Unarmed black 17 year old shot by Neighborhood watch captain in gated community...

[OCNewbie]

Everytime I watch something about GZ, I notice more contradicitons.

That's because you're specifically looking for them.

 

[BUTCH1]

"IMO", in your OPINION, is not "a known fact" like you put it earlier. Therefore, because it's not a known fact, it won't hold the weight in a civil trial like you implied it would/will. Besides, they never said "go back to your vehicle, sir." They basically said "it's not necessary for you to continue following him", and he gave them an affirmative/acknowledging reply.

The prosecution will need his location when that call took place and where the altercation ultimately happened, expect GZ to get away with a lie here. the other witness is dead.

 

[QueBert]

Everytime I watch something about GZ, I notice more contradicitons.

1.) Frank Taiffe. Frank Taiffe obviously spoke to GZ after the incident, that's why he was so detailed when talking to reported. When he was going through the crime scene with a reporter. He states GZ parked with his headlights away from the cut through. He makes a point of describing the direction. But in his walkthrough and in his statements, GZ says he parked with his headlights facing the cut through. Which way was he parked? Taiffe's inital version would make sense as that is the direction of traffic. If GZ parked the other way he was parking on the wrong side of the street.

2.) After thinking about that, it led me to a 2nd thought. GZ claims he didn't follow TM. But how and why did he drive from the club house to the cut through? In his reeneactment, he claims the dispatcher asked him if "to get to somewhere where he can see him". The dispatcher never said that. So the question becomes, if he wasn't following TM, why did he end up at the T?

in my 37 years of being alive I've learned one thing about people. Don't ever try to make sense of stories a known liar tells. They will be filled with glaring holes that they don't even see. Zimmerman's a classic case of the ultimate bullshitter. I don't see how anyone believes anything that comes out his mouth, hell if everything he's said to everyone about this case up until this point had been taped. I bet we could turn it into 4 different movies. He can't even get the little things like "he was running away" "he was skipping away" correct.

 

[sandorski]

Maybe teenage boys should learn not to attack another person as that person maybe armed.

Maybe old people should stop shooting Teens?

 

[Infohawk]

Maybe old people should stop shooting Teens?

Why do you think "teens" should be capitalized here?

 

[sandorski]

Why do you think "teens" should be capitalized here?

Free Speech

 

[Geosurface]

We really don't have that much evidence of GZ being a liar, people just like to grab ahold of that and repeat it so often that it becomes the accepted idea about him.

The biggest thing they point to is the bond money/paypal thing but the more I've read about that, I think what happened was O'Mara told the Zimmermans that claiming indigence and saying you have no money is standard operating procedure, he and the judges and the prosecutors all know how it goes... don't worry about it, trust me, etc.

What O'Mara didn't count on is that all the normal rules he's used to aren't being followed here. And he assumed GZ was more shrewd than he is. GZ is a little bit slow, and too trusting. He spoke with police too much, and he blabbed on the phone about talking to O'Mara about $37,000 etc. O'Mara found himself being screwed by these people who normally play the little game of "my client has no means" because they had a special hard on to take GZ down.

They weren't going to go so far as to bring O'Mara himself down, but only so long as he didn't get in the way of them taking GZ down even further on this. If O'Mara really wanted to be honest, he could come out and expose the whole thing, how they always do this... and a blind eye is turned (I'm not just speculating here, I've heard that there is this understanding in many courts) but if he did expose it he'd lose his own career.

I think GZ actually probably felt uncomfortable going along with it, and part of the reason why may be that he knows he can't lie for shit.

I still find all of his various recitations of what happened that night to be pretty damned consistent, as OCNewbie said, if you're specifically looking for contradictions and you have set your bar extremely low for what counts as one, of course you'll keep finding them. It's a normal aspect of human memory and speech.

 

[EagleKeeper]

I think an important witness is the lady who saw a chase. She has never said she didn't know if she saw two people or not, she has always said it was two people, she just didn't know who was chasing whom. If the jury believes what she saw was associated with this crime then Zimmerman is toast. Obviously we know for 100% sure it was Zimmerman chasing Martin. Zimmerman has already locked himself down to a story that does not include being chased.

