Unarmed black 17 year old shot by Neighborhood watch captain in gated community...

[TerryMathews]

Zimmerman in his own recorded words says " black male, late teens", so what are you squabbling about?

I'm glad you agree with since most late teens are fully grown.

 

[TerryMathews]

Prosecution has said under oath there is no evidence zimmerman followed martin.

And afaik that testimony is evidence at trial.

 

[Geosurface]

The chances of someone dying from one punch is about equal to or greater than being struck with lightening

You make a good point, that is very rare.

I know of only one case of someone being struck with lightening.

 

[Londo_Jowo]

Yet, the justified use of force laws in Florida and many more states do not require the person to wait until their critically injured or on death's door step before using force to defend themselves. Just a reasonable fear that they're in imminent danger of death or great bodily harm.

 

[EagleKeeper]

Yea and how many people are punched everyday in the country, such a bullshit argument. But you and few others continue to reach for the damn extremes. No evidence huh, how did his ass end up in a confrontation with Martin? Thats right he followed him.

And how many people are shot in this coutnry and live?

A lot more than end up dead from one bullet.

 

[Geosurface]

Yep and I dunno about anyone else but if I was on my back with a large stranger straddling me and he'd already broken my nose and slammed my head on pavement, and was continuing to assault me, I would definitely be in fear of imminent death and/or great bodily harm. Without a doubt.

But maybe that's just because I'm a pussy ass white boy who doesn't come from the streets, because I know on the streets there's a higher threshold for what would constitute that sort of serious danger.

There are certainly different standards about when it's okay to get physically violent with someone (when they disrespect you in any way, or you just feel like it, or they look like a good target for some Knockout King)

When would that threshold be reached to the satisfaction of a majority of the black community? Well, given that the person who got shot and died was black, and the person who shot him wasn't... I'd say the answer is "never."

Let's face it, for a lot of people who think in purely racial terms about everything in their lives, this case was settled the minute they heard the races of the parties involved. They weren't ever going to entertain anything GZ had to say about what happened, or what the evidence showed, or any sort of argument, no matter how firmly based in the evidence and the law... that it could've been warranted to fire that shot.

 

[momeNt]

Yet, the justified use of force laws in Florida and many more states do not require the person to wait until their critically injured or on death's door step before using force to defend themselves. Just a reasonable fear that they're in imminent danger of death or great bodily harm.

More importantly, these statutes do not preclude the right to self-defense even if you are the instigator.

I personally do not think that there should be civil and criminal immunity for where there is found to be proof of provocation, some sort of reckless or negligent manslaughter should be able to apply as well as civil damages.

 

[WHAMPOM]

He sure looks 6'3" to me.

Could it be 6'2" or 6'1"? Possible. Could it be 5'11"? No.

Is it safe to say he was one tall motherfucker regardless of the exact figure? Yes.

Does height intimidate you that much? What he looks like is a skinny kid who could not punch his way out of a wet paper bag.

Trouble I have with your convience store shots is where is the kid in the grey hoody John mistook for a white shirt? Are you sure you have the right pictures?

oh oh late lunch is over. see ya dont wanna smell ya

 

[Londo_Jowo]

More importantly, these statutes do not preclude the right to self-defense even if you are the instigator.

I personally do not think that there should be civil and criminal immunity for where there is found to be proof of provocation, some sort of reckless or negligent manslaughter should be able to apply as well as civil damages.

I have no problem with this as by Texas law you can't provoke someone and claim self defense. However, there's no evidence that GZ provoked the confrontation/altercation. Had this happened in Texas the lack of evidence as to who started/instigated the confrontation/altercation would more than likely ended up with no charges being filed or the person being arrested.

Florida statute provides means that a person who is the aggressor to regain the right to self defense once the person has exhausted all reasonable means to extricate/remove yourself from an altercation.

 

[Geosurface]

Does height intimidate you that much? Nope, I'm 6'1" myself, and my best friend is 6'4", my brother is 6'3" What he looks like is a skinny kid who could not punch his way out of a wet paper bag. Right... and if he was alive and heard you say that, he'd beat the shit out of you for implying he wasn't a hard badass. Was he some sort of God of Physical Combat? No, of course not. But anyone who is saying a kid of that size, of that age, with those proportions, couldn't fight or do any damage to anyone is either completely disconnected from any sort of physical aspect of life, or delusional in the service of maintaining their preconceived notions.

Trouble I have with your convience store shots is where is the kid in the grey hoody John mistook for a white shirt? Are you sure you have the right pictures? What are you talking about? That's Trayvon. John might have seen Trayvon's other sweatshirt that was underneath the hoodie, if his hoodie had been pulled up a lot. Or he just mistook the color. I believe at other times he was more clear on the dark color of the hoodie. Certainly more likely to mistake a grey hoodie for white than a red jacket. But we know who was on top and who was on bottom even without John because of the injuries, ballistics, and GZ's account, which held up under multiple lie detectors and which he offered over and over again without benefit of legal counsel. The most senior people the SPD and DA's office had to offer all agreed charging him with ANY crime was inappropriate.

Answers in bold.

Had this happened in Texas the lack of evidence as to who started/instigated the confrontation/altercation would more than likely ended up with no charges being filed or the person being arrested.

Had Trayvon been white, George been black, George been female, both been black, George's last name been Gonzalez, or if the family had not gotten race baiting attorneys involved, or not hired a spin doctor, or if the average IQ of the American populace was higher, or if the media was responsible and professional, then charges wouldn't have been filed in Florida either.

 

[airdata]

Originally Posted by spidey07
Prosecution has said under oath there is no evidence zimmerman followed martin.

What a fucking joke that is. We've all heard the call.. it's pretty fucking clear what he was doing. If he didn't follow him, why didn't he exit his car and say ' fucking punk ' as he gave chase?

For fuck sake... how stupid do you have to be to not gather that from listening to the recorded phone call? What else was he doing when he left the car?

And then we have DeeDee who hears the 2 exchange words to the contrary of Zimmerman's official story.

Good Game there asshole... caught lying... caught decieving the court and bond revoked.

It's not going to be hard to paint zimmerman as the deceitful, lying piece of shit that he is.

And how many people are shot in this coutnry and live?

A lot more than end up dead from one bullet.

If this is in continued discussion about my statements regarding murder charges coming from people who have been knocked out and then hit their head on the ground and die... you may as well save your breath. Statements of fact are just that. You can't counter a simple fact w\ bs statements.

Originally Posted by Londo_Jowo
Had this happened in Texas the lack of evidence as to who started/instigated the confrontation/altercation would more than likely ended up with no charges being filed or the person being arrested.

Good thing we have Zimmerman on a recording incriminating himself. He was acting in the capacity of neighborhood watch. Yet he breaks the guidelines in order to chase after Trayvon because he wasn't going to let that asshole get away like those assholes so often do. So he exits his car and chases after that fucking punk and in the end accomplishes his goal of not letting that asshole, that fucking punk get away.



Also, I see they're going to allow stuff from Trayvon's background to be presented at court.

Since Trayvon isn't the one on trial I'd only assume it'd be fair to enter in all of the like evidence against Zimmerman. You pull Trayvon's myspace/facebook stuff... put Zimmerman's up there where he's acting all gangster talking about beating felony charges. The defense likely didn't think before they acted yet again. They're representing a piece of shit and they're simply trying to put the victim on trial as opposed to actually defending their client because they know he's guilty.

 

[Geosurface]

airdata,

Do you completely rule out that GZ might've been a little caught up in the moment, wanting to please the dispatch and cops in general by helping them find Trayvon to question, overly sure that Trayvon would keep running, maybe reading more into what the dispatch said about "keep an eye on him and let me know if he does anything else" and "which way is he running?" than the dispatch intended...

BUT, that maybe, just maybe, all of the "fucking punks" and "assholes always get away" was just bravado for the dispatch operator, and a genuine venting of frustration with all the burglaries lately?

But that GZ was waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too big of a pussy to EVER approach Trayvon or desire direct contact with him?

I suspect GZ about shat a brick when TM reappeared. I don't think he was half as brave as you act like.

I think he assumed Trayvon was long gone. Maybe that was a stupid assumption, I don't know.

Have you ever expressed frustration about something without it being accompanied by murderous rage?

 

[Londo_Jowo]

What a fucking joke that is. We've all heard the call.. it's pretty fucking clear what he was doing. If he didn't follow him, why didn't he exit his car and say ' fucking punk ' as he gave chase?

For fuck sake... how stupid do you have to be to not gather that from listening to the recorded phone call? What else was he doing when he left the car?

And then we have DeeDee who hears the 2 exchange words to the contrary of Zimmerman's official story.

Good Game there asshole... caught lying... caught decieving the court and bond revoked.

It's not going to be hard to paint zimmerman as the deceitful, lying piece of shit that he is.


If this is in continued discussion about my statements regarding murder charges coming from people who have been knocked out and then hit their head on the ground and die... you may as well save your breath. Statements of fact are just that. You can't counter a simple fact w\ bs statements.

The prosecution must prove that GZ couldn't reasonably fear he was in imminent danger of death or great bodily harm using evidence and witness statements. GZ did state that he and TM exchanged words, just not the same one's that Dee Dee claims.

The prosecution has already testified under oath that they have no evidence that GZ continued to follow TM or started the altercation with him.

 

[airdata]

airdata,

Do you completely rule out that GZ might've been a little caught up in the moment, wanting to please the dispatch and cops in general by helping them find Trayvon to question, overly sure that Trayvon would keep running, maybe reading more into what the dispatch said about "keep an eye on him and let me know if he does anything else" and "which way is he running?" than the dispatch intended...

BUT, that maybe, just maybe, all of the "fucking punks" and "assholes always get away" was just bravado for the dispatch operator, and a genuine venting of frustration with all the burglaries lately?

But that GZ was waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too big of a pussy to EVER approach Trayvon or desire direct contact with him?

I suspect GZ about shat a brick when TM reappeared. I don't think he was half as brave as you act like.

I think he assumed Trayvon was long gone. Maybe that was a stupid assumption, I don't know.

Have you ever expressed frustration about something without it being accompanied by murderous rage?

If any of that is important, it is important to show that Zimmerman acted irrationally and was out playing police when he should have been sitting in his car or going about his business.

There's no evidence Trayvon was doing anything wrong at all and Zimmerman went vigilante on his ass despite having no evidence he was doing anything wrong.

 

[Londo_Jowo]

If any of that is important, it is important to show that Zimmerman acted irrationally and was out playing police when he should have been sitting in his car or going about his business.

There's no evidence Trayvon was doing anything wrong at all and Zimmerman went vigilante on his ass despite having no evidence he was doing anything wrong.

Actually the evidence is quite strong that TM was committing assault and battery at the time he was shot.

 

[airdata]

The prosecution has already testified under oath that they have no evidence that GZ continued to follow TM or started the altercation with him.

As I just stated... that's a fucking joke once you listen to the phone call. You literally hear him exit his car and give chase.

To say he didn't go after him is simply a documented lie. We have a fucking recording. Then we have a witness in DeeDee who hears the 2 exchange words.

Zimmerman didn't think anybody witnessed that stuff go down when he was scrambling to concoct a story to explain away all the shit he'd done wrong that night.

 

[airdata]

Actually the evidence is quite strong that TM was committing assault and battery at the time he was shot.

Learn to read, asshole.

You and spidey sharing accounts or something?

 

[airdata]

http://www.amazon.com/Learn-Read-Kin...ked+on+phonics

Here you go Jowo. This should improve your quality of life drastically.

 

[Londo_Jowo]

Maybe you should invest in that product. I can read quite well, thank you.

Two witnesses place TM on top of GZ prior to the shot and he has facial/head wounds, this clearly meets the Florida statutes for assault and battery.

You may want to go watch the CNN video of the original bond hearing or read the transcript as without a doubt Investigator Gilbreath clearly states that the prosecution doesn't have any evidence that GZ continued to follow TM or started the confrontation/.altercation

 

[Geosurface]

airdata,

Do you draw no distinction between getting out of his car to go see if he could spot him leaving the gates about 2 blocks south, in other words for a distant last glimpse of Trayvon to relay to police...

vs.

Getting out of his car with the intent to run at break neck pace until he caught up with Trayvon, in order to have some sort of confrontation with him?

I mean, in your mind is there really, truly no difference between those two reasons for getting out of the car?

 

[classy]

Last I checked late teens would be considered a man and not a boy/kid.

Yea, only when the teen is a certain color.................................

 

[Londo_Jowo]

Yea only when the teen is certain color.................................

Doesn't matter what color, race, or sex.......late teens are considered adults.

 

[momeNt]

airdata,

Do you draw no distinction between getting out of his car to go see if he could spot him leaving the gates about 2 blocks south, in other words for a distant last glimpse of Trayvon to relay to police...

vs.

Getting out of his car with the intent to run at break neck pace until he caught up with Trayvon, in order to have some sort of confrontation with him?

I mean, in your mind is there really, truly no difference between those two reasons for getting out of the car?

There would be, except airdata is basing what is he saying off the Dee Dee's testimony and the police calls from GZ.

You waste a lot of time weaving these intricate stories that have nothing to do with the case or the evidence, these aren't even inferences, they are simply fantasies.

 

[momeNt]

Yea, only when the teen is a certain color.................................

18-19 white males in NHL all the time (that's hockey in case you are actually black).

 

[airdata]

Doesn't matter what color, race, or sex.......late teens are considered adults.

http://www.state.gov/m/dghr/flo/c21961.htm

Turning 18: When a child reaches the age of 18, they become a full legal adult in most US localities. That may not be the case in overseas environments where the age for acquiring adult status under another country’s jurisdiction may differ significantly.


You better order the hooked on phonics I linked a few posts ago, bud.