Turkey Ataturk airport attack UPDATED

[Orignal Earl]

Sure are... the attacks against young boys and teen girls are rising astronomically:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=70PKOU-Zl3Y
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZRng9eyrjuM

Fighting in the streets... riots... shootings... running people down with their cars...

Yay for "changing our culture". :\

I just wasted minutes of my life watching your stupid rebel videos
Do you have any links to all your attacks from refugees in Canada?

 

[Jaskalas]

And let's be perfectly clear about WHAT we're talking about here.

Those Muslim countries today, are what the United States would be if the KKK had taken over and waged genocide against anyone not "them". Then became not just the dominant force - but the only ideology. Then civilized countries like Canada thought it'd be a great idea to import large segments of that population, beholden to that sort of ideology.

You'd even defend them dressing up with white sheets, under some notion of religious dress. Terror attacks start happening and you'd just wash your hands of it? "Gee, I guess that's just normal".

This isn't about if people are generically foreign or not. It's about their identity to a fundamentally dangerous ideology.

 

[Orignal Earl]

The only relatives I know who have been out of the United States would be my grandparents to fight in WW2. I'm at least 4th, or 5th generation on my mother's side... and a couple centuries on my father's side. America is my "homeland", I have no foreign origin or loyalties. Specifically not to countries that export extremism in its most vile form such as AnonymouseUser was demonstrating.

I'm a Norwegian Scottish Irish Canadian, but I'm Canadian

You going to pretend a majority of American Muslims aren't directly tied into the Middle East and influenced by its crazies? Orlando is proof positive. There's a lot more where that came from.

The Troubling Math of Muslim Migration

Ya, I think if you do the math you really don't have anything to worry about
Orlando is not proof positive of anything that I know of
I noticed when I was reading up on the Canadian Syrian refugees that we gave preference to gay Muslims.
Jesus... do you think they are more of a risk for terrorism?

 

[Orignal Earl]

And let's be perfectly clear about WHAT we're talking about here.

Those Muslim countries today, are what the United States would be if the KKK had taken over and waged genocide against anyone not "them". Then became not just the dominant force - but the only ideology. Then civilized countries like Canada thought it'd be a great idea to import large segments of that population, beholden to that sort of ideology.

You'd even defend them dressing up with white sheets, under some notion of religious dress. Terror attacks start happening and you'd just wash your hands of it? "Gee, I guess that's just normal".

This isn't about if people are generically foreign or not. It's about their identity to a fundamentally dangerous ideology.

I would defend their right to dress the way they want
I see religious people everyday dressed the way they want, it don't bother me
I have wondered more about a Hutteritte chick been coming around looks like without all her coverings on
Na, I don't think Islam is as fundamentally dangerous as some posters here make it out to be

 

[agent00f]

Are you whitewashing our history? You speak as if some egalitarian society talked their way past the evil desires of "lesser" men. No, they fought and killed other men. And you would brand the losers as some sort of "spewing crap" evil? That's rich. And how enlightened is your bigotry towards these "lesser" men?

Their moral deficiency is objectively unambiguous, like for example forming a nation with the purpose of enslaving other humans. I'm sure they had their stories about the awful negros revolting at times and killing whites, which still echos to this day in lesser form as "criminal black culture" spoken of by their descendants. Muslims and mexicans simply replaced the negros for many of them since hating directly on the latter is no longer socially acceptable.

Seems you're at least consistent in hating "lesser" men. You even apply that label to "Muslims like you". Interesting... perhaps you'd like to look in a mirror.

The moral superiority of different sides in history is not in dispute. The bigots chose to represent a past that keeps losing as society improves. They ancestors died only to be taught as a lesson of what not to do, and likely so will they. This is simply what has happened in reality and circumstances haven't changed.

Never said the barbarians didn't defeat better people, just that the society they created was, and still is, shit.

And just look at the scientific contributions of modern muslims:

Instead of trying to figure out which 12 year old to marry, they should put down the koran and pick up a science book. Do some worthwhile reading for a change. I've known 12 year old girls who were smarter than these guys.

The books tell us that the west destroyed secular governments in the middle east. Just look at iraq now, which was unequivocally america's doing. Consider the moral standing of someone with blood all over their hands blaming circumstances of the resulting chaos on the victims. Not even the nazis were that terrible.

