Unarmed black 17 year old shot by Neighborhood watch captain in gated community...

[EagleKeeper]

True statement, but attack someone with a gun pointing at them? Not me. TM may have well confronted GZ to impress the girl, but not if he had a gun out. Not IMO anyway.

Fully agree here.

He probably also did not know that DeeDee was two timing.

 

[emperus]

Then again maybe TM just sucker punched GZ to the nose, knocked him down and started beating on him.

I'm not sure you've read all the evidence or ur deliberately being obtuse.

Explain to me how the sucker punch happened. Did TM sucker punch GZ and he fell forward 45 ft? How did GZ make it from the T to the spot where TM's body lay?

Btw, TM did not have bruising on his hands. This is the 2nd time u've perpetuated that myth. He had a small cut on one finger.

Ask yourself why you need to misrepresent the facts to find GZ faultless,

 

[emperus]

True statement, but attack someone with a gun pointing at them? Not me. TM may have well confronted GZ to
impress the girl, but not if he had a gun out. Not IMO anyway.

Your posts just amaze me.

People don't confront people they believe are following them unless they have some weapon. Even most gang mumbers won't confront someone by themselves unless they are armed. That is why usually you see gangs attack in packs. Human beings are cowards that way. We have a fundamental instinct to survive. That is why TM initally ran and GZ got out of his car. Who do you think had the weapon?

I almost got shot this last weekend. I was out and about late Fri. Me and a friend were picking up another friend in downtown Boston when we tried to go through a light. A guy decided to walk through a green light. I honked, he walked slower. (btw he was 20ish, skinny, white). I thought he was crazy and gave him a stare. Unfortunately, I had to pull over at my friends building to wait for my friend. This guy decided to approach our car. I was dumbfounded. Here we are, two black guys sitting in a car, and my friend is a large guy. I thought at least all the sterotypes would have prevented this guy from walking to the car. As he got closer, I realized he had a weapon. Nobody in their right mind would approach two individuals looking for a fight. Long story short, he walked up to the car, asked us if we had a problem, said he's not one to walk away from problems. We diffused it, yet he decided to make a gesture a to his back and as he walked away, he pulled up his shirt to show us what that gesture meant. He had a gun tucked in his pants. He wanted us to see, like he saved our lives.

Anyways, what tipped me off that he had a gun was him doing something ridiculous like walking to our car to confront two guys bigger than him who had no problem staring him down at the crosswalk. People, are naturally inclined to live. So, it's unbeleiveable to say TM walked up to GZ with an intent to fight someone without knowing he had the hand up. He didn't even sucker punch him. If I had that intent, I would have looked for a rock, or some object, waited till he wasn't looking then hit him hard. I wouldn't have spoken and I don't believe any honest person would say they believe that story.

 

[SpatiallyAware]

So you honk at a pedestrian, glare at them... then you're surprised when confronted. Emp you are a real piece of work, remarkably similar to your martyr trayvon.

 

[emperus]

So you honk at a pedestrian, glare at them... then you're surprised when confronted. Emp you are a real piece of work, remarkably similar to your martyr trayvon.

It was a green light on Mass ave ( a busy street 4 lanes (2 on each side)), traffic was flowing and he decided to walk through a green light. He almost got hit by a previous car. He had me and the car next to me waiting in the intersection as he slowly illegally crossed the street during a green light. Which part of that ddin't you get?

 

[NeoV]

I still frankly think TM knew exactly why GZ was watching him, knew he looked suspicious because he'd worked hard to cultivate exactly that persona... he WANTED to look suspicious/thuggish/intimidating/badass and mission accomplished. He got exactly the reaction he wanted to, and I believe he chose to attack GZ, and waited til he was both out of his car and off his phone (I suspect TM probably had a good idea who was on the other end of that line, though perhaps he assumed it was other neighborhood watch, etc)

Geo - are you off your meds again? For a while, your posts were making sense, but now you are drifting dangerously close to spatial/spidey territory.

TM was such a bad-ass, that he was standing under a covered area to.......stay out of the rain.

TM was such a bad-ass, that when he realized the same car was driving past him 4 or 5 times, he started to head home.

TM was such a bad-ass, that he ran after getting a look at GZ and seeing he was on the phone.

This is the persona that he had worked so hard to cultivate? These were the actions of someone trying to be a bad-ass?

You have put so much of who you think TM was - into what you've read from Social Media accounts, and from hacked things discussed at TheConservativeTreeHouse - that you've lost sight of basic facts.

I see a hundred kids that dress/act/look just like TM every day driving through the city. They aren't wanna-be thugs - they are black male teenagers - that's how they dress, that's how they talk, that's how they act. To you - "thug life" = teenage black males.

You've demonized TM to the point that you can't even see GZ clearly changing his story - and again - I'm not even saying GZ needed to change his story - but obvious things he has changed - like "he wasn't running - he was skipping" - as if to imply, again, that if TM didn't run away from him, then he certainly couldn't have been chasing after him, right?

As for GZ's lies - what about his answers to the police that night? Your theory about the lies involving the money - clearly you've forgotten the silly "code" that he and his wife were speaking in? Does that strike you as the actions of an honest guy?

What about the huge differences in his version and his wife's version from the domestic dispute case? Let me guess - of course she was the liar, not GZ, right?


Finally - those of you saying "why would GZ pull his gun out, blah blah blah" - Are you really trying to tell us that GZ was a totally rational, logical person? How many excuses do we need to make for this guy? Why did he even get out of his car if he's the master of logic?



I get that there are people on both sides of this - but to have completely shut off the ability to look at things objectively is sad.

 

[Londo_Jowo]

So what proof do you have that GZ pulled out his gun prior to the altercation?

Did he mention that GZ had a gun in his conversation with Dee Dee?

 

[NeoV]

also - don't see anyone answering my questions about the fight - not surprising though

 

[NeoV]

No one has said, as far as I can see - that GZ had the gun out prior to the conversation that Dee Dee heard.

That said, them struggling over the gun for most of the 'fight' duration makes much more sense in terms of the wounds/distance/lack of defensive wounds etc.

Remember - George - in his walk-through, claimed to be reaching for his phone - and in fact went to great lengths to exaggerate the motion he took - that very well could have actually been him reaching for his gun.

The ensuing struggle and physical evidence makes much more sense if that was the case.

 

[emperus]

That is a question nobody has still answered, Why did GZ not land or throw one punch? Why did he not scratch pull or do something. Where were his hands during this whole time. You don't need your hands to scream.

 

[OCNewbie]

That is a question nobody has still answered, Why did GZ not land or throw one punch? Why did he not scratch pull or do something. Where were his hands during this whole time. You don't need your hands to scream.

Why not offer up your own hypotheses to your own questions?

If nobody will answer it, why not set the example?

 

[JKing106]

Your posts just amaze me.

People don't confront people they believe are following them unless they have some weapon. Even most gang mumbers won't confront someone by themselves unless they are armed. That is why usually you see gangs attack in packs. Human beings are cowards that way. We have a fundamental instinct to survive. That is why TM initally ran and GZ got out of his car. Who do you think had the weapon?

I almost got shot this last weekend. I was out and about late Fri. Me and a friend were picking up another friend in downtown Boston when we tried to go through a light. A guy decided to walk through a green light. I honked, he walked slower. (btw he was 20ish, skinny, white). I thought he was crazy and gave him a stare. Unfortunately, I had to pull over at my friends building to wait for my friend. This guy decided to approach our car. I was dumbfounded. Here we are, two black guys sitting in a car, and my friend is a large guy. I thought at least all the sterotypes would have prevented this guy from walking to the car. As he got closer, I realized he had a weapon. Nobody in their right mind would approach two individuals looking for a fight. Long story short, he walked up to the car, asked us if we had a problem, said he's not one to walk away from problems. We diffused it, yet he decided to make a gesture a to his back and as he walked away, he pulled up his shirt to show us what that gesture meant. He had a gun tucked in his pants. He wanted us to see, like he saved our lives.

Anyways, what tipped me off that he had a gun was him doing something ridiculous like walking to our car to confront two guys bigger than him who had no problem staring him down at the crosswalk. People, are naturally inclined to live. So, it's unbeleiveable to say TM walked up to GZ with an intent to fight someone without knowing he had the hand up. He didn't even sucker punch him. If I had that intent, I would have looked for a rock, or some object, waited till he wasn't looking then hit him hard. I wouldn't have spoken and I don't believe any honest person would say they believe that story.

Think about who you're speaking to. The majority are frightened white male computer nerds who've never been in a fist fight, much less been in a confrontation with someone with a weapon. I'm betting most of them have never been to a real ghetto. They absolutely cannot relate to any culture other than WASP culture. The entire breadth of their experience in these situations comes from movies, and whatever they've read or heard from their favorite conservative talking head. In their minds, if a crime is committed, the black person will always be a rapist, drug dealer, thief, and murderer. Always. Why do think they're fighting so hard to defend their "Shoot Anyone Who Frightens Me" law? They're afraid of everything, and everyone.