Has she changed the testimony from people to shadows and then back?

 

[JKing106]

Are you insane? JKwhatever (forget the other one, he/she is quite obviously just an idiot with an agenda) is the best thing to hit this forum since The Mooner, Fail234, SuperSmartPoliticalGuy, and PeopleNeedTrainingOnHowToPickGarbageUpOffTheGround. Heck, I think he's probably the greatest thing to hit this forum yet. It's so rare we get someone so lacking in intelligence they don't hide their White Guilter and/or Bleeding Heart behind some smarmy liberal logic to not just outright be (correctly) labeled a White Guilter and/or Bleeding Heart.

Here we have someone who clearly is a White Guilter - and I think we can all agree, a textbook example of one - and we get to see the inner workings of the White Guilter mind, unencumbered by...well, anything.

Sh1t man, really, you're blocking this guy? If you were smart you'd be copying all his posts and making a book called, 'White People: Avoid Being Overly PC With Your Child, This is the Result'. It would sell like hotcakes...

Chuck

Stop being a pussy and call me a n****r lover. Oh, you won't, because you're a giant pussy. This is a prime example of the new breed of conservatives. They talk a big, tough game, want to carry concealed weapons, call anyone who points out their rabid racism racists against the oppressed white man, if the flag had a dick they'd suck it, etc.

What it all comes down to is this: they're frightened, authoritarian, racist, walking vaginas. Huge seeping pussies. Scared beta males who will bend over in 2 seconds for anyone with a badge or uniform.

 

[nobodyknows]

Also Druid - John's "MMA" statement - Prosecution can site the lack of blood and bruising on TM's hands - the lack of anything on GZ's face other than one punch to the nose, and the complete lack of any defensive wounds on GZ's hands and arms.

Again, the two of them wrestling for control of the gun makes far more sense than a prolonged beating.

Then again maybe TM just sucker punched GZ to the nose, knocked him down and started beating on him.

 

[nobodyknows]

Also Druid - John's "MMA" statement - Prosecution can site the lack of blood and bruising on TM's hands - the lack of anything on GZ's face other than one punch to the nose, and the complete lack of any defensive wounds on GZ's hands and arms.

Again, the two of them wrestling for control of the gun makes far more sense than a prolonged beating.

But there was bruising on TM's hand.

 

[nobodyknows]

Geo - I'm not sure why you think who was yelling is so important - I think only Tasha at this point is claiming it wasn't GZ - and if you want to go back and forth with that, be my guest.

As to your comment about GZ being "unguarded.." - it points towards only his ignorance - nothing else.

Ignorance? LOL, you're really "out there" on this one.

 

[nobodyknows]

this "fight" was a struggle over a gun and I don't blame TM one bit for mounting and trying to disarm the lying asshole who had a history of being a thug like person.

Someone pulls a gun on you so you attack them? Highly unlikely.

 

[nobodyknows]

Maybe teenage boys should learn not to attack another person as that person maybe armed.

No shit.

 

[nobodyknows]

If GZ goes to prison he better become somone's bitch real quick.

Don't count your chickens before they're hatched.

 

[nobodyknows]

and the state needs to convince 100% of the jurors as well

It's a waste of taxpayer's money to even take it to trial.

 

[nobodyknows]

Maybe adults shouldn't go running after strangers at night for no reason while carrying a deadly weapon, he put a 17 yr old in that situation and anyone's shocked he reacted badly? were you mature enough at 17 to know what to do if a stranger stalks and pursues you? I HIGHLY DOUBT IT...

I was certainly mature enough at that age to have went straight home and not take the chance of a confrontation with a stranger following me.

 

[Londo_Jowo]

Someone pulls a gun on you so you attack them? Highly unlikely.

I seriously doubt TM knew GZ had a gun until seconds before he was shot. No one in their right mind would try to attack someone that had a gun on them.

Why didn't "Dee Dee" hear TM mention anything about GZ having a gun?

I think John telling them to stop/he was calling the police distracted TM long enough for GZ to access his gun and due to the fact he felt that no one was going to help get TM off of him/stop the altercation he used it to defend himself.

