Trump dissolved a working JCPOA. How much blame should Trump get for Israel and Iraq being at war?

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How much blame should be assigned to Trump for this war?

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HomerJS

HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
38,414
31,366
136
Israel claims they are trying to stop Iraq's weapons grade enrichment program so they don't get a weapon. According to the IAEA and world governing bodies we had a working Iraq nuclear deal when Obama left office that Trump killed in his first term.

How much blame should be assigned for the current conflict?
 
P

Pontius Dilate

Member
Mar 28, 2008
160
265
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I gave Trump 40%. 20% for blowing up the JCPOA and 20% for being such an easily manipulated demented narcissist idiot that he is happy to be Bibi's little sock puppet. 60% goes to Bibi and the rest of the criminals in the Israeli government for kicking this off.
 
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BonzaiDuck

BonzaiDuck

Lifer
Jun 30, 2004
16,258
1,838
126
Pontius Dilate said:
I gave Trump 40%. 20% for blowing up the JCPOA and 20% for being such an easily manipulated demented narcissist idiot that he is happy to be Bibi's little sock puppet. 60% goes to Bibi and the rest of the criminals in the Israeli government for kicking this off.
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I think it was fair to blame him 100%, since a working agreement with Iran was in place when Obama left office.

Once again, just thinking about these things, I want to go out in public despite today's 100F heat, find a Trump supporter and deliver a round-house smack in his/her face with 5 year's reconstructive surgery. Trump inspires political violence in thought as well as in deed.
 
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Pontius Dilate

Member
Mar 28, 2008
160
265
136
BonzaiDuck said:
I think it was fair to blame him 100%, since a working agreement with Iran was in place when Obama left office.

Once again, just thinking about these things, I want to go out in public despite today's 100F heat, find a Trump supporter and deliver a round-house smack in his/her face with 5 year's reconstructive surgery. Trump inspires political violence in thought as well as in deed.
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Totally respect that and can agree. I think I'm operating under the assumption that even if Trump had not managed to undo the agreement for whatever reason, Bibi would still have found a way to kick this off and bring Trump along.
 
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HomerJS

HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
38,414
31,366
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Pontius Dilate said:
Totally respect that and can agree. I think I'm operating under the assumption that even if Trump had not managed to undo the agreement for whatever reason, Bibi would still have found a way to kick this off and bring Trump along.
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That why I score it 50%. Bibi gets the other half
 
ivwshane

ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
33,300
16,638
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Pontius Dilate said:
Totally respect that and can agree. I think I'm operating under the assumption that even if Trump had not managed to undo the agreement for whatever reason, Bibi would still have found a way to kick this off and bring Trump along.
Click to expand...

It certainly looks like bibi manipulated Trump into destroying the agreement, which would give cover/pretext for Israel to attack Iran.

I put 100% of the blame on Israel unless an independent body can verify Israel’s claim.
 
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HomerJS

HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
38,414
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Think about this, we are about to enter a war where...

Trump ended a working JCPOA to spite Obama
Bibi since the 90s said Iran was "weeks' from a nuclear bomb. He has said this almost 10 times to date.
Trump said he is ignoring his own DNI where she said Iran is no where close to a bomb
Trump is about to make a decision to enter our troops into war using foreign intelligence that could be a lie.

I'm changing my blame vote to 60%
 
Last edited:
Heartbreaker

Heartbreaker

Diamond Member
Apr 3, 2006
5,002
6,573
136
While Trump is a major world problem, in this case, he doesn't really seems to be much of a factor. With Trump Israel is less likely to face any US sanctions, but IMO they would have gone ahead regardless, because this Iran campaign has been planned for years, and the precursor work has been done.

Israel was never party to party to JCPOA, and didn't consider itself bound by, so it's kind of irrelevant.

Israel has been teeing this one up for a couple of years. The main visible actions were 2022-24 (Biden years).

Israel worked on dismantling Hezbollah, and wiping out most of their leaders and capability, and now Iran can't easily resupply/rebuild them through Syria.

Assad regime falling was a windfall gift to Israel that ended them as an Iran ally, and supply line for Hezbollah, and Israel also obliterated their military capability during the chaos and aftermath, just in case.

This means with two Iran allies/Proxies in their back yard crushed, Israel can focus on Iran. In hindsight the campaigns against Syria's and Hezbollah's capability is now clear.

With all the prelude work done, and what could be a unique window of opportunity, IMO they would have gone ahead even with Kamala Harris in the Whitehouse threatening sanctions, and JCPOA supported.

IMO, this is a major campaign aimed at doing serious damage to Iran regime, and taking out their military capability, along with degrading nuclear aspirations.
 
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HomerJS

HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
38,414
31,366
136
Heartbreaker said:
While Trump is a major world problem, in this case, he doesn't really seems to be much of a factor. With Trump Israel is less likely to face any US sanctions, but IMO they would have gone ahead regardless, because this Iran campaign has been planned for years, and the precursor work has been done.

Israel was never party to party to JCPOA, and didn't consider itself bound by, so it's kind of irrelevant.

Israel has been teeing this one up for a couple of years. The main visible actions were 2022-24 (Biden years).

Israel worked on dismantling Hezbollah, and wiping out most of their leaders and capability, and now Iran can't easily resupply/rebuild them through Syria.

Assad regime falling was a windfall gift to Israel that ended them as an Iran ally, and supply line for Hezbollah, and Israel also obliterated their military capability during the chaos and aftermath, just in case.

This means with two Iran allies/Proxies in their back yard crushed, Israel can focus on Iran. In hindsight the campaigns against Syria's and Hezbollah's capability is now clear.

With all the prelude work done, and what could be a unique window of opportunity, IMO they would have gone ahead even with Kamala Harris in the Whitehouse threatening sanctions, and JCPOA supported.

IMO, this is a major campaign aimed at doing serious damage to Iran regime, and taking out their military capability, along with degrading nuclear aspirations.
Click to expand...
So you believe Bibi THIS TIME when he says Iran is weeks away from a bomb?
 
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B

brycejones

Lifer
Oct 18, 2005
29,283
29,587
136
Heartbreaker said:
While Trump is a major world problem, in this case, he doesn't really seems to be much of a factor. With Trump Israel is less likely to face any US sanctions, but IMO they would have gone ahead regardless, because this Iran campaign has been planned for years, and the precursor work has been done.

Israel was never party to party to JCPOA, and didn't consider itself bound by, so it's kind of irrelevant.

Israel has been teeing this one up for a couple of years. The main visible actions were 2022-24 (Biden years).

Israel worked on dismantling Hezbollah, and wiping out most of their leaders and capability, and now Iran can't easily resupply/rebuild them through Syria.

Assad regime falling was a windfall gift to Israel that ended them as an Iran ally, and supply line for Hezbollah, and Israel also obliterated their military capability during the chaos and aftermath, just in case.

This means with two Iran allies/Proxies in their back yard crushed, Israel can focus on Iran. In hindsight the campaigns against Syria's and Hezbollah's capability is now clear.

With all the prelude work done, and what could be a unique window of opportunity, IMO they would have gone ahead even with Kamala Harris in the Whitehouse threatening sanctions, and JCPOA supported.

IMO, this is a major campaign aimed at doing serious damage to Iran regime, and taking out their military capability, along with degrading nuclear aspirations.
Click to expand...
You really misspelled:

Bibi needs to distract from his criminal cases and failure to obtain the return of all the hostages from Gaza.
 
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Jaskalas

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
35,285
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HomerJS said:
Do you you think our military should enter the war just on the word of Israel?
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Even if Iran had no intent before, they sure as hell do after Israel's attack.
For anyone wanting to stop nuclear proliferation, there is only one step forward.
For anyone who does not care, there are still plenty of options.
 
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Sonikku

Sonikku

Lifer
Jun 23, 2005
15,878
4,869
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Jaskalas said:
Even if Iran had no intent before, they sure as hell do after Israel's attack.
For anyone wanting to stop nuclear proliferation, there is only one step forward.
For anyone who does not care, there are still plenty of options.
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What brilliant logic. They weren't working one before, so lets attack them. So they have reason to work on one. So we can war with them...
 
cytg111

cytg111

Lifer
Mar 17, 2008
25,483
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136
Muse

Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
40,288
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136
Pontius Dilate said:
I gave Trump 40%. 20% for blowing up the JCPOA and 20% for being such an easily manipulated demented narcissist idiot that he is happy to be Bibi's little sock puppet. 60% goes to Bibi and the rest of the criminals in the Israeli government for kicking this off.
Click to expand...
So, Iran's working to gather enough fissionable U to make an atomic bomb gets 0%?
 
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IronWing

IronWing

No Lifer
Jul 20, 2001
72,246
32,666
136
Muse said:
So, Iran's working to gather enough fissionable U to make an atomic bomb gets 0%?
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Yes. Given Iran's belligerent neighbors and America's incessant saber rattling, Iran would be negligent to not develop nuclear weapons.
 
Jaskalas

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
35,285
9,481
136
Sonikku said:
What brilliant logic. They weren't working one before, so lets attack them. So they have reason to work on one. So we can war with them...
Click to expand...
Yes, Israel has backed us into a corner.
OTOH, Trump started that last time by breaking the international deal with Iran.
This time around Israel smelled a sucker in Trump. But also, the no-win scenario where Iran has no choice but to go nuclear.

So we ARE left with worse choices. Destroy Iran, or watch Israel force nuclear war.
 
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