 

[Londo_Jowo]

If they were struggling over the gun for most of the fight duration then GZ would meet the criteria set forth in item #3 of Florida Statue 776.013 and would be justified in his use of force (including deadly force) to protect himself.

http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes...ng&URL=0700-0799/0776/Sections/0776.013.html/

[SIZE=-1](3) A person who is not engaged in an unlawful activity and who is attacked in any other place where he or she has a right to be has no duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground and meet force with force, including deadly force if he or she reasonably believes it is necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony.
[/SIZE]

 

[JKing106]

Why not offer up your own hypotheses to your own questions?

If nobody will answer it, why not set the example?

It's been answered a thousand times, racist fucktard. But you and your buttbuddies keep pulling excuses out of your asses.

When are you going to step up and stop being a pussy, and just say you hate n****rs. God hates a coward, from what I hear.

 

[OCNewbie]

If they were struggling over the gun for most of the fight duration...

I'm not a gun expert, so perhaps those more familiar with guns can elaborate on this idea, but I just can't imagine two (physically) grown men struggling for a semi-auto like the one GZ had, for 45+ seconds (the minimum duration the screams lasted) without the gun going off. Is it likely the safety would have prevented the gun from firing with 4 hands, and 16 fingers fighting chaotically over the gun for perhaps close to a minute? If GZ had pulled his own gun, you would think he would have had the presence of mind, in that 45-60+ seconds, to take the safety off.

 

[Londo_Jowo]

I'm not a gun expert, so perhaps those more familiar with guns can elaborate on this idea, but I just can't imagine two (physically) grown men struggling for a semi-auto like the one GZ had, for 45+ seconds (the minimum duration the screams lasted) without the gun going off. Is it likely the safety would have prevented the gun from firing with 4 hands, and 8 fingers fighting chaotically over the gun for perhaps close to a minute?

The chances are very high for a accidental firing with people trying to gain control of the gun. I doubt GZ had the safety set on the gun either as it would prevent being able to quickly fire the gun should the need arise.

 

[emperus]

So, I have a hard time understanding...

GZ says he forgot he was armed. How could he forget he was armed?

1.) He had just told the dispatcher TM had something in his waist? If you suspect someone may be armed, you don't think, let me get my gun?

2.) Then he jumps out the car and remembers his 2nd flashlight? Yet he forgets he had a gun?

3.) He is walking through a dark cutthrough with someone who may be a criminal and he doesn't have his hand close to his gun?

4.) Lastly, TM approaches him and he reaches for his phone which he happens to put in the pocket on the same side as his gun?

I call BS.

 

[SpatiallyAware]

So, I have a hard time understanding...

<snip>

I call BS.

We know.... We know.

 

[Londo_Jowo]

You call BS all day long, now show the evidence that backs up your theory.

Don't forget GZ is innocent until proven guilty.

 

[emperus]

You call BS all day long, now show the evidence that backs up your theory.

Don't forget GZ is innocent until proven guilty.

For once Londo, why don't you make a post actually talking about some of the evidence rather than guessing on the outcome.

Ur becoming like Spidey. Cut and paste. Why even bother if you have nothing else to say.

 

[chucky2]

Stop being a pussy and call me a n****r lover. Oh, you won't, because you're a giant pussy. This is a prime example of the new breed of conservatives. They talk a big, tough game, want to carry concealed weapons, call anyone who points out their rabid racism racists against the oppressed white man, if the flag had a dick they'd suck it, etc.

What it all comes down to is this: they're frightened, authoritarian, racist, walking vaginas. Huge seeping pussies. Scared beta males who will bend over in 2 seconds for anyone with a badge or uniform.

:thumbsup: This is what I mean OCNewbie, who else is delivering entertainment like this in P&N?

Answer: No one.

Dude whatever we need to do to keep you making posts like this let us know. You are literally better than anything TV has to offer (well, except the p0rn type stuff). Maybe consider your own YouTube channel?

 

[EagleKeeper]

I'm not sure you've read all the evidence or ur deliberately being obtuse.

Explain to me how the sucker punch happened. Did TM sucker punch GZ and he fell forward 45 ft? How did GZ make it from the T to the spot where TM's body lay?

Btw, TM did not have bruising on his hands. This is the 2nd time u've perpetuated that myth. He had a small cut on one finger.

Ask yourself why you need to misrepresent the facts to find GZ faultless,

Where did you get the 45ft distance? What statement is it stated? Or did you count the cement sections of the sidewalk?

 

[Mr.Mischief]

I'm not a gun expert, so perhaps those more familiar with guns can elaborate on this idea, but I just can't imagine two (physically) grown men struggling for a semi-auto like the one GZ had, for 45+ seconds (the minimum duration the screams lasted) without the gun going off. Is it likely the safety would have prevented the gun from firing with 4 hands, and 16 fingers fighting chaotically over the gun for perhaps close to a minute? If GZ had pulled his own gun, you would think he would have had the presence of mind, in that 45-60+ seconds, to take the safety off.

The chances are very high for a accidental firing with people trying to gain control of the gun. I doubt GZ had the safety set on the gun either as it would prevent being able to quickly fire the gun should the need arise.

It's possible the pistol wasn't cocked. No amount of pulling the trigger would get it to fire if that was the case.


Sent from my HTC One S

 

[nobodyknows]

I'm not sure you've read all the evidence or ur deliberately being obtuse.

Explain to me how the sucker punch happened. Did TM sucker punch GZ and he fell forward 45 ft? How did GZ make it from the T to the spot where TM's body lay?

Btw, TM did not have bruising on his hands. This is the 2nd time u've perpetuated that myth. He had a small cut on one finger.

Ask yourself why you need to misrepresent the facts to find GZ faultless,

Dumb ass, I was responding to someone else's ridiculous ASSumption with one of my own. You take my statement out of context and then try to pick it apart.

Ask yourself why you need to do that?

 

[Geosurface]

GZ isn't the most well spoken person or the best at conveying what he means.

I've always had a knack for discerning what such people actually mean, and have helped clear up more misunderstandings between two parties than I can possibly begin to count...

I can't be sure but my feeling is that GZ meant:

Not that he literally, truly FORGOT he had a gun in the way emperus may be trying to make it sound, trying to make it sound absurd and unbelievable that is... I think he just meant that he was so accustomed to having the gun that it wasn't directly on the forefront of his mind as he got out of the car, and during perhaps some of the fight when he was dizzy and distracted by getting viciously beaten.

I also think when he said "skip" he didn't mean it like you're envisioning... some little girl spreading daisies from a basket skipping along... but rather, again... GZ expressing himself very poorly, I think I can envision exactly what he meant. Have you ever seen someone sort of do a hybrid between a run and a walk? Not talking about a jog, but where they will run a few paces, then walk a few, etc.

Think about all the variations you've seen of that sort of motion, and I think you'll be close to what GZ meant.

I still think the distance south of the "T" that they ended up at is easily accounted for by GZ instinctively trying to get away, but not seeing well or being very clear because of the daze he was in from the punch... and covering some distance that way. I can easily see Trayvon pulling at him, trying to stop him and force him to the ground, as he stupidly stumbles along, and that sort of motion could very quickly account for the kind of distance we see.

I will admit I don't have any idea how Trayvon's phone got south of Trayvon... I could suggest a few notions but I'll just admit that sort of puzzles me.

as for this claim emperus is making about humans and survival instincts... there are exceptions to everything, and being drugged up on purple drizzank boyeeeeeeeeeeee will absolutely taint what might be normal human actions. Even within normal human actions you will see people who are hotheads, looking for an excuse to do violence... this is particularly common among young males, even moreso among young delinquent males on their third suspension... even moreso among young, delinquent, drug abusing, suspicious jewelry bagging males who like to pose thug style on their facebook, etc. COMPLETELY believable.

So you can talk about most people and most people not confronting, etc... but there are people that do shit like that. There absolutely are. We all know it, and I think Trayvon sized up GZ, saw he was a small doughy guy, a "cracka ass cracka bitch" etc... and I think he also looked like a pretty juicy target once he was out of his car, and off of his phone.

practice your MMA skillz, impress Deedee, have a good story for twitter later about beating some fool's ass... vent your frustrations about being on the verge of being KICKED OUT (not just suspended) at school, frustrations for getting "roped" for using weed... frustrations for 7-11 clerk not selling you a blunt, etc etc etc

100%, completely believable.

EDIT: I've also heard that model of pistol doesn't have a traditional safety and just requires a lot of squeeze or something, right?