Unarmed black 17 year old shot by Neighborhood watch captain in gated community...

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airdata

Diamond Member
Jul 11, 2010
4,987
0
0
airdata,

Do you draw no distinction between getting out of his car to go see if he could spot him leaving the gates about 2 blocks south, in other words for a distant last glimpse of Trayvon to relay to police...

vs.

Getting out of his car with the intent to run at break neck pace until he caught up with Trayvon, in order to have some sort of confrontation with him?

I mean, in your mind is there really, truly no difference between those two reasons for getting out of the car?

Using the language he was using, there was only one reason he got out of the car which was to chase after and detain the child who as far as we know right now was only running because some crazy asshole was following him around.
 

EagleKeeper

Discussion Club Moderator<br>Elite Member
Staff member
Oct 30, 2000
42,589
5
0
There would be, except airdata is basing what is he saying off the Dee Dee's testimony and the police calls from GZ.

You waste a lot of time weaving these intricate stories that have nothing to do with the case or the evidence, these aren't even inferences, they are simply fantasies.

Prosecutors have stated that there is no evidence of chasing.
You and AirData may need to provide them with your intuition to have them change their judgement.

Both Zimmerman and DeeDee stories have Martin initiating the confrontation.
Again, you and AirData may need to provide them with your intuition on the evidence that goes against those statements.
 

QueBert

Lifer
Jan 6, 2002
22,966
1,168
126
Why did TM come back after he lost GZ? Seems like TM was the one to start the confrontation.

The flaw in your logic is Georgie had already confronted Travyon, at worst Trayvon was simply standing his ground. Which is something that apparently only Georgie had the right to do.

Georgie started some shit and it ended up being that he couldn't handle the shit. So he took the easy way out, simple as that.
 

spidey07

No Lifer
Aug 4, 2000
65,469
5
76
The flaw in your logic is Georgie had already confronted Travyon, at worst Trayvon was simply standing his ground. Which is something that apparently only Georgie had the right to do.

Georgie started some shit and it ended up being that he couldn't handle the shit. So he took the easy way out, simple as that.

Everything you described is still perfectly lawful self defense. I'm thankful Z-man took "the easy way out", that's a lot better than him being dead or wounded by the hands of a thug.

There will be no more polar bear hunting for Martin, no more. He came across a victim who could defend himself from martin's brutal, vicious and totally unprovoked attack.
 

QueBert

Lifer
Jan 6, 2002
22,966
1,168
126
Everything you described is still perfectly lawful self defense. I'm thankful Z-man took "the easy way out", that's a lot better than him being dead or wounded by the hands of a thug.

There will be no more polar bear hunting for Martin, no more. He came across a victim who could defend himself from martin's brutal, vicious and totally unprovoked attack.

It's really a shame Trayvon wasn't a good fighter or he could have neutralized Georgie. Someone with some actual fighting experience could have KO'ed Georgie pretty easily from the mount position. I know as I've been mounted and KO'ed dozens of times. Hopefully if Georgie's ever dumb enough to confront another person who hadn't done shit. They actually know how to fight and put his ass to sleep.
 

spidey07

No Lifer
Aug 4, 2000
65,469
5
76
It's really a shame Trayvon wasn't a good fighter or he could have neutralized Georgie. Someone with some actual fighting experience could have KO'ed Georgie pretty easily from the mount position. I know as I've been mounted and KO'ed dozens of times. Hopefully if Georgie's ever dumb enough to confront another person who hadn't done shit. They actually know how to fight and put his ass to sleep.

No, hopefully the next time a thug acts aggressive or gives threats he shoots them before they ever lay a hand on him. That's what needs to happen all over the country with these thugs, make them learn their behavior is NOT acceptable to society. And in many/most states their victim can shoot them dead before they ever lay a hand on them.

But thanks for proving that the position zimmerman was in he was defenseless, unable to retreat and therefore was perfectly lawfully able to shoot in self defense.
 

QueBert

Lifer
Jan 6, 2002
22,966
1,168
126
No, hopefully the next time a thug acts aggressive or gives threats he shoots them before they ever lay a hand on him. That's what needs to happen all over the country with these thugs, make them learn their behavior is NOT acceptable to society. And in many/most states their victim can shoot them dead before they ever lay a hand on them.

But thanks for proving that the position zimmerman was in he was defenseless, unable to retreat and therefore was perfectly lawfully able to shoot in self defense.

wait lol so you're now saying people should shoot others who haven't even touched them simply because they believe them to be a thug?


Ok, now I remember why I left this thread 2 months ago, you're fucking gone. way way way gone.

I'm out this thread again, I see absolutely nothing has changed.
 

spidey07

No Lifer
Aug 4, 2000
65,469
5
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wait lol so you're now saying people should shoot others who haven't even touched them simply because they believe them to be a thug?


Ok, now I remember why I left this thread 2 months ago, you're fucking gone. way way way gone.

I'm out this thread again, I see absolutely nothing has changed.

If you are acting in a threatening and aggressive manner and make a verbal threat to my life or great harm, then yes I can and will lawfully shoot you. I hope you learn the self defense laws in your state before you go assaulting somebody. Remember, assault doesn't mean touch. Lest you get treyvOWNED.
 

Geosurface

Diamond Member
Mar 22, 2012
5,773
4
0
I think so much of this case and the reaction to it comes down to two segments of American society being on different pages about some key issues.

One segment believes that any sort of physical assault is uncalled for, completely over the top, dangerous, terrifying, heinous. The law agrees with them, because this segment wrote the law. This segment upholds and enforces the law.

The other segment has a much higher comfort level with brawling and punching someone for dogging you, disrespecting you, eyeballing you, whatever. People raised within this segment grow up having a very different understanding of when violence is acceptable, and what sorts of behaviors, words, actions can be considered valid provocation to violence.

There are some white people in the second segment, and there are some black people in the first segment, but they represent a minority within each of their racial groups. (Think Kid Rock and Bryant Gumbel)

So I guess we can chalk this up to another cultural point of difference much like y'know, whites can't jump, dance, have no rhythm, talk differently... and a million other things like that which black comedians get a lot of mileage out of.

I think if you walked up to a lot of black youths, and asked them whether a white person would tend to call cops quicker and for lesser events than a black person, they'd agree wholeheartedly. Then they'd punch you.

This gets at what I'm talking about. Segment 1 views police intervention as more of a positive and necessary thing than Segment 2 does. Segment 1 will invoke the rule of law and the police much more quickly. For a much wider variety of things.

In Segment 2, calling the cops for a "simple" beatdown or "fight" is unthinkable.

I think GZ was firmly in Segment 1, and his interpretation of what was going on was rooted in that. His reactions, from calling cops to using his firearm, were based on Segment 1 thinking.

I think TM was raised in a family that was closer to Segment 1 than a lot of black families, but by no means fully within it. I think TM rebelled against whatever level of Segment 1 thinking HAD taken root in his family, because he associated it with being a pussy, acting white, and being a little bitch. He wanted to be hard, tough, and intimidating. He wanted to style himself as a thug and a gangsta and a criminal, and sought to embrace Segment 2 thinking more than his older half-brother appears to, more than his mother appears to, and in a way I suspect is more in line with how his father USED to be some years ago (Removed gang tattoo after first couple press conferences, etc.)

I think TM probably thought of attacking GZ as a fairly justified reaction to disrespect and calling cops on him, which I believe he knew GZ had done. I think his intention was to knock GZ out with that punch, and he improvised very poorly after that didn't happen.

They were on different pages. But it's not just a toss up, Segment 1 thinking = continued civilization we'd all like to live in, if too many people start being on the page of Segment 2 thinking... civilization turns into a festering pile of shit, one big Detroit.
 
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Londo_Jowo

Lifer
Jan 31, 2010
17,303
158
106
londojowo.hypermart.net
The flaw in your logic is Georgie had already confronted Travyon, at worst Trayvon was simply standing his ground. Which is something that apparently only Georgie had the right to do.

Georgie started some shit and it ended up being that he couldn't handle the shit. So he took the easy way out, simple as that.

Really, then why did the prosecution investigator testify under oath in the original bond hearing that they had no evidence to show GZ confronted TM or started the physical altercation?

The evidence/witness statements show this to be a case of self defense by GZ as TM was in the commission of assault and battery against him when fired his pistol.
 

airdata

Diamond Member
Jul 11, 2010
4,987
0
0
The flaw in your logic is Georgie had already confronted Travyon, at worst Trayvon was simply standing his ground. Which is something that apparently only Georgie had the right to do.

Georgie started some shit and it ended up being that he couldn't handle the shit. So he took the easy way out, simple as that.

Pretty much, yes. That's exactly what happened.
 

airdata

Diamond Member
Jul 11, 2010
4,987
0
0
Prosecutors have stated that there is no evidence of chasing.
You and AirData may need to provide them with your intuition to have them change their judgement.

Both Zimmerman and DeeDee stories have Martin initiating the confrontation.
Again, you and AirData may need to provide them with your intuition on the evidence that goes against those statements.

You're talking out of your ass, sir.

Go listen to DeeDee's interview. She describes the 2 exchanging words. Trayvon says ' why are you following me ' Then the other party ( zimmerman ) says " what are you doing around here " in an angry tone, which PERFECTLY matches up w\ the recorded phone call, him exiting the car, and chasing trayvon.

Then she thinks she hears ' get off, get off' But even without that juicy morsel her previous statement contradicts the story that Zimmerman concocted to tell police.

Innocent people don't lie on police reports and make up stories about the dead body they just created.
 

Geosurface

Diamond Member
Mar 22, 2012
5,773
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Keeping an eye on someone you find suspicious in your neighborhood, even up to and including following them or getting out of your car so you can maintain visual on them, and in fact even up to and including APPROACHING THEM and CONFRONTING THEM and QUESTIONING THEM, are all legal behaviors and not considered by the law to be valid basis for committing assault upon the person.

There doesn't appear to be any reason to even believe GZ did the ones I put in caps. Other than ignorance of case evidence or a desire to believe it.

If it was important to TM to be "hard" and I have no doubt that it was, he could've still accomplished this by telling GZ off in an expletive-laden tirade about how he needed to back the fuck up and stop profilin' his ass.

Assault was not a valid, nor a legal level to take his reaction to. It is why he is dead now.
 

Londo_Jowo

Lifer
Jan 31, 2010
17,303
158
106
londojowo.hypermart.net
You're talking out of your ass, sir.

Go listen to DeeDee's interview. She describes the 2 exchanging words. Trayvon says ' why are you following me ' Then the other party ( zimmerman ) says " what are you doing around here " in an angry tone, which PERFECTLY matches up w\ the recorded phone call, him exiting the car, and chasing trayvon.

Then she thinks she hears ' get off, get off' But even without that juicy morsel her previous statement contradicts the story that Zimmerman concocted to tell police.

Innocent people don't lie on police reports and make up stories about the dead body they just created.

We, heard both of Dee Dee's stories and the "get off, get off" was in the second interview. I do believe during the interview the prosecuting attorney had to remind her they needed the truth and not was she thought happened or what she felt she needed to say. I have a strong feeling her twitter/facebook postings that day will betray her.
 

airdata

Diamond Member
Jul 11, 2010
4,987
0
0
GZ did alot that night that could have made any self respecting person fear for their safety.

Trayvon stood his ground, and then dip shits like you are trying to say the guy who makes the other guy stand his ground can then stand his ground after he forces the other guy to stand his ground.

Just stfu and stop repeating the same racist, inbred rhetoric.
 

spidey07

No Lifer
Aug 4, 2000
65,469
5
76
GZ did alot that night that could have made any self respecting person fear for their safety.

Trayvon stood his ground, and then dip shits like you are trying to say the guy who makes the other guy stand his ground can then stand his ground after he forces the other guy to stand his ground.

Just stfu and stop repeating the same racist, inbred rhetoric.

That's the way the law works.

You are NOT allowed to mount somebody on the ground and pound their head, that is a felony and as such can get you shot.

That's why this is such a clear case of self defense. Nothing zimmerman did can show it WASN'T self defense. Even IF martin was somehow defending himself, the FACT that martin was on top of zimmerman when shot means from a legal perspective zimmerman's actions are automatically self defense.

The FACT that martin was on top of zimmerman when shot after martin brutally beat him is what really seals this as self defense. There is zero doubt of it being self defense nor has ANY evidence been shown it wasn't self defense.

Not a single shred, so if you believe zimmerman is guilty, then you MUST be a racist because facts and law say he's innocent and committed no crime and should never have been arrested.
 

corwin

Diamond Member
Jan 13, 2006
8,644
9
81
GZ did alot that night that could have made any self respecting person fear for their safety.

Trayvon stood his ground, and then dip shits like you are trying to say the guy who makes the other guy stand his ground can then stand his ground after he forces the other guy to stand his ground.

Just stfu and stop repeating the same racist, inbred rhetoric.
And no self respecting person who feared for their safety would have hid/circled around and confronted someone who made them feel that way, your pathetic little mind just can't grasp that simple fact can it? Stick your head in the sand again and shove your race baiting bullshit square up your ass, and while you're at it get a fucking clue.
 

They Live

Senior member
Oct 23, 2012
556
0
71
That's the way the law works.

You are NOT allowed to mount somebody on the ground and pound their head, that is a felony and as such can get you shot.

That's why this is such a clear case of self defense. Nothing zimmerman did can show it WASN'T self defense. Even IF martin was somehow defending himself, the FACT that martin was on top of zimmerman when shot means from a legal perspective zimmerman's actions are automatically self defense.

The FACT that martin was on top of zimmerman when shot after martin brutally beat him is what really seals this as self defense. There is zero doubt of it being self defense nor has ANY evidence been shown it wasn't self defense.

Not a single shred, so if you believe zimmerman is guilty, then you MUST be a racist because facts and law say he's innocent and committed no crime and should never have been arrested.

LOL, so the law basically states you can pick a fight with anyone you want and then shoot them and claim self defense if you are losing the fight?

I guess I can walk up to anyone I feel like, punch them dead in the face, and if they fight back and kick my ass, I can just shoot them, because obviously the law says I can.

What a wonderful law that protects "innocent" people.
 

TerryMathews

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
11,464
2
0
You're talking out of your ass, sir.

Go listen to DeeDee's interview. She describes the 2 exchanging words. Trayvon says ' why are you following me ' Then the other party ( zimmerman ) says " what are you doing around here " in an angry tone, which PERFECTLY matches up w\ the recorded phone call, him exiting the car, and chasing trayvon.

Then she thinks she hears ' get off, get off' But even without that juicy morsel her previous statement contradicts the story that Zimmerman concocted to tell police.

Innocent people don't lie on police reports and make up stories about the dead body they just created.

At this point, DeeDees statements are hearsay at best. First off, it will have to be shown she could even have heard what she claims to. Second, its not admissible as is. She will have to be sworn in and MOM will have the opportunity to cross examine.

I dont believe her, and it has nothing to do with her being black. Honest people dont need to be reminded to tell the truth.
 

Londo_Jowo

Lifer
Jan 31, 2010
17,303
158
106
londojowo.hypermart.net
LOL, so the law basically states you can pick a fight with anyone you want and then shoot them and claim self defense if you are losing the fight?

I guess I can walk up to anyone I feel like, punch them dead in the face, and if they fight back and kick my ass, I can just shoot them, because obviously the law says I can.

What a wonderful law that protects "innocent" people.

Maybe you should take the time to read the statute before making ignorant statements. Let me post it for you as I suspect you will be too lazy to educate yourself.

http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes...ng=&URL=0700-0799/0776/Sections/0776.041.html

[SIZE=-1]776.041&#8195;Use of force by aggressor.&#8212;The justification described in the preceding sections of this chapter is not available to a person who[SIZE=-1] [/SIZE]1)&#8195;Is attempting to commit, committing, or escaping after the commission of, a forcible felony; or
(2)&#8195;Initially provokes the use of force against himself or herself, unless[SIZE=-1] [/SIZE]a)&#8195;Such force is so great that the person reasonably believes that he or she is in imminent danger of death or great bodily harm and that he or she has exhausted every reasonable means to escape such danger other than the use of force which is likely to cause death or great bodily harm to the assailant; or
(b)&#8195;In good faith, the person withdraws from physical contact with the assailant and indicates clearly to the assailant that he or she desires to withdraw and terminate the use of force, but the assailant continues or resumes the use of force.

[/SIZE]