U-MD gone the way of Mizzou

[zinfamous]

tfw biochemistry

Geologists actually make pretty good money iirc, better than the other physical sciences, very relevant field to the oil industry.

Yep. That's where you go if you want to make money as a geologist....and nowhere else. Quite the lop-sided bell curve for that discipline.

A bit like looking for the highest-paid salaries in a major at, say UNC. You would come away befuddled after discovering that "Geography" is way up there; but maybe if you, too, majored in Geography but then went on to a Hall of Fame basketball career, finishing as the greatest player of all time, you could also command that same salary as a Geogra...pher? phist?

 

[realibrad]

You have a faulty premise. Free speech is already limited for all. But also, I don't actually need a policy against the language. What I prefer is recognition that bigoted language in a hateful context is violence, and if it is met with violence, let's just remember that freedom of speech isn't freedom from someone reacting to it, it's just freedom from the state's actions against it.

You want to protect bigoted speech? Are you openly throwing around n-words? I'll guess no and also suppose you just think people should be free to say what they want. News flash: they effectively are. But the moment it leaves their brain/mouth and enters someone's ears they ought to be prepared for a response. You're watching the end of the era of people just taking it and keeping the higher ground. The low road won the presidency, so clearly the high's value showing its limits...

The reaction is what is important. If someone says something offensive, you can say something offensive back. The reaction is allowed because we have freedom of speech. What becomes illegal is when something goes beyond speech suck as physical contact.

So long as speech is the only type of violence and not an immediate threat of physical harm, the maximum response can only be more free speech. That is why its totally legal to say something racist. Its also totally legal for everyone that desires to respond with more speech to that racist person.

So, assuming your premise to be true that speech is violence, then the maximum response is more speech. Its the same reason that if someone bumps into you while walking you are not allowed to put out a gun and shoot them.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

Yep. That's where you go if you want to make money as a geologist....and nowhere else. Quite the lop-sided bell curve for that discipline.

A bit like looking for the highest-paid salaries in a major at, say UNC. You would come away befuddled after discovering that "Geography" is way up there; but maybe if you, too, majored in Geography but then went on to a Hall of Fame basketball career, finishing as the greatest player of all time, you could also command that same salary as a Geogra...pher? phist?

Obviously a guy measuring the concentrations of cykablyatium samples along some faultline somewhere in Siberia in order to make some kind of conclusion about the age of a mountain isn't going to get paid as much, but I thought enough geology people went into petroleum to put BS holders above any other physical science. Like, not all of them, but maybe around a third or more. I dunno though.

 

[pauldun170]

tfw biochemistry

Geologists actually make pretty good money iirc, better than the other physical sciences, very relevant field to the oil industry.

I've know a lot of geologist over the years.
Last time I checked, I'm married to one.

I've yet to meet one that went to work for the oil industry. That was one of those deals that everyone talked about it but no one ever went out and pursued. Same goes for the mythical "You can make so much money working insurance if your a geologist!!!"
They all went off to the exact opposite where they made shit money doing environmental consulting work or went to go give Mars rovers crap to do.
That and you had to go for your PHd if you wanted to actually wanted to be in a position to tease Biologists.

However, I'm in the NE. The whole "be a geologist and work for oil companies" might be a Red State thing.
I'm not making any big claims here.

 

[jackstar7]

The reaction is what is important. If someone says something offensive, you can say something offensive back. The reaction is allowed because we have freedom of speech. What becomes illegal is when something goes beyond speech suck as physical contact.

So long as speech is the only type of violence and not an immediate threat of physical harm, the maximum response can only be more free speech. That is why its totally legal to say something racist. Its also totally legal for everyone that desires to respond with more speech to that racist person.

So, assuming your premise to be true that speech is violence, then the maximum response is more speech. Its the same reason that if someone bumps into you while walking you are not allowed to put out a gun and shoot them.

I'm... not even sure how to respond. Do you also think soldiers with PTSD just need to "get over it" or is their non-physical damage also something that needs to be addressed? Now, if PTSD is real, is it possible that other non-physical damage can be done to someone? Is it possible that some of that can be inflicted with words?

I'm scared what you think of people who endure a childhood full of mental abuse... should they just "toughen up"?

Physical harm isn't the only kind of harm someone can do. And your strawmen are all over this place. Clean them up, and while you're at it, go read a book or ten on how the brain works.

