act of murder will be more severe of course.

Accused or convicted?

There is a difference!

 

[airdata]

And.....

Zimmerman's lawyers making a mockery of the justice system by managing to get the judge removed from the case.

Was he supposed to speak in a different way when he revoked Zimmerman's bond for lying to the court? I'm not sure how all of that stuff works since I'm just thinking about this as a matter of common sense.

 

[airdata]

So you discount the eye witness account, all the wounds, proving with clear evedence this was self defense? It's not due to lack of evidence that he's innocent, it's because of the overwhelming amount that actually proves self defense. Well above and beyond a preponderance of evidence. Way beyond it.

When he chases after a 17 year old kid after referring to him on a recorded call to police as a fucking punk and saying " these assholes always get away" it's clear he went after him with intent other than simply asking him what he was doing in HIS neighborhood.

The reasonable minds in this thread have all agreed that his injuries were minor, and as such you should stop pretending they were more than they were. You can't chase after somebody and instigate a fight and then simply pull your gun and shoot them if you don't get the better end of the exchange.

5 minutes w\ Zimmerman on the stand is all you'd need to show that he was grossly negligent in all of his actions that night. Calling the police on random people as he'd done many times in the past... fine. Exiting his car and chasing after somebody while muttering ' fucking punk ', not fine. He clearly had a pre conceived notion of who Trayvon was without having witnessed him actually do anything wrong.

Simply a sad case of mistaken identity in that he assumed Trayvon to be one of the burglars they'd had recently... sure.. But that doesn't excuse his actions one little bit.

 

[spidey07]

When he chases after a 17 year old kid after referring to him on a recorded call to police as a fucking punk and saying " these assholes always get away" it's clear he went after him with intent other than simply asking him what he was doing in HIS neighborhood.

The reasonable minds in this thread have all agreed that his injuries were minor, and as such you should stop pretending they were more than they were. You can't chase after somebody and instigate a fight and then simply pull your gun and shoot them if you don't get the better end of the exchange.

5 minutes w\ Zimmerman on the stand is all you'd need to show that he was grossly negligent in all of his actions that night. Calling the police on random people as he'd done many times in the past... fine. Exiting his car and chasing after somebody while muttering ' fucking punk ', not fine. He clearly had a pre conceived notion of who Trayvon was without having witnessed him actually do anything wrong.

Simply a sad case of mistaken identity in that he assumed Trayvon to be one of the burglars they'd had recently... sure.. But that doesn't excuse his actions one little bit.

Actually, you can. The law has been explained 100s of times already. That's why it's so easy to dismiss all your "what ifs" with zero evidence showing that's what happened.

When on back (eye witness, forensics), mounted (eye witness, forensics), screaming for your life (eye witness including zimmerman stating immediately when arrested it was him) after being brutally beaten (multiple injuries on front and back of head) legal precedent showing this automatically puts one in reasonable fear for their life you are legally allowed to stop the threat with whatever force necessary including lethal. That's the LAW.

Can you say what crime zimmerman was committing? No, so he wasn't in commission of a crime.
Was zimmerman legally allowed to be where he was? Yes
Was zimmerman in reasonable fear of his life? Yes, precedent says when on back and your attacker is on top of you, that automatically qualifies as reasonable fear for your life or great bodily injury.
To qualify your wild ass what ifs let's go further...
Was zimmerman trying to retreat? Yes, but was prevented (eye witness)
Was zimmerman trying to disengage and making his attacker know this? Yes (eye witness)
Was zimmerman in reasonable fear of life/bodily injury? Yes, being on back and mounted automatically qualifies that.

So, EVEN IF HE WAS INITIAL AGGRESSOR, he can still lawfully shoot. We have eye witness and other testimony and physical evidence that proves beyond a doubt it was lawful self defense.

There - those things prove it was self defense and there can be no doubt. Until you have something that can prove those 3 criteria aren't met, it shall remain self defense.