Trump White House cancels NASA's Carbon Monitoring System.

[Doc Savage Fan]

Unfortunately it's not about saving money for Space exploration, the program itself is only 10 million its because it an Obama era program. NASA since it inception has played a vital role in the Earth Sciences. Remember those amazing Landsat photos back in the 70s. Also if they wanted to really save money for space exploration the need to cut the bloated billion dollar SLS program a rocket that currently has no payload or destination.

SLS represents the future of space exploration. No payload? Wrong. No destination? Wrong. The SLS rocket is needed for the planned Moon mission in 2023 and future deep-space exploration missions as well.

 

[Amused]

When you are going to lose a fight consisting of facts and logic, one way to "win" is to get rid of the facts. Then only faith remains.

As someone said, this is simply that Obama did it. If Obama had instituted a comprehensive program for dumping toxic waste in rivers, the EPA would now be coming out with a stronger Clean Waters act.

I'm an Independent, and this anti-science turn of the GOP is ensuring I vote across the board (D) for the future. I don't agree with all the Democrats do, but they don't appear to be trying to bring us back to the 19th century at least. Hopefully the rest of the world can pick up the slack until we can restore sanity here.

I really don't have anything to add. This just needs to be repeated.

 

[K1052]

SLS represents the future of space exploration. No payload? Wrong. No destination? Wrong. The SLS rocket is needed for the planned Moon mission in 2023 and future deep-space exploration missions as well.

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[[DHT]Osiris]

SLS represents the future of space exploration. No payload? Wrong. No destination? Wrong. The SLS rocket is needed for the planned Moon mission in 2023 and future deep-space exploration missions as well.

The SLS may never be built, at least in timeframes where it matters. There's a very high probability that it'll get canned and NASA will simply use the BFR for Moon/Mars missions by the time we get around to actually building something to send there.

EDIT: Oh, and halting these carbon monitoring systems without an equivalent (or better) one, is asinine. I suspect it's because it was an Obama-era program that focuses on the human-related effects of climate change.

 

[hal2kilo]

The SLS may never be built, at least in timeframes where it matters. There's a very high probability that it'll get canned and NASA will simply use the BFR for Moon/Mars missions by the time we get around to actually building something to send there.

EDIT: Oh, and halting these carbon monitoring systems without an equivalent (or better) one, is asinine. I suspect it's because it was an Obama-era program that focuses on the human-related effects of climate change.

Hoping the days of the big fat contractors ebbs (LM). Yea other people are making rockets better and cheaper now.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

Hoping the days of the big fat contractors ebbs (LM). Yea other people are making rockets better and cheaper now.

It will, the dinosaurs are getting priced out extremely quickly, and some constituents are going to start having some very hard questions for congress if they keep funding a vehicle that's 90-110% of the performance of what's available commercially for 500% of the cost.

 

[dphantom]

Environmental monitoring is a multi country task. We do it now with weather and climate

Europe is multi country.

 

[dphantom]

What?! This makes my head hurt.

Based on this logic, if the euros have police officers to monitor crime we can get rid of all of ours.

Logical inconsistency. Europe does not police our country. CO2 is a well mixed gas (supposedly) so duplicate efforts are not needed.

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

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After a little reading...I agree. They need to shit-can SLS immediately and use those resources elsewhere..

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

After a little reading...I agree. They need to shit-can SLS immediately and use those resources elsewhere..

To be fair, it'd be nice to know the BFR won't dynamite on the launch pad 10x in a row. I suspect Musk won't let that happen though. But yeah, SLS is just grotesquely expensive per kg compared to what the BFR's looking at.

 

[Jaskalas]

Hopefully they can use the money saved for Space exploration instead.

NASA has a science division. You take issue with them studying our planet?

 

[Darwin333]

Hopefully they can use the money saved for Space exploration instead.

The money saved would be like pissing in the ocean for our human space exploration program.

Don't get me wrong, I am all about NASA and think it's pathetic that we can't even send astronauts to the space station that we largely funded and instead hitch rides with the Ruskies. I have repeatedly called for a clean doubling of NASA's budget which compared to our overall budget would be negligible. Instead of roughly half a penny of our tax dollar it would be a whole penny but we don't really care about science in this country anymore and haven't for a while.