 

[realibrad]

I'm... not even sure how to respond. Do you also think soldiers with PTSD just need to "get over it" or is their non-physical damage also something that needs to be addressed? Now, if PTSD is real, is it possible that other non-physical damage can be done to someone? Is it possible that some of that can be inflicted with words?

I'm scared what you think of people who endure a childhood full of mental abuse... should they just "toughen up"?

Physical harm isn't the only kind of harm someone can do. And your strawmen are all over this place. Clean them up, and while you're at it, go read a book or ten on how the brain works.

First, I will tell you to start at the beginning. I gave you an honest response and yet you react as if there was hostility. Perhaps simply respond to my point?

I would imagine that those with PTSD might not all like to be referred to as "damaged". Referring to them as such could be seen as insulting and as such a type of violence under your definition. That won't be my argument though.

Mental illness does not absolve one of all responsibility of actions taken by said individual. For example, if someone gets drunk often because the individual is an alcoholic, and while driving drunk kills someone, that person is not absolved of all responsibility. Certainly their illness was a factor yet they will still be held responsible.

Now, go even further. Say that same person calls a stranger a racist term when they are drunk. Would that allow the victim to respond verbally, or physically?

What if a person's mother was murdered in front of him/her by a race other than the mother or child? If that child's PTSD makes the person violently angry when that person sees someone from that race, is that person absolved from responsibility of there is physical assault?

See, the problem with your argument is that you don't see the implications. Also, PTSD is a real thing just like other mental illness. It's just that does not inherently absolve someone of responsibility.

Also note that again I have responded to you without hostility. I'm honestly trying to have a discussion.

 

[werepossum]

With globalization and outsourcing, I get to see more and more folks with STEM degrees serving my coffee.At least making big plans to "Become a teacher or something..."
The Economists, Accountants and Finance majors (Silly little precious non stem fields) who run the show discovered that all those precious little STEM majors can be had for half price overseas.

Accounting and Finance are both very practical majors. Economists too, although there are fewer jobs. Perhaps you missed that part in your righteous rage?

For one thing, Brietbart and their ilk would not have an easily-exploitable audience if more students understood the value of textual analysis and critical thinking. Far smarter and far more successful people than you and I waltz out of college with liberal arts degrees, and have for generations. These days, some of them do end up serving your coffee while plenty more find a nice gig at a hedge fund or self-employed writing novels or publishing/researching history, maybe as journalists, whatever.

But, when an audience is conditioned to assume journalists are, by default biased and possibly evil, it is easier to take a disparaging tract against such disciplines. It's a vicious circle of thought that traps your mind into never considering the reality behind your unfounded prejudices. One thing you can say collectively about the coffee servers or authors: none of them are soulless cubicle monkeys jumping from spirit-crushing job to the next, chasing pointless salary bumps and stocking their driveways with M3s every 2 years, because they have to for some reason. They are probably, in aggregate, much happier in the end.

Damned few of those unbiased journalists are happy right now. Hmm, wonder why?

Beyond that, critical thinking is the last thing taught in liberal arts classes today. Pre-held concepts - as long as they are they politically correct ones - cannot be challenged. And sure, some people succeed with liberal arts degrees - just as some succeed with none. Regardless, the sheer number of college graduates today reduces the value of a degree, except for elite schools where one's contacts are as important as the education.

I'm... not even sure how to respond. Do you also think soldiers with PTSD just need to "get over it" or is their non-physical damage also something that needs to be addressed? Now, if PTSD is real, is it possible that other non-physical damage can be done to someone? Is it possible that some of that can be inflicted with words?

I'm scared what you think of people who endure a childhood full of mental abuse... should they just "toughen up"?

Physical harm isn't the only kind of harm someone can do. And your strawmen are all over this place. Clean them up, and while you're at it, go read a book or ten on how the brain works.

You are actually defending political correctness with mental illness? Don't you understand that some people get triggered by the very things you wish to enshrine?

The sad part is that they will pay the same amount of money for that useless major as the STEM students do for their useful majors. If a college is going to offer a major in which the graduate has no realistic chance of a career (say less than 5%), they should be forced to advertise that fact on the brochure. Additionally they should adjust the cost of those majors to reflect their relative usefulness in obtaining careers. These kids are paying 40K/yr for the education. That debt has lifetime consequences if the degree is useless. I see the colleges peddling useless majors at full cost as nothing more than capitalist predators and naïve students as their prey.

Except most of those universities are not-for-profit and/or government.