I don't think the prosecution a smoking gun, only a story that doesn't have enough evidence to prove GZ committed 2nd degree murder or manslaughter. All the evidence to date tends to corroborate GZ's story rather than refute it. He was charged to appease the masses and nothing more.

 

[nobodyknows]

Maybe old people should stop shooting Teens?

Yeah, just let them break your nose and then look the other way... that is if your still alive after they finish beating on you.

 

[EagleKeeper]

I was certainly mature enough at that age to have went straight home and not take the chance of a confrontation with a stranger following me.

Teen boys do crazy things to impress a girl.
One - turn off common sense

 

[nobodyknows]

I seriously doubt TM knew GZ had a gun until seconds before he was shot. No one in their right mind would try to attack someone that had a gun on them.

I agree, but several posters seem to think that GZ initiated the confrontation by pulling a gun, but who in their right mind would attack someone who had a gun pointed at them?

 

[Geosurface]

I was certainly mature enough at that age to have went straight home and not take the chance of a confrontation with a stranger following me.

as was I, and I was also mature enough to talk it out, and ask a person what the deal was, why they were following/watching me, etc.

I was also humble enough at 17 to realize that if I was a guest of a guest in a gated community 4 hours from where I lived, that the likely reason for being watched was that I looked out of place and they didn't recognize me.

Or at least, that was high in the running for a good reason why they might be.

I still frankly think TM knew exactly why GZ was watching him, knew he looked suspicious because he'd worked hard to cultivate exactly that persona... he WANTED to look suspicious/thuggish/intimidating/badass and mission accomplished. He got exactly the reaction he wanted to, and I believe he chose to attack GZ, and waited til he was both out of his car and off his phone (I suspect TM probably had a good idea who was on the other end of that line, though perhaps he assumed it was other neighborhood watch, etc)

I honestly wish we could all magically see exactly what happened that night, because I think it would be startlingly close to what GZ describes, and I still think one of the best moves GZ could do is get a proper CGI re-enactment done, or one with actors, or both. Beleivability would skyrocket.

 

[Geosurface]

I agree, but several posters seem to think that GZ initiated the confrontation by pulling a gun, but who in their right mind would attack someone who had a gun pointed at them?

And who in their right mind would pull a gun on someone a few feet from several neighbors' houses, who at that hour would all still be awake, when you know law enforcement is on the way, and you've been trained about things like brandishing, etc, and you are working on a criminal justice degree and are intimately familiar with how illegal that would be?

I guarantee you, that gun was holstered and TM completely unaware of it until he found out about it in the harshest way possible.

Teen boys do crazy things to impress a girl.
One - turn off common sense

True, but that doesn't give them a free pass to beat someone viciously and not face the possible consequences of that decision.

Old men sometimes drive through farmers' markets downtown too, killing and injuring people along the way... their age also is why they did that, just like a teen doing something stupid... but they're still held to account.

 

[nobodyknows]

Teen boys do crazy things to impress a girl.
One - turn off common sense

True statement, but attack someone with a gun pointing at them? Not me. TM may have well confronted GZ to impress the girl, but not if he had a gun out. Not IMO anyway.

 

[OCNewbie]

True statement, but attack someone with a gun pointing at them? Not me. TM may have well confronted GZ to impress the girl, but not if he had a gun out. Not IMO anyway.

I've had a gun pulled on me exactly twice in my life (unless I'm forgetting something...). The first time it happened, it was at a traffic light, and the driver of the car to my right (I was also driving), showed his gun (but didn't point it at me). I was instantly filled with fear, and I imagine that's the reaction most people would have.

2nd time was when a cop was investigating an incident at the apartment complex I was living in at the time. I was running late, walking quickly, making my way back to my vehicle, and he thought I might have been the guy they were looking for, so he came up behind me, gun drawn, pointed directly at me, ordered me to the ground, got on top of me, put his knee in my back, and loudly asked me why I was running from him, etc. Oddly enough, because it was a cop, I was MUCH more calm, and it really didn't scare the crap out of me when he had his gun on me. I just did what he said and when he realized he had the wrong guy, he let me go. He was actually kinda dickish about it, I think, but whatever... I just went on about my day.