You're right, I don't like that women are being sexually assaulted, killed, or if they're lucky only relegated to third-class status by these "progressives." I don't like that all crimes are skyrocketing, the standard of living is declining, and that nearly eradicated diseases are seeing a resurgence. I don't like isis either (though maybe I should, they are killing muslims after all), but I'm sure you have no problem with any of this because it's your "culture."

Imagine some bigot was against gays because they have aids. If you criticize them for that bigotry, their pea brain will likely response that you support aids.

Now imagine that bigot actually caused aids themselves. They would be among the worst humans ever.

That's you.

 

[agent00f]

The only relatives I know who have been out of the United States would be my grandparents to fight in WW2. I'm at least 4th, or 5th generation on my mother's side... and a couple centuries on my father's side. America is my "homeland", I have no foreign origin or loyalties. Specifically not to countries that export extremism in its most vile form such as AnonymouseUser was demonstrating.

You going to pretend a majority of American Muslims aren't directly tied into the Middle East and influenced by its crazies? Orlando is proof positive. There's a lot more where that came from.

The Troubling Math of Muslim Migration

As explained above, the west has had a virtual monopoly on murderous violence, esp of the ethnic cleansing type. Appears implied here you're not worried about white immigrants, because you're white, too.

 

[nickqt]

And let's be perfectly clear about WHAT we're talking about here.

Those Muslim countries today, are what the United States would be if the KKK had taken over and waged genocide against anyone not "them". Then became not just the dominant force - but the only ideology. Then civilized countries like Canada thought it'd be a great idea to import large segments of that population, beholden to that sort of ideology.

You'd even defend them dressing up with white sheets, under some notion of religious dress. Terror attacks start happening and you'd just wash your hands of it? "Gee, I guess that's just normal".

This isn't about if people are generically foreign or not. It's about their identity to a fundamentally dangerous ideology.

None of that has anything to do with objective, observable reality today. The US didn't devolve into a KKK theocratic shithole because a powerful secular central government eventually got around to making the KKK into a terrorist group to be prosecuted. As you say, let's be clear. The KKK based their disgusting bullshit ideology on Christianity and superiority over "Others" inherent in practicing that specific version of the religion.

Muslim countries today rarely have powerful secular governments that aren't corrupted by money, power, intelligence, and access to weapons from the lingering Cold War worldview where Dictators are OK, as long as they're our Dictators. The sign of a good ally isn't the ability to buy them out, but that they remain bought (witness Iran, our dear ally after the US helped overthrow Mossadegh, but which didn't stay bought).

For example, Saudi Arabia, an "ally", is a festering shithole. It's princes and powerful people spend money exporting a shit-tier ideology. But it isn't because the people with the money and power in Saudi Arabia are going to strap bombs to themselves, or go shoot up a mall because of unwavering belief in the ideology. It's because their regimes are so corrupt, backwards, and anachronistic that they are essentially training people to hate and demonize 'Murricans, Westerners, etc., ad nauseum. As Others. And they're told that their religion is the basis of their superiority. That they're just protecting the "rightful" culture, so extremism in defense of the rightful culture is no vice at all.

It's called Tribalism.

The shitbags create this problem (for the US/us/their people) for pennies on the dollar, and then turn around and collect billions in money, weapons, intelligence, and favor. And of course in return, elite power players and the shareholders who approve their actions here in the patron state, make all sorts of money manufacturing and selling weapons. Wall St. and the CIA (but I repeat myself) love having some shadows and basements to play around in and get muddy.

Classic patron-client relationship. Hallmark of all externally-directed Empires.

And it revolves around the ability to get people who you nominally identify with to hate outsiders. Without that, they'd be dealing with internal bullshit (which they do already, but more and more of it if not directed externally to neighboring countries ala Sunni v. Shiite, Muslim vs. Westerner, etc.). Instead, they're able to get involved in mideast politics while trying to increase their own sphere of influence.

Small investment with large financial and material rewards. Favored status with super powers. Directing internal enemies towards external targets.

Win-win-win. Sure, there's some blowback now and again, but still a pretty good investment for all the right people.

In terms of radical Islamic terrorism (I said it, do I win a prize?!?), one of the best things the US could do would be to stop supporting regimes that are suppressing their own people. But, Saudi Arabia is our shithole and foothold in the Gulf. So, we'll continue to watch US leaders skipping and holding hands with Saudi Arabian scumbags.