We used to be at the forefront of particle science. That's why if you look at the periodic table of elements you see elements with names like Americium, Berkelium, and Californium. We were constructing a new particle accelerator, the Superconducting Super Collider, that would have been 5 times more powerful than the Large Hadron Collider, that would have kept us at the forefront of particle physics and allowed us to do science that went beyond the great stuff that CERN is/has done. We even had 15 miles of tunnel already bored out and then we said "nah, fuck that smancy fancy sciency bullshit" and canceled it. The Large Hadron Collider got built, all of the best and brightest in the field have moved to Europe and our reign as the leaders in particle physics came to an end. The last shuttle, our only way to send humans in low Earth orbit (boldly going where hundreds have gone before), flew in 2011 and the maiden launch of our next human-rated rocket won't be until at least 2020. We aren't scheduled to send humans into space on it until 2022 so probably 2024ish, in the meantime a private company with zero experience designing, building or launching rockets has successfully flown their heavy lift vehicle, recovered 2 of 3 cores by propulsively landing them vertically back at the launch site, and may very well have the BFR human flying and human-rated before the SLS. Oh yeah, the BFR will lift more to space. A private company that until relatively recently had zero knowledge or experience in space flight shouldn't be kicking the everliving shit out of NASA's ass when it comes to rockets nor should we have to depend on a private company for rockets so that isn't what I am arguing. Hell China currently has a manned space program and will have 4 more manned missions before even our best case scenario next manned mission.

Like I said, our nation has largely said fuck all that cutting-edge science stuff and the rest of the world is passing us by. It is an absolute travesty but we largely don't really give a shit.

 

[Darwin333]

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While I for one can't wait for the BFR to fly I really don't think that NASA should get out of the business of designing, building and launching rockets. Maybe we should start giving SpaceX the contracts to do those things though. Obviously that would never fly (pun intended) since the big players like Lockheed bribe donate so much money to our politicians but I can dream.

 

[Darwin333]

After a little reading...I agree. They need to shit-can SLS immediately and use those resources elsewhere..

That's one of our problems when we try to do big things. We spend a metric fuckload of money on them, get halfway there and then cancel it in favor of some other big thing. Then we cancel that after spending a metric fuckload of money and the vicious cycle repeats.

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

NASA has a science division. You take issue with them studying our planet?

Nope. But I definitely prefer they spend that vast majority of their resources on space exploration and travel.

 

[K1052]

While I for one can't wait for the BFR to fly I really don't think that NASA should get out of the business of designing, building and launching rockets. Maybe we should start giving SpaceX the contracts to do those things though. Obviously that would never fly (pun intended) since the big players like Lockheed bribe donate so much money to our politicians but I can dream.

SpaceX already has NASA contracts, USAF now too.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

That's one of our problems when we try to do big things. We spend a metric fuckload of money on them, get halfway there and then cancel it in favor of some other big thing. Then we cancel that after spending a metric fuckload of money and the vicious cycle repeats.

I don't think that anyone was taking SpaceX seriously when they began (seriously) designing the SLS, so I can't really fault them on that. I can't really fault them on continuing progress until the BFR is man-rated either, since they cannot guarantee it'll be successful. If they continue funding it after that point though, I'm going to have a problem with it.

I really don't think that NASA should get out of the business of designing, building and launching rockets.

Building the buses is a little old-hat at this point, given that we're seeing multiple companies on the forefront of it at this time. I'd rather NASA put millions on space probes, new engine designs (to then be utilized by those companies), and plan projects for interstellar vehicle designs, some material science advances, maybe some new energy generation or advanced radiation/particle shielding techniques.

Seriously, building rockets is about the worst thing for NASA to be doing, given the nature of a vehicle with a million parts and the propensity of Congresscritters to mandate they get their slice of the pie, rather than actually build something efficiently.

 

[Thebobo]

SLS represents the future of space exploration. No payload? Wrong. No destination? Wrong. The SLS rocket is needed for the planned Moon mission in 2023 and future deep-space exploration missions as well.

I would be willing to bet that SpaceX's BFG is carrying payload before the SLS ever gets off a launch. In this case I would love to be wrong.

 

[Darwin333]

SpaceX already has NASA contracts, USAF now too.

Contracts to send stuff on SpaceX rockets, yes. I was talking about building and maybe even helping in the design phase of their actual rockets since they can obviously do it far cheaper than their current contractors. I'm sure meeting NASA's specifications will be more expensive than what they are currently doing but they have to be able to build to their needs for a hellofa lot cheaper than they are currently paying, especially if they are allowed to help in the design phase which I'm pretty sure companies like Lockheed are allowed, even encouraged, to do.

 

[BUTCH1]

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None is yet built and you can LOL at SpaceX's planned development timetable. The Falcon heavy was years late, when you create monster rockets you deal with a lot of issues you don't expect. That being said, I was able to see the Heavy fly and I was impressed, BFR is much, much bigger than any previous rocket, 4X the lifting capability of the Saturn V. Do I think it will succeed?, yes, but at a much later date than expected.

 

[Darwin333]

I don't think that anyone was taking SpaceX seriously when they began (seriously) designing the SLS, so I can't really fault them on that. I can't really fault them on continuing progress until the BFR is man-rated either, since they cannot guarantee it'll be successful. If they continue funding it after that point though, I'm going to have a problem with it.

Oh I don't disagree one bit concerning the start of SLS, no way could they have thought about involving SpaceX. I was just making a general statement about the insane cost NASA pays to design and build a new vehicle versus what SpaceX has now proven they can design, build and launch vehicles, including a heavy launch vehicle, for. All of this coming from a company that not long ago, relatively, had zero knowledge or experience in designing or building rockets.

Building the buses is a little old-hat at this point, given that we're seeing multiple companies on the forefront of it at this time. I'd rather NASA put millions on space probes, new engine designs (to then be utilized by those companies), and plan projects for interstellar vehicle designs, some material science advances, maybe some new energy generation or advanced radiation/particle shielding techniques.

Seriously, building rockets is about the worst thing for NASA to be doing, given the nature of a vehicle with a million parts and the propensity of Congresscritters to mandate they get their slice of the pie, rather than actually build something efficiently.

You do make a bunch of good points, especially the part about Congresscritters requiring their piece of the pie built in their districts which is one of the big reasons that costs are so high. I never really considered how much more science they could do if they stopped building vehicles which is a hellofa lot more.

 

[darkswordsman17]

Regardless of the science, such a move is one of hundreds / thousands of such cuts Trump is making throughout the government. His policy is hack and slash on small items, while inflating the deficit on tax cuts and big ticket items.

Yep. And this is why I've been saying it will take decades to undo the damage this assclown and his cronies have already done. They're cutting out things from the inside, and then working to sabotage the government in big ways. And they're doing it as ticking time bombs so that they'll be gone and hoping it'll blow up on the Democrats (like how they tried to have happen with the similar shit done under Bush; they want the Democrats to have to deal with it, knowing that people are idiots and will blame them). The modern conservative politicians seem to want a return to the "company store" days.

 

[darkswordsman17]

Are people really this stupid.

Have you been listening to basically any of the conservatives on here?

 

[Darwin333]

None is yet built and you can LOL at SpaceX's planned development timetable. The Falcon heavy was years late, when you create monster rockets you deal with a lot of issues you don't expect. That being said, I was able to see the Heavy fly and I was impressed, BFR is much, much bigger than any previous rocket, 4X the lifting capability of the Saturn V. Do I think it will succeed?, yes, but at a much later date than expected.

The BFR will only be able to lift 20,000 more pounds to LEO (310K lb versus 330K lb), I'm not sure where you are getting a 4X more lifting capacity. I really wish that was the case but it isn't.

And after seeing what they did with the Falcon Heavy I am not going to bet against them and it isn't like big government programs are known for keeping their schedules.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

You do make a bunch of good points, especially the part about Congresscritters requiring their piece of the pie built in their districts which is one of the big reasons that costs are so high. I never really considered how much more science they could do if they stopped building vehicles which is a hellofa lot more.

One of my favorite little historical tidbits to show how unwilling we actually are to commit to science, and how hamstrung we are by our past:
http://www.astrodigital.org/space/stshorse.html