Trump wins Iowa - is anyone surprised?

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JTsyo

Lifer
Nov 18, 2007
11,737
890
126
The EC and Senate are gerrymanders written into the Constitution. The purpose was to protect slavery. The slavers lost a few years back so it is well past time to jettison both the EC and the Senate.
The EC was more so due to transportation back then and the logistics of a nationwide election. There was also the hope the EC would serve as protection against someone unqualified that was a demagogue. Both points are now void.
 

Greenman

Lifer
Oct 15, 1999
20,459
5,208
136
If we end political gerrymandering a large part of the EC problem will self correct.

No, gerrymandering in its current form was not part of the design.

The problems with the EC was foreseen even before. Bush v Gore and was predicted then the negative outcome. We also need to expand the House and Senate to reflect today’s population. No way a state with a population of 300K should have the same representation as 12M

What you are advocating for is apartheid.
What I'm advocating is a constitutional republic, as opposed to mob rule. I like our system, I like the way it works, I like a reasonably stable government.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,247
48,439
136
What I'm advocating is a constitutional republic, as opposed to mob rule. I like our system, I like the way it works, I like a reasonably stable government.
The electoral college and the senate have literally zero to do with if we are a republic or not.

I get the feeling people don’t understand what a republic is. All it means is that we elect representatives to vote on legislation instead of voting directly. If we abolished the senate and electoral college tomorrow we would still be every bit as much of a republic as we are today.
 

eelw

Diamond Member
Dec 4, 1999
9,135
4,427
136
Greenies defense of the EC is probably his desperate clinging on to 2A. Right if EC gets abolished, 2A won’t be far behind.
 
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fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,247
48,439
136
This I believe.
Yeah, I wish more people would just say 'I like the electoral college because it delivers my preferred candidate more often than a direct election would'.

There's no need to invent all sorts of obviously false rationales for it - you like it because Republicans have only won the popular vote once since 1992 and you don't want to change policies to appeal to more voters!
 

MrSquished

Lifer
Jan 14, 2013
21,484
19,903
136
And what will happen is that Greenman will ignore any facts and reality and just use words purposely wrong, not understanding what they mean at all, just use them in ways to continue his highly biased and regressive existence - because at the end of the day he always has been and always will be a pathological liar who thinks they are very moderate and very unbiased. These people are a big part of the problem, just like MAGA.
 

Drach

Golden Member
Apr 24, 2022
1,065
1,692
106
Why would anyone be surprised with this lopsided demographic.


Race and Hispanic Origin
White alone, percent
89.8%
Black or African American alone, percent(a)
4.4%
American Indian and Alaska Native alone, percent(a)
0.6%
Asian alone, percent(a)
2.8%
Native Hawaiian and Other Pacific Islander alone, percent(a)
0.2%
Two or More Races, percent
2.2%
Hispanic or Latino, percent(b)
6.9%
White alone, not Hispanic or Latino, percent
83.7%
 

Drach

Golden Member
Apr 24, 2022
1,065
1,692
106
Nov 17, 2019
11,007
6,584
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Isn't NV the one that has both a Primary and a caucus, but only the Primary winner counts? Has it been decided if a caucus winner will appear on the general election ballot?
 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
46,285
33,564
136
It was primarily created to protect slavery but that was a hoped for side effect, yes.

It is impressive how people can extoll the virtues of the EC almost entirely incorrectly and at the same time ignore the core purpose of the mechanism. Some are just wrong and the others are liars for political reasons.
 
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dank69

Lifer
Oct 6, 2009
35,421
28,865
136
Has anyone mentioned Trump saying "Four more years and beyond"?
Fact checkers say he was talking about keeping Iowa first in the caucus/primary season.

Also, to make sure everyone understands the full context of these results:
61PENJk.jpeg
 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
46,285
33,564
136
Exit polls also said that nearly a third would not vote for trump if he’s convicted.

So even if we assume this is really like 15% these are the hardest core conservative voters available. Bigger turnout drops in the urban areas relative to the rest of the state also signals the same problem: that the GOP is going to struggle with Trump at the top of the ticket with mild R voters in the suburbs or worse they have just lost a lot of those voters entirely.
 

JD50

Lifer
Sep 4, 2005
11,650
2,056
126
What I'm advocating is a constitutional republic, as opposed to mob rule. I like our system, I like the way it works, I like a reasonably stable government.
No one is suggesting we get rid of the President or voting for representatives, where do you come up with this stuff? Not a single state uses an electoral college type system to vote for Governor, are all 50 states run by mob rule?
 
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fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,247
48,439
136
It is impressive how people can extoll the virtues of the EC almost entirely incorrectly and at the same time ignore the core purpose of the mechanism. Some are just wrong and the others are liars for political reasons.
Yes it's weird that @Greenman is arguing eliminating the EC would make small states irrelevant when they are not only currently irrelevant but the elimination of the EC would actually make them far MORE relevant!

Everyone ignores Mississippi today because it's a solid red state. If the popular vote were what counted though there would be incentives for candidates to court the public there. What he's really saying is he prefers a situation where his state is ignored but Republicans win the presidency more than a situation where candidates might actually care about his state.
 
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K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
46,285
33,564
136
He's already been convicted of sexual abuse.

Or at least 'found liable', which is essentially the same.

A criminal conviction for 1/6 related activities is going to carry a lot more political weight with the people who need swaying than a civil loss.
 
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