We need the colleges to be responsible for the courses they offer. Perhaps some mechanism to tie number of graduates working in their fields to repayment of loans, so that colleges graduating eight times as many as can find jobs have to pay 40% (or some number) of the loans. Then universities would be pushing degrees that employers actually need.

 

[zinfamous]

Obviously a guy measuring the concentrations of cykablyatium samples along some faultline somewhere in Siberia in order to make some kind of conclusion about the age of a mountain isn't going to get paid as much, but I thought enough geology people went into petroleum to put BS holders above any other physical science. Like, not all of them, but maybe around a third or more. I dunno though.

oh yeah, I agree--I think/assume a ton of geologists go into the Oil industry. It's not the same as my geography example, only that with geology you have basically one area that offsets the average salary and with geography (at UNC), you have one individual that massively offsets that average.

 

[zinfamous]

Beyond that, critical thinking is the last thing taught in liberal arts classes today. Pre-held concepts - as long as they are they politically correct ones - cannot be challenged. And sure, some people succeed with liberal arts degrees - just as some succeed with none. Regardless, the sheer number of college graduates today reduces the value of a degree, except for elite schools where one's contacts are as important as the education.

You're not thinking critically here. You are confusing the mostly student-lead movements, along with a very small number of admins and faculty at a very small number of these universities with some grand paradigm shift throughout the University system. It simply isn't true.

Curious, when did you last go to school and when were you last within that conversation with students? I think your perceptions are based entirely within the unchallenged biases where you want them to exist. I don't ever recall being restricted from challenging thought or concepts. In these disciplines, you are taught methods and tools. Methods and tools are neutral wrg to politics. A hammer may bash a nail or a skull, but only under the orders of the hand that wields it.

I personally feel that today's student class are very different than mine of ~17-20 years ago, but I don't see it in the classroom (and I've been working at Universities since that time--pretty much outside the academic aspect, though...but often with students). I see this mentality that we all seem to hate manifesting from elsewhere, long before they got to school where, what is far more common--they encounter instructors that are constantly frustrated with a social-media empowered group of children that are inherently impervious to outside challenge of their "facebook"-buffered biases.

These are kids that have now spend their formative years picking and choosing the most self-validating opinions about themselves through social media tools that are designed to make them feel only ever special about themselves. They receive the news they want to see, only the friends and people they want to encounter. Kids are stubborn at that age, always have been.

The reality is that you have a handful of institutions proposing or trying the wrong approach to meet these kids at their level to try and break through--trigger warnings and safe spaces--but the vast majority of schools that really won't tolerate their shit.

But you just continue to pick and choose the one perspective here, as an outsider, that you want to believe. MAGA, right?

 

[bshole]

With globalization and outsourcing, I get to see more and more folks with STEM degrees serving my coffee.At least making big plans to "Become a teacher or something..."
The Economists, Accountants and Finance majors (Silly little precious non stem fields) who run the show discovered that all those precious little STEM majors can be had for half price overseas.

As can the economist, accountant and finance majors.... You do realize that the highly paid non stem fields are getting exported as well don't you? That increasingly Americans AREN'T running the show.... that accounting is shipping overseas as well. Don't know why that would make you happy but it apparently does.

Disdain STEM all you want but they are the creative people that drive civilization not a bunch of fucking paper pushers. Everything in the modern world of any value or significance owes it's existence to STEM creators. Management is simply there to monetize the most useful and creative people on the planet. Our heroes are men like Albert Einstein, who are your heroes?

 

[pauldun170]

As can the economist, accountant and finance majors.... You do realize that the highly paid non stem fields are getting exported as well don't you? That increasingly Americans AREN'T running the show.... that accounting is shipping overseas as well. Don't know why that would make you happy but it apparently does.

Disdain STEM all you want but they are the creative people that drive civilization not a bunch of fucking paper pushers. Everything in the modern world of any value or significance owes it's existence to STEM creators. Management is simply there to monetize the most useful and creative people on the planet. Our heroes are men like Albert Einstein, who are your heroes?

Easy there...
I only posted that because I was being a dick to werepossum.
It's why I haven't responded to his reply yet.

The only disdain I hold in this thread are towards people who hold a very narrow view on higher education.
Well not really disdain. More just rolling of the eyes.

 

[zinfamous]

As can the economist, accountant and finance majors.... You do realize that the highly paid non stem fields are getting exported as well don't you? That increasingly Americans AREN'T running the show.... that accounting is shipping overseas as well. Don't know why that would make you happy but it apparently does.

