Trump administration seen as more truthful than news media

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PokerGuy

Lifer
Jul 2, 2005
13,650
201
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cbrunny said:
2 things. First, this:

There is a weighting associated with age, but that does not necessarily correct the issue, especially in a sample of only 617.

Second, you can't make up data for cases that didn't respond, even with weighting. Weighting a small sample like this is a terrible idea as well.

I have a Masters degree in Political Science, specializing in Public Opinion & Polling. This poll is not complete garbage, but it is absolutely not proof of anything.
Click to expand...

Did you get your degree from Trump University perhaps?? ;)

Apparently you also think Gallup is full of crap then, because their polls came to fairly similar conclusions?
 
C

cbrunny

Diamond Member
Oct 12, 2007
6,791
406
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PokerGuy said:
Did you get your degree from Trump University perhaps?? ;)

Apparently you also think Gallup is full of crap then, because their polls came to fairly similar conclusions?
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Nope. Mine is from a great University. So are my other two degrees. Didn't read the gallup data, but I'd take a look if you link it.
 
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woolfe9998

woolfe9998

Lifer
Apr 8, 2013
16,242
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PokerGuy said:
I don't believe that's true. I think the media has changed fundamentally. The internet has come along and given everyone a nice little echo chamber to help polarize views. At the same time, fox news came along and showed that you can get waaaaaay better ratings by appealing directly to political perspective rather than just "reporting the news". Most of the media always had a lefty bias to some extent, but now many have just gone all out without even the pretense of being unbiased. As things get more polarized, a lot of the media has decided to choose sides rather than report the news.
Click to expand...

We're probably never going to agree about the media's biases, but the polarization of American culture, where right has moved right and left has moved left, is undeniable. It's also pretty hard to argue against the notion that the facts usually rest somewhere in between these extremes that we seem to be running toward. Accordingly, a news media which basically reports the facts will be increasingly distrusted by people because what it reports will not line up with what people want to believe, and both sides will increasingly conclude that the media has a political bias against their side.

The fact that more conservatives believe this than liberals is an expected and predictable consequences of the data (i.e. DW Nominate) which documents this polarization trend, whereby both left and right move further apart but the right is moving faster than the left. If the left ever manages to catch up, then we'll be at a point where 90% of each side thinks the media is biased, but for totally opposite, and logically inconsistent, reasons. At that point, sanity will be a thing of the past and we'll have a lot more to worry about than our disagreements about media bias.

A lot of it also has to do with the internet. Mainstream news media now competes will all kinds of dishonest garbage for the attention of readers and viewers. Much of this garbage is in the form of railing against the media itself, which it directly competes with. This has undoubtedly further eroded people's trust in the media.

Lastly, I will remind you that what people say about the media's credibility has nothing to do with its actual credibility. Polls measure perception, not reality.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_populum
 
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pauldun170

pauldun170

Diamond Member
Sep 26, 2011
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I'd be interested in seeing who the hell picks up the phone and takes part in these surveys.
Caller ID is a beautiful thing...
 
M

Mxylplyx

Diamond Member
Mar 21, 2007
4,197
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Conservative media has spent the better part of two decades now programming their audience to distrust any media outside the conservative bubble, so their mistrust is just a given. The credibility of the media among liberals has taken a major hit recently, at least in my own opinion, not because of a lack of truthfulness on the part of the mainstream media, but because they kept Trