Uganda Debates Death Penalty for Gays

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Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
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I didn't say they're the same. I said the bigoty is the same type of bigotry, just expressed differently based on different cultural norms, just as in my other post I showed how our norms changed over time.

Note that the bill has removed the harshest things, down to limited prison terms, making it a lot closer to the laws in some of our right-wing states just seven years ago.

Your not finding it convincing is your problem, not the post's, but you are not too convincing when you generalize what all Ugandans are like based on one crazy dictator.


My world view is more nuanced than that. I would no more sat "all Ugandans are" than I 'd say all Dems or Reps are alike, or that those who favor or dislike certain things fit into some mold which makes for a more convenient ideological taxonomy.

The reason for bring up Amin is my sense of irony. If one equates people who don't support gay marriage as being of some monolithic mindset (or to go the other way and say that those who would allow it are enlightened) is tantamount to saying that bad leaders are all alike. Bush isn't a cannibal because it's out of our cultural norm, but if it were, would Obama be a cannibal as well because some see him as being less than hoped for?

It's projection. "Person X thinks this way because that's how I reconcile the world and perception is reality".

My personal belief is that most states which allow gay marriage do so because the majority don't really care one way or another. That lets the minority run the herd. In some places it is the anti gay marriage folk who win the day, and elsewhere it's the opposite.

A small minority of people determine what happens because the majority are more concerned when the new HDTVs are going on sale. That's how it was with Iraq, and that's how it is with this issue.

Indifference is the way of things, and many who have an opinion one way or another couldn't give you a good reason for their feelings. Thinking is hard.
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
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It's an African State...

Idi Amin is one of the first things that comes to my mind...

-John

\
So if we're discussing French healthcare, you might make a post about Napolean because you connect him with France? You are not making any sense.

He was clearly trying to make a comment about why Uganbdans are looking at a kill gays bil by attributing to the people that they are somehow like Idi Amin.
 

Zorkorist

Diamond Member
Apr 17, 2007
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Hayabusa,

We have a Representative Government, which is about all we can do against mob rule. (Democracy).

This is why voting is so important.
 

Zorkorist

Diamond Member
Apr 17, 2007
6,861
3
76
\
So if we're discussing French healthcare, you might make a post about Napolean because you connect him with France? You are not making any sense.

He was clearly trying to make a comment about why Uganbdans are looking at a kill gays bil by attributing to the people that they are somehow like Idi Amin.
Aren't they, Craig?

Untill they start acting, civilized, aren't they Idi Amin?
 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
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Hayabusa,

We have a Representative Government, which is about all we can do against mob rule. (Democracy).

This is why voting is so important.


Voting is important, but when the time comes that party concerns outweigh the need of the public, what quality of representation can we expect?

I see a great deal more effort in filling war chests than responsible governance, and that's by both parties.

When the choice is given by Hobson, what's the real benefit in picking what's offered?

This is a two part responsibility. We need to elect competent leaders, but we have to have them to elect. The political system fails us.
 

Zorkorist

Diamond Member
Apr 17, 2007
6,861
3
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Voting is important, but when the time comes that party concerns outweigh the need of the public, what quality of representation can we expect?

I see a great deal more effort in filling war chests than responsible governance, and that's by both parties.

When the choice is given by Hobson, what's the real benefit in picking what's offered?

This is a two part responsibility. We need to elect competent leaders, but we have to have them to elect. The political system fails us.
It does fail US.

But everynow and then someone like Ross Perot comes and tries to help us.

Next time maybe, we/he will get the votes.
 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
50,879
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\
So if we're discussing French healthcare, you might make a post about Napolean because you connect him with France? You are not making any sense.

He was clearly trying to make a comment about why Uganbdans are looking at a kill gays bil by attributing to the people that they are somehow like Idi Amin.


My head is a scary place I'll admit. It's going to be a real bitch trying to understand it by internet analysis.

To make it short, if I thought that Ugandans were closet Amins, I would have said so. They are not, however it is my belief that the conditions which supported Amin coming to power and executing gays are related. It's a crappy place.
 

Zorkorist

Diamond Member
Apr 17, 2007
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Doesn't the thread title, begin and end this discussion?

Maybe we should be talking about when mercenaries should take Uganda, but otherwise talking about them is useless.

-
 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
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Doesn't the thread title, begin and end this discussion?

Maybe we should be talking about when mercenaries should take Uganda, but otherwise talking about them is useless.

-

There's a bit of a moral quandary for you. No one supports the death penalty for gays (that I know of at least), but one could say that without intervention we are condemning gays to death if this should come to pass.

If we do send people into take those responsible out, then we are going to kill a lot of innocent people.

Through action or inaction we watch people die. Like the Rush tune goes "If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice".

I'm not going into hand wringing here, but it's an old problem that keeps popping up. What is the best that can come from evil choices?

Heh, I think too much :D
 

Zorkorist

Diamond Member
Apr 17, 2007
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Well, to be honest Hayabusa, this thread is an exercise in judgement to me.

If I really thought Ugandan's were about to execute people for being gay, I would go fight.

Or, to your question, I will sit on my couch and fight ideas that let atrocities like this roll.

-John
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
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Um, Yeah, we can...

two of us are there... and you are of in lala land.

While your post makes no sense, no, you can't, but you can think you can - that's what ignorant stereotypes are abiout.

Not just any stereotypes - some are valid as stereotypes, meaning in noting traits of a group that are present on avergae more than in other groups - but ignorant stereotypes.
 

Zorkorist

Diamond Member
Apr 17, 2007
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Whatever Craig. I thought/think my post made perfect sense.

The only bashing that should be going on here is against the Ugandan Government, and their people.

It's that simple.
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
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Whatever Craig. I thought/think my post made perfect sense.

The only bashing that should be going on here is against the Ugandan Government, and their people.

It's that simple.

There's also a role for the right-wing igures who have played a role in the bigotry, and at least the Ugandan part og 'the family' who is leading the fight, as sown in Ausm's videos.
 

Zebo

Elite Member
Jul 29, 2001
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My question is what is that Fundi who wrote "pink nazis" even doing over there. He's American, and claims "they are going way too far" but is that with a wink and nudge for western consumption as he explains to Ugandan leadership behind closed doors that the 'pink nazis' will take over their country setting off hysteria for this vote? Think about it.
 

Ausm

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
25,215
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By unexceptable... I mean, out fucking rageous.

The most disturbing part is that it was condoned by GOP congressman and US religious leaders but now they are back peddling after this story broke. I hope there is a congressional investigation to see who paid for these trip...I'll give you one guess ;)
 

Robor

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
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To bad our liberal left wing nuts are able to use their freedom of speech to try and tell other people to STFU.
You keep saying it's immoral for people to disapprove of homosexuality, but those people feel homosexuality is immoral.
Morality is a personal thing. Your morality isn't the same as mine.

You can think white women marrying black guys is immoral too. It doesn't mean you're not a racist.
 

Robor

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
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If is funny to see the liberals come out of the wood work and try and take the moral high ground while throwing unborn babies and the elderly under the bus.

About as funny as conservatives who hold pro life signs while celebrating bombs being dropped on brown children in the ME. JFC you're a tool. :rolleyes: