Tunisia unrest spreading? Unrest in Egypt

[poohbear]

I don't see how you can say this with polling data like this:

Personally, I would consider anyone who thinks apostates and adulterers should be killed and thief maimed for life a fundamentalist and if they are acting on it they are an extremist. Take your pick 80% of Egypt's Muslims are fundamentalist or extremist.

The you have leading candidate such as ElBaradei, a former head of the UN International Atomic Energy Agency, who recently joined the Muslim Brotherhood classified as a terror org and certainly is fundamentalist if you disagree with terror description.

What is you evidence to suggest Egypt would be a secular peaceful democratic regime?

i have no clue where u got that poll, but its absolute insolence to suggest the current secular dictatorship is better (because it serves the USA) than having the people rise up, regarless of how different their views are from you, and put in their own government. The Shah of Iran was a puppet of the USA, and the government that replaced him was vehementaly Anti American! Do you not learn from history???? USA continues to prop up these ruthless dictators, and then the people rise up and are anti-american, and you blame, of all things, their religion!!!

Greece was vehementaly anti american throughout the 60's & 70s because of American support for their oligarchy of miliatary dictators, and they are not muslim. Read history, notice patterns, and get a clue.

Turkey has a muslim government and they're actually PRO west! the Turkish secular nationalists are NOT pro west because they refuse to even touch on the subject of Armenian genocide, so how can you have this absurd & ultra simplistic idea that if the government is pro muslim, they'll be anti western? Saudi Arabia's monarchy is religoulsy muslim, and yet they do whatever the US wants, so i dont see how having a muslim government is gonna hinder efforts by the US in the middle east.

U have to realize the ENTIRE Middle East is predominantly muslim, even Lebanon which used to be half christian, so this absurd expectation NOT to have a muslim inclined party leading a predominantly Muslim country is ridiculous, and it WILL happen whether u like it or not. When that happens, and it WILL happen one day 9there's only so long you can oppress a people before they rise up), if the US is always seen as supporting the ruthless secular dictator that is suppressing these uprisings, u will get more and more Iran-like governments popping up (Iran is NOT anti-USA because its Muslim, its anti-USA because the US supported the shah of Iran and was seen as the enemy alont with Britain, who also supported the Shah). It would be in the interests of the US if they supported these uprisings by the people so the resulting government remembers it! not so they remember that the US was funding the very government they were rising up against.

U'd think all this is self-evident, but it baffles me how some people think (or dont think). if you're supporting the man beating the crap out of me, and me and my friends rise up and take him out, do you think i'll have a favorable view of you? It wont matter what my race, religion, or sex is, you WILL be the object of my anger.

 

[bfdd]

I'm all for these countries people up rising and establishing the form of government they want. That doesn't mean I have to like it or that we should just accept it. If they want to play nice with the world as a whole then sure, if not then we have problems.

 

[LumbergTech]

I'm all for these countries people up rising and establishing the form of government they want. That doesn't mean I have to like it or that we should just accept it. If they want to play nice with the world as a whole then sure, if not then we have problems.

I agree, but some of the comments in here make me sick to my stomach. Give the people a chance to do what they think is right.. If they choose to do terrible shit with that freedom then someone may or may not step in, but at least let their fate be of their own choosing.

 

[Zebo]

i have no clue where u got that poll, but its absolute insolence to suggest the current secular dictatorship is better (because it serves the USA) than having the people rise up, regarless of how different their views are from you, and put in their own government. The Shah of Iran was a puppet of the USA, and the government that replaced him was vehementaly Anti American! Do you not learn from history???? USA continues to prop up these ruthless dictators, and then the people rise up and are anti-american, and you blame, of all things, their religion!!!

Greece was vehementaly anti american throughout the 60's & 70s because of American support for their oligarchy of miliatary dictators, and they are not muslim. Read history, notice patterns, and get a clue.

Turkey has a muslim government and they're actually PRO west! the Turkish secular nationalists are NOT pro west because they refuse to even touch on the subject of Armenian genocide, so how can you have this absurd & ultra simplistic idea that if the government is pro muslim, they'll be anti western? Saudi Arabia's monarchy is religoulsy muslim, and yet they do whatever the US wants, so i dont see how having a muslim government is gonna hinder efforts by the US in the middle east.

U have to realize the ENTIRE Middle East is predominantly muslim, even Lebanon which used to be half christian, so this absurd expectation NOT to have a muslim inclined party leading a predominantly Muslim country is ridiculous, and it WILL happen whether u like it or not. When that happens, and it WILL happen one day 9there's only so long you can oppress a people before they rise up), if the US is always seen as supporting the ruthless secular dictator that is suppressing these uprisings, u will get more and more Iran-like governments popping up (Iran is NOT anti-USA because its Muslim, its anti-USA because the US supported the shah of Iran and was seen as the enemy alont with Britain, who also supported the Shah). It would be in the interests of the US if they supported these uprisings by the people so the resulting government remembers it! not so they remember that the US was funding the very government they were rising up against.

U'd think all this is self-evident, but it baffles me how some people think (or dont think). if you're supporting the man beating the crap out of me, and me and my friends rise up and take him out, do you think i'll have a favorable view of you? It wont matter what my race, religion, or sex is, you WILL be the object of my anger.

I got it from here. http://pewglobal.org/files/2010/12/Pew-Global-Attitudes-Muslim-Report-FINAL-December-2-2010.pdf

Sorry views are important. They determine how world is shaped. I'd prefer they are shaped how I was indoctrinated (secular democratic) rather than how muslim world was indoctrinated (see poll). Politics, Violence and war and subsequent victors sets the tone. I understand both view points though it's all how we were indoctrinated. If I were born in Egypt I'd prolly want world wide Sharia, like polling indicates.

Anyway the Caliphate won the east and even much of Europe by organized violence. Likewise the West won the world after that the by the same organized violence. You can't stop it it's just the way of things. It's human nature to fight like eating.

Of course we in the West are going to support people in line with our national interests democratic or not to move our world view forward.

 

[Skyclad1uhm1]

Watch live feed from Cairo here:
http://english.aljazeera.net/watch_now/

 

[Skyclad1uhm1]

There are reports of police taking off uniforms and joining the protesters, wounded policemen being helped by protesters and vice versa, imagines of an armored car moving away from the protesters it was firing teargas at, instead of trying to push them back, Mubarak's son and his family have left the country, and the movement is indeed nationwide. This was unorganized, so eventhough one opposition leader is now hospitalized with a headwound and another one locked up this has no effect on the protests.

 

[yllus]

A correspondent of Human Rights Watch has stated that in Alexandria, the police have laid down arms. Al Jazeera has a live stream online here.

Also:

Egypt Leaves the Internet

Confirming what a few have reported this evening: in an action unprecedented in Internet history, the Egyptian government appears to have ordered service providers to shut down all international connections to the Internet. Critical European-Asian fiber-optic routes through Egypt appear to be unaffected for now. But every Egyptian provider, every business, bank, Internet cafe, website, school, embassy, and government office that relied on the big four Egyptian ISPs for their Internet connectivity is now cut off from the rest of the world. Link Egypt, Vodafone/Raya, Telecom Egypt, Etisalat Misr, and all their customers and partners are, for the moment, off the air.

At 22:34 UTC (00:34am local time), Renesys observed the virtually simultaneous withdrawal of all routes to Egyptian networks in the Internet's global routing table. Approximately 3,500 individual BGP routes were withdrawn, leaving no valid paths by which the rest of the world could continue to exchange Internet traffic with Egypt's service providers. Virtually all of Egypt's Internet addresses are now unreachable, worldwide.

This is a completely different situation from the modest Internet manipulation that took place in Tunisia, where specific routes were blocked, or Iran, where the Internet stayed up in a rate-limited form designed to make Internet connectivity painfully slow. The Egyptian government's actions tonight have essentially wiped their country from the global map.

 

[Zebo]

 

[Zedtom]

In the United States when there was civil unrest in the cities during the 1960's, the television was labeled a "riot box". The liberal sociologists accused it of presenting unrealistic images of the good life and advertising products beyond the means of the urban poor.

The internet is the new "riot box" in developing countries.

 

[Narmer]

I don't see how you can say this with polling data like this:

Personally, I would consider anyone who thinks apostates and adulterers should be killed and thief maimed for life a fundamentalist and if they are acting on it they are an extremist. Take your pick 80% of Egypt's Muslims are fundamentalist or extremist.

The you have leading candidate such as ElBaradei, a former head of the UN International Atomic Energy Agency, who recently joined the Muslim Brotherhood classified as a terror org and certainly is fundamentalist if you disagree with terror description.

What is you evidence to suggest Egypt would be a secular peaceful democratic regime?

Well, that's just your opinion and it doesn't mount to much considering you know little about Egypt.