Disdain STEM all you want but they are the creative people that drive civilization not a bunch of fucking paper pushers. Everything in the modern world of any value or significance owes it's existence to STEM creators. Management is simply there to monetize the most useful and creative people on the planet. Our heroes are men like Albert Einstein, who are your heroes?

I would hardly call STEM the truly creative people out there. Yes, there is a ton of creativity in science and science-adjacent STEM fields (like engineering), but there is also a lot of rote discipline here that tends to be enforced at the academic level and beyond. Creativity here flourishes among the very few in this field.

The people I look up to are long-dead folks like Donatello and Michalengelo or Leonardo....I wouldn't call those guys products of a STEM-like environment, but they were the absolute best artists of their time...that happened to dabble in science and engineering because it piqued their curiosity and informed their art. Those type of minds atrophy in any STEM environment. You at least need a STEAM focus, but even that is tailored towards making robots look prettier, not really exploring aesthetics beyond pure science.

Science (and sure as shit engineering) does not explain all of reality or all of humanity. There is far, far, far more to the world than bench science and cubicle life.

 

[jackstar7]

First, I will tell you to start at the beginning. I gave you an honest response and yet you react as if there was hostility. Perhaps simply respond to my point?

I would imagine that those with PTSD might not all like to be referred to as "damaged". Referring to them as such could be seen as insulting and as such a type of violence under your definition. That won't be my argument though.

Mental illness does not absolve one of all responsibility of actions taken by said individual. For example, if someone gets drunk often because the individual is an alcoholic, and while driving drunk kills someone, that person is not absolved of all responsibility. Certainly their illness was a factor yet they will still be held responsible.

Now, go even further. Say that same person calls a stranger a racist term when they are drunk. Would that allow the victim to respond verbally, or physically?

What if a person's mother was murdered in front of him/her by a race other than the mother or child? If that child's PTSD makes the person violently angry when that person sees someone from that race, is that person absolved from responsibility of there is physical assault?

See, the problem with your argument is that you don't see the implications. Also, PTSD is a real thing just like other mental illness. It's just that does not inherently absolve someone of responsibility.

Also note that again I have responded to you without hostility. I'm honestly trying to have a discussion.

You could have saved time by just admitting your head is up your ass. And you like it there.

 

[jackstar7]

You are actually defending political correctness with mental illness? Don't you understand that some people get triggered by the very things you wish to enshrine?

I'm not defending political correctness, actually. I'm saying that if you are going to be a vile fuck and spout off violence at people, don't be shocked if there are repercussions, as their ought to be. Not all violence is physical is my only point.

 

[realibrad]

You could have saved time by just admitting your head is up your ass. And you like it there.

That is it? You are not going to explain anything about how I am wrong or why you are right? You asked me questions and I responded, and explained my position. Why even respond at all if you do not want to have a discussion?

Tell me, did you even read my entire post? I never insulted you and answered you honestly.

 

[jackstar7]

That is it? You are not going to explain anything about how I am wrong or why you are right? You asked me questions and I responded, and explained my position. Why even respond at all if you do not want to have a discussion?

Tell me, did you even read my entire post? I never insulted you and answered you honestly.

Ha! The insult was your post. Wasting my time with your drivel.

Where did I say that anyone suffering mental illness is absolved of their responsibility? Did I do that anywhere? Because your whole post seems predicated on my saying that, which I did not do.

So I stand by my assessment of your head's location and your pleasure in keeping it there.

Keep the strawmen coming though. Seems all you can manage to handle.

 

[bshole]

Science (and sure as shit engineering) does not explain all of reality or all of humanity. There is far, far, far more to the world than bench science and cubicle life.

I agree on engineering not explaining reality. That isn't the purpose of engineering. It's purpose is to create things which are useful to man.

On the other hand I contend that the scientific method is the ONLY method of explaining or knowing reality. I refuse to believe that reality can be explained or understood without evidence compiled and analyzed via the scientific method. Simply believing things about reality does not make them so.

However I have respect for your thoughts and I am interested in your POV. If science does not explain reality, what does?

 

[pauldun170]

However I have respect for your thoughts and I am interested in your POV. If science does not explain reality, what does?

I believe your interpretation of his post and your question is flawed

Science provides a framework to explain observed reality.
Science helps us chase that rabbit we want to call "Reality"

Science says "The known Universe is this big".
It does not say "The Universe is this big". It says "This what I know based on the information I have" ( insert scientific methodology and then a bunch of people in the room say "Oh yeah prove it!!!")

We are not at the point now where Science can explain everything because we are still hairless apes who masturbate to much. It took us hundreds of thousand of years to figure out that the sun was not a god's anus.
We use science to prove that the sun is not indeed a god's anus to other hairless apes.

In another 500 years we may discover that Jupiter has a candy core, made by the god that left his anus in the middle of the solar system. We may discover that new form of matter that can exist in 9 dimensions dimension at once (oh yeah, we may find evidence of 8 additional dimensions)

It's everything else that helps us think in different ways. (Insert hippy music now) Its the Arts and "humanities" job that inspires us...


screw this.
I'm tapping out.
Way too fruity for me to type out.
Going back to the F-35 thread to get my brofist ballsack vibe back.

 

[zinfamous]

I agree on engineering not explaining reality. That isn't the purpose of engineering. It's purpose is to create things which are useful to man.

On the other hand I contend that the scientific method is the ONLY method of explaining or knowing reality. I refuse to believe that reality can be explained or understood without evidence compiled and analyzed via the scientific method. Simply believing things about reality does not make them so.

However I have respect for your thoughts and I am interested in your POV. If science does not explain reality, what does?

I think there is a lot still going on in philosophy and very relevant, very interesting questions which really can't be touched with science...not now, anyway. Conscience is a weird thing and while I've no doubt we are going to make it super boring at some point by distilling it down to a cascade of predictable and controllable biochemical processes, we are far from that point.

Until then, philosophy has always been a pretty awesome, creative, and very illuminating way to address those complex questions. In nearly 3k years of practice, philosophy is still very relevant. Hell, it's how we got science!

Thing is, I'm a bit of a dummy and never did very well in my one or two philosophy classes.

Religion is interesting, too, but too much of it is basically controlled and overrun by sociopaths that think religion is truth, rather than "mystical" philosophy.

 

[werepossum]

You're not thinking critically here. You are confusing the mostly student-lead movements, along with a very small number of admins and faculty at a very small number of these universities with some grand paradigm shift throughout the University system. It simply isn't true.

Curious, when did you last go to school and when were you last within that conversation with students? I think your perceptions are based entirely within the unchallenged biases where you want them to exist. I don't ever recall being restricted from challenging thought or concepts. In these disciplines, you are taught methods and tools. Methods and tools are neutral wrg to politics. A hammer may bash a nail or a skull, but only under the orders of the hand that wields it.

I personally feel that today's student class are very different than mine of ~17-20 years ago, but I don't see it in the classroom (and I've been working at Universities since that time--pretty much outside the academic aspect, though...but often with students). I see this mentality that we all seem to hate manifesting from elsewhere, long before they got to school where, what is far more common--they encounter instructors that are constantly frustrated with a social-media empowered group of children that are inherently impervious to outside challenge of their "facebook"-buffered biases.

These are kids that have now spend their formative years picking and choosing the most self-validating opinions about themselves through social media tools that are designed to make them feel only ever special about themselves. They receive the news they want to see, only the friends and people they want to encounter. Kids are stubborn at that age, always have been.

The reality is that you have a handful of institutions proposing or trying the wrong approach to meet these kids at their level to try and break through--trigger warnings and safe spaces--but the vast majority of schools that really won't tolerate their shit.

But you just continue to pick and choose the one perspective here, as an outsider, that you want to believe. MAGA, right?

Looks to me like all those "student led movements" have some of those "very small number of admins and faculty" helping them craft their demands. Those people don't like to be on camera, but they always seem to be there.

In any rate, I haven't been in any non-engineering courses (I'm including physics and higher math here) since maybe '81. But being in engineering, it never applied to me. A circuit (or a girder or an air handler or a chemical reaction) does not give a fuck if one is triggered, or not being self-actualized, or suffering microaggressions, or suffering anxiety without one's comfort animal. It is what it is, and beautifully, it's exactly the same for everyone.

 

[zinfamous]

Looks to me like all those "student led movements" have some of those "very small number of admins and faculty" helping them craft their demands. Those people don't like to be on camera, but they always seem to be there.

In any rate, I haven't been in any non-engineering courses (I'm including physics and higher math here) since maybe '81. But being in engineering, it never applied to me. A circuit (or a girder or an air handler or a chemical reaction) does not give a fuck if one is triggered, or not being self-actualized, or suffering microaggressions, or suffering anxiety without one's comfort animal. It is what it is, and beautifully, it's exactly the same for everyone.

So, you can claim those faculty are still running the show as long as "they remain hidden" because they have to? Well, it's one way to maintain that intellectual dishonesty. You used to be better than this, my man. I've also seen examples of admins coming out against these demands from students, telling them to stfu and pound sand, or just transfer to some university that wants to continue treating them like children.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/...go-safe-spaces-letter-met-20160825-story.html

Heh, I'm actually working at UMD right now, and this thread is the only news I have seen of these demands made on the University. I haven't seen it in my inbox or in the weekly newsletter. I'll keep you guys posted, though, when the scary triggered brownskins take over the student union and the university bows down to their demands!

As for my schooling, I've never been a position to be triggered, either. I divided my time between genetics and bio classes and those evil hippy literature and writing theory classes. Lots of opportunity to be offended, if one wanted to be--we even saw disturbing images of racism and boobies and murder! in some of those film classes--but no one ever was. There are always probably a few of those in every generation, but I never encountered any. But then, myspace was barely a thing then. I dunno.

 

[realibrad]

Ha! The insult was your post. Wasting my time with your drivel.

Where did I say that anyone suffering mental illness is absolved of their responsibility? Did I do that anywhere? Because your whole post seems predicated on my saying that, which I did not do.

So I stand by my assessment of your head's location and your pleasure in keeping it there.

Keep the strawmen coming though. Seems all you can manage to handle.

Perhaps you have forgotten what you have said on this topic?

let's just remember that freedom of speech isn't freedom from someone reacting to it, it's just freedom from the state's actions against it.

That is not true. People are very much limited in how they can respond to speech. If the speech is not an immediate threat, then their only legal response can be more speech. So very much freedom of speech means people have limited legal ways they can react. You can get angry and yell at someone. You cannot threaten or physically do anything in response to free speech that is not an immediate threat in defense and or reaction.

What was your point of bringing up mental illness?

 

[agent00f]

The problem with charts like the above is that "high school graduates" include horrible students that barely graduated, and have no chance of ever being accepted into even the lowest-tier universities. Although the income gap between high school and college graduates has increased, it's more due to high school grads earning less than college grads having increased value:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/05/27/value-college-degree_n_5399573.html

(Usually I'd refer to the direct source but can't find it immediately, gives the general idea though)

Basically, it's hard to deconvolute 1) people becoming more valuable by graduating college, 2) more valuable people increasingly graduating college due to its greater availability, 3) high school grads being left behind due to changes in the global economy and surplus population to perform menial labor. All three scenarios are real depending on the individual, but there's a reason that niche liberal arts degrees are hard to find employment in, especially relative to non-STEM.



tfw biochemistry

Geologists actually make pretty good money iirc, better than the other physical sciences, very relevant field to the oil industry.

Outside of real dummy jobs, all things equal hiring managers are going to favor someone with more education over those without. That's why the good coffee shops employ their share of usually recent grads. Said education might reveal such a situation to be ruinous competition. Granted using these fancy terms in an interview is more impressive alongside a bidness degree instead of english, but generally I've found that the same talent/skillset ends up where it belongs more or less once it gets its foot in the door.

 

[jackstar7]

That is not true. People are very much limited in how they can respond to speech. If the speech is not an immediate threat, then their only legal response can be more speech. So very much freedom of speech means people have limited legal ways they can react. You can get angry and yell at someone. You cannot threaten or physically do anything in response to free speech that is not an immediate threat in defense and or reaction.

What was your point of bringing up mental illness?

Make the distinction between a threat and other kinds of speech.

Also, I didn't bring up mental illness, I brought up non-physical violence and the affects it has. Your inability to understand the distinction is no surprise to me.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

Outside of real dummy jobs, all things equal hiring managers are going to favor someone with more education over those without. That's why the good coffee shops employ their share of usually recent grads. Said education might reveal such a situation to be ruinous competition. Granted using these fancy terms in an interview is more impressive alongside a bidness degree instead of english, but generally I've found that the same talent/skillset ends up where it belongs more or less once it gets its foot in the door.

So basically students and society shoulder a $50k+ degree and four years of minimal/non-employment just so coffee house managers save a little time in hiring. Sounds sensible. Would invest in our kids' futures again.