To put it another way, it sure seems that no matter how many bombs or drones we use, we aren't making it any better in a lot of places, and maybe, we're making it worse and playing into the "Other" role like chumps. A paradigm shift is called for, whereby the US government stops supporting the leaders of regimes that should be our natural enemies. Making a public statement that the US government will no longer support Dictators and human rights violators. And let the shit hit where it may.

I have a feeling that most of that shit will hit our former allies who lack the economic and military might to hold them back without our tacit support. Sure as shit can't be any worse than what our government does now.

Or, we can continue supporting and supplying those shitbags, dropping bombs on civilians (accidentally though, so it doesn't count as terrorism!), and shit the bed in fear of "Others" every time some deranged lunatic goes homicidal to become a celebrity before committing suicide by pledging allegiance to the biggest Boogieman that week.

 

[agent00f]

The integral & core history of muslims in the ME involves the ottoman empire, which for a period longer than the west's current dominance was the more advanced civilization.

Its fall was caused by a number of military setbacks, among the last of which was an alliance with germany for wwi. In contrast the rise of the west economically had much to do with brutal imperial colonization, which often happened to be circumstantially convenient with geography along the atlantic.

The west literally killed their way with quite some luck to the path which allows its current prosperity. History is what it is, but fortunately an increasing number of smart introspective westerners started figuring out the ethics of the situation so that it may be remedied to some extent. They're the ones that are making the west "great", not the backwards westerns trying to take credit for what they lost at.

 

[AnonymouseUser]

The west literally killed their way with quite some luck to the path which allows its current prosperity. History is what it is, but fortunately an increasing number of smart introspective westerners started figuring out the ethics of the situation so that it may be remedied to some extent. They're the ones that are making the west "great", not the backwards westerns trying to take credit for what they lost at.

The West didn't kill enough, apparently. Thankfully we have moslems in the middle east doing their part (83 killed in Iraq followed by another 100+). Thank allah someone is killing moslems, because Western civs certainly aren't killing enough. All told, over 1500 have been killed during this holy month of Ramadan, mostly moslems killing moslems. But killing the 49 non-moslem gays in Orlando, or 22 non-moslems in Bangladesh? That's the sad part. Every one of those lives were worth more than 1500 moslems.

EDIT: I can't tell if the two stories linked above are reporting the same bombing or not, but I think they are. 83/100+/167?

Your reprehensible view, so crudely expressed, is not welcome here.

Perknose
Forum Director

 

[Tequila]

The integral & core history of muslims in the ME involves the ottoman empire, which for a period longer than the west's current dominance was the more advanced civilization.

Its fall was caused by a number of military setbacks, among the last of which was an alliance with germany for wwi. In contrast the rise of the west economically had much to do with brutal imperial colonization, which often happened to be circumstantially convenient with geography along the atlantic. [/I].

Oh god lol. Shall I reword this for you? Let's try this. The rise of the Ottoman Empire had much to do with brutal imperial colonization. Sound familiar? From the sacking of Constantinople in 1453 to them almost taking Vienna in 1683 all the Ottomans did was conquer, convert and enslave Christians from the Balkans to almost Austria.

Christians and Muslims, East and West are all guilty of brutal empires that enslaved people, forced conversions and demanded tribute. This is the history of civilization. Don't try to make the Ottomans out as the good guys here just because they were advanced. If it hadn't been for my Polish ancestors who stopped the Ottoman's from taking Vienna in 1683 who knows what would have happened. Thank god for Jan Sobieski and the Winged Hussar! And that was only a turning point that stopped the Ottoman expansion, there were numerous wars after that between the Ottomans and Russia, Poland and even times when the Ottomans were aligned with western Europe to stop Russian expansion.

Humans have proved over and over that we excel at hate, warfare, enslavement, religious conversion and trying to prove one religion is better than another. Hardly a civilization is immune to it so please spare me how the West was worst bullshit.

 

[agent00f]

Oh god lol. Shall I reword this for you? Let's try this. The rise of the Ottoman Empire had much to do with brutal imperial colonization. Sound familiar? From the sacking of Constantinople in 1453 to them almost taking Vienna in 1683 all the Ottomans did was conquer, convert and enslave Christians from the Balkans to almost Austria.

Christians and Muslims, East and West are all guilty of brutal empires that enslaved people, forced conversions and demanded tribute. This is the history of civilization. Don't try to make the Ottomans out as the good guys here just because they were advanced. If it hadn't been for my Polish ancestors who stopped the Ottoman's from taking Vienna in 1683 who knows what would have happened. Thank god for Jan Sobieski and the Winged Hussar! And that was only a turning point that stopped the Ottoman expansion, there were numerous wars after that between the Ottomans and Russia, Poland and even times when the Ottomans were aligned with western Europe to stop Russian expansion.

Humans have proved over and over that we excel at hate, warfare, enslavement, religious conversion and trying to prove one religion is better than another. Hardly a civilization is immune to it so please spare me how the West was worst bullshit.

First, I was replying to sentiments above that the west are the advanced/principled guys.

Second, the west is undeniably responsible for more/worse crimes against humanity than anyone else, particularly exploiting the gap to hapless opponents around the world. If you want to discuss more specific differences, the ottomans afforded other religions state protection (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianity_in_the_Ottoman_Empire), and ironically a contributing factor to their fall was the business success of christians in the empire less hindered by islamic law. In comparison I'm sure a student of history such as yourself is aware what often happened to the less than devout in the west at the time.

 

[cubby1223]

First, I was replying to sentiments above that the west are the advanced/principled guys.

Compared to the middle east, the west are the advanced/principled guys.

Second, the west is undeniably responsible for more/worse crimes

Keep up your endless internet rage, it for sure is benefitting your life personally

 

[MajinCry]

I wouldn't say that the west is worse than the ME when it comes to sordid history. Certainly isn't any better, though.

I mean, the dark ages happened. The genocide of the Native Americans happened. The crusades happened. The Catholic Church raping children with impunity is, well, happening. WWI happened. WWII happened. The invasion of Vietnam happened. Etc., etc.,

When it comes to Islam in today's society, we're merely seeing what an Abrahamic religion is like, when it's in the prime of it's life cycle. Where Islam is today, Christianity was 500-700 years ago.

 

[cubby1223]

I wouldn't say that the west is worse than the ME when it comes to sordid history. Certainly isn't any better, though.

I mean, the dark ages happened. The genocide of the Native Americans happened. The crusades happened. The Catholic Church raping children with impunity is, well, happening. WWI happened. WWII happened. The invasion of Vietnam happened. Etc., etc.,

When it comes to Islam in today's society, we're merely seeing what an Abrahamic religion is like, when it's in the prime of it's life cycle. Where Islam is today, Christianity was 500-700 years ago.

Yea, we are living in an age of information. And in today's world, the West uses information to advance civility. The Middle East uses these times to keep festering in their ass-backwards ways.

That's the bottom line. All you are doing is making excuses for poor civilizations of today to continue being shitty. The choice is yours of how you want to view the world, and under who's authority you want to live.

 

[Blue_Max]

I mean, the dark ages happened. The genocide of the Native Americans happened. The crusades happened. The Catholic Church raping children with impunity is, well, happening.

All dwarfed by islam. Dwarfed. You're actively choosing to completely ignore what's really happening, over 1400 years AND today. The raping of little boys alone is insanely greater in islam because it's condoned and called good.
http://www.well.com/~aquarius/Qurannotes.htm
http://vladtepesblog.com/2011/08/12/western-complicity-in-the-rape-of-boys-in-the-islamic-world/

Anyone who's served in the middle east will describe the COMMON boy-rape going on there. Everywhere.

And the death tolls simply have no comparison. None.

Where Islam is today, Christianity was 500-700 years ago.

Um..... no. Judaism 2500 years ago maaaaaybe.

Your pandering to the islamic faith means nothing to them unless you actually convert - until then, you're still a filthy kafir.

 

[MajinCry]

-snip-

You really are hellbent with yer belligerence. Maybe read what I typed, rather than what you think I typed? I even said right frae the get go:

I wouldn't say that the west is worse than the ME when it comes to sordid history. Certainly isn't any better, though.

And if ya think the west is a land o' roses 'n' posies, ya should read up what happened to the Native Americans, as a fine example of moral superiority. From murder and rape, to genocide and sex slavery. Lotta innocent fun that was, eh?

If you're going to keep on thinkin' that lads are trying to just poo-poo away the horrors being perpetrated by the ME, ain't nothing that can change yer mind. But ya should know that's not what anybody's done on this 'ere thread.

 

[cubby1223]

You really are hellbent with yer belligerence. Maybe read what I typed, rather than what you think I typed? I even said right frae the get go:


And if ya think the west is a land o' roses 'n' posies, ya should read up what happened to the Native Americans, as a fine example of moral superiority. From murder and rape, to genocide and sex slavery. Lotta innocent fun that was, eh?

If you're going to keep on thinkin' that lads are trying to just poo-poo away the horrors being perpetrated by the ME, ain't nothing that can change yer mind. But ya should know that's not what anybody's done on this 'ere thread.

Problem you have in your feeble attempt at an argument is none of the people living today had anything to do with what happened hundreds of years in the past. What happened hundreds of years ago is fact that cannot be changed. What happens tomorrow is not yet written and can be changed. So let's look at an example where the two regions are currently at:

- The West is fighting whether transgendered should be forced to use the bathrooms of their birth gender.
- The Middle East is fighting whether transgendered should have their lives terminated for not being of their birth gender.

The comparison is not even remotely close. Educate yourself, and for the love of humanity, grow the fuck up.

 

[MajinCry]

We were comparin' the religions 'n' their actions, me laddie. The reason why Christianity is in a better sort, is 'cause it got much of the bloodlust out of it's system; it's had a 700 year head start o'er Islam, after all.

 

[Jaskalas]

Na, I don't think Islam is as fundamentally dangerous as some posters here make it out to be

And Saudi Wahhabism?

There are clearly segments that are dangerous, as those earlier photos demonstrated.
In the past 60 years nations have devolved from modern civilization to slavish hellholes. That disease of violence and regression is not contained, and is spreading. The infection point is via those who originate from and are thus indoctrinated into spreading such ideology.
Recent terror attacks demonstrate how this infection has spread globally.

There must be an effort to contain and combat the ideology.

 

[Jaskalas]

We were comparin' the religions 'n' their actions, me laddie. The reason why Christianity is in a better sort, is 'cause it got much of the bloodlust out of it's system; it's had a 700 year head start o'er Islam, after all.

We held the better land, which in turn meant bigger, meaner tribes. The biggest tribes smashed the smaller tribes and formed Kingdoms. Such large territories of lush green land created larger and more stable economies. As the markets grew, so did the wealth of men outside the King. "Soon" the Lords overtook the King and formed Democracies for the people.

Modern communication may have damaged that process, for now a Tyrant can centralize wealth and control over any vast area. Lords are expendable, and cannot overcome their tyrant. The people try to rebel... but don't have an educated, wealthy network of benefactors to hold the nations together. They revert back to baser tribes.

The western world needs to stand for peace and stability above all else, including Democratic values. We need a slower and more cautious approach to implementing change in other nations. A cultural and economical approach, not a military one. Those nations need strong leaders, and we need strong incentive programs to enrich them for enriching their people.

Turkey is a prime example of ground zero. They've fallen to Tyranny with extremism knocking at the door. That is our test for whether western civilization can ever win this great war... this clash of civilizations. You really don't want to witness the "other side" overtaking our culture.

 

[Orignal Earl]

And Saudi Wahhabism?

There are clearly segments that are dangerous, as those earlier photos demonstrated.
In the past 60 years nations have devolved from modern civilization to slavish hellholes. That disease of violence and regression is not contained, and is spreading. The infection point is via those who originate from and are thus indoctrinated into spreading such ideology.
Recent terror attacks demonstrate how this infection has spread globally.

There must be an effort to contain and combat the ideology.

Wahhabism should be looked at, even though there is less then 5 million followers it's connected to most terror groups
When SA and the US started spreading this little branch of extremism back in the '80's is when the shit started to build
Islam is followed a lot of different ways, you can't judge it by one of it's most extreme branches

 

[Blue_Max]

Islam is followed a lot of different ways, you can't judge it by one of it's most extreme branches

...but you can certainly criticize its SOURCE; the 'holy' scriptures and its big prophet who give the instructions for its devout to follow.

Are those examples and instructions good or bad? Someone from the outside is capable of analyzing such by who/how many it helps or hurts. Someone who's been force-fed the dogma from before they could speak will be unlikely to consider the matter objectively - especially when one of the big doctrines is 'never question the prophet, scripture, or leaders -- the punishment is severe.'

 

[Orignal Earl]

Someone from the outside is capable of analyzing such by who/how many it helps or hurts.

Some people are capable, some are not

 

[Victorian Gray]

Scary Muslim Iranians (in Iran even). Be terrified.

 

[Blue_Max]

Scary Muslim Iranians (in Iran even). Be terrified.

If I showed you pictures of non-violent, smiling, nice WHITE people - would you stop blaming the world's problems on them?

Doubtful... goes against the progressive agenda. Remember, your support means nothing unless you actually convert.