 

[Narmer]

There are reports of police taking off uniforms and joining the protesters, wounded policemen being helped by protesters and vice versa, imagines of an armored car moving away from the protesters it was firing teargas at, instead of trying to push them back, Mubarak's son and his family have left the country, and the movement is indeed nationwide. This was unorganized, so eventhough one opposition leader is now hospitalized with a headwound and another one locked up this has no effect on the protests.

Yeah, you know the regime is in trouble when they bring out the army, their last defense.

 

[alphatarget1]

Does this mean the military stuff we've been selling to Egypt will end up in a radical government's hands? haha

 

[Jaskalas]

I am curious, who takes over now?

 

[Zebo]

Does this mean the military stuff we've been selling to Egypt will end up in a radical government's hands? haha

Pretty much but it's all neutered. Like Abrams have no depleted uranium armor, jet electronics all neutered. In other words just enough to control their people that's about it.

 

[feralkid]

I am curious, who takes over now?

Let's pray it's not Al-Ikhwān.

 

[feralkid]

Pretty much but it's all nurtured. Like Abrams have no depleted uranium armor, jet electronics all nurtured. In other words just enough to control their people that's about it.

Nurtured?

 

[Zebo]

Well, that's just your opinion and it doesn't mount to much considering you know little about Egypt.

My opinion? I put facts up with links to support majority of Egyptians are fundis. Again what is your evidence to suggest Egypt would be a secular peaceful democratic regime?

 

[Zebo]

Nurtured?

lol spell check does funny things.

 

[dfuze]

Nurtured?

I think he means neutered :hmm:

 

[malG]

Doesn't matter who will take over, the 84 million people of Egypt will crush Israel.

No wonder the USA strongly supports Hosni Mubarak, the dictator of Egypt.


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[Wreckem]

I do not recall hearing any outcry in the press about elections being rigged for Egypt. I will agree that the government there is heavy handed to those that oppose it in protests.

Having a hostile Egypt to Israel does not really bother me. Egypt has the military capacity to defend itself from neighbors. Nor do I think that any regime even not friendly to Israel, would want to poke Israel. They have seen what can happen and the loss of face and military would create a upset in the government. I do not think that it has the capacity to travel the length of the Sinai to attack Israel effectively without beign detected and/or another preemptive attack as in '67.

If a country wants to be hostile to another, let it. If a country wants to support attacks against another; then the consequences must be faced.

Israel and Syria for example. Cats hissing in the dark and not much else.
Israel and Lebanon - poke the tiger and get mauled. When the tigetr gets loose, it was poked and retaliated.

Some people do not seem to understand that concept!

When an "election" forbids anyone to run against you, is it really an election?

Eygpt doesn't have presidential elections. They have "referendums". Eygpt's lower house chooses gets to choose who gets to be president, because it gets to choose who runs. No one that is a credible threat is allowed to run. The last person allowed to run was thrown in prison, tortured, and released.

Eygpt's government is highly corrupt. Those protesting right now, want more freedoms, not less. These are akin the the protests in Iran. They dont want to be oppressed.

 

[Pneumothorax]

Let's welcome the next Islamic Republic: Egypt!

I really don't think Islamic countries with a few exceptions, can ever have a secular democracy. It's against their religion!

 

[poohbear]

Let's pray it's not Al-Ikhwān.

oooooooooooohhh "al-ikhwan", u think it sounds more sinister because you're saying the arabic translation? so lame.

Anyways i'm glad an uprising is finally taking place, it proves all those right wing wingnuts that say the middle east is not a culture for democracy are wrong! Uprisings are human nature, doesnt matter if u're muslim, christian or buddhist. If ure oppressed long enough people WILL rise up.

Let's welcome the next Islamic Republic: Egypt!

I really don't think Islamic countries with a few exceptions, can ever have a secular democracy. It's against their religion!

with "few exceptions"? so what is it can they or cant they???? oh wait u dont have a clue right? what do u know about their religion???? if u told someone a 1000 years ago that European Christian monarchs would one day have to have democratic parliaments they'd laugh at ur face. Thank goodness for the divorce of christianity and government!

 

[Patranus]

So now we know how dictators use an internet kill switch.

So does anyone still want to give Obama and the feds this power?

 

[Patranus]

Doesn't matter who will take over, the 84 million people of Egypt will crush Israel.

No wonder the USA strongly supports Hosni Mubarak, the dictator of Egypt.

Because it worked out so well for Egypt last time.
(Hint: It only took 6 days for Israel to beat down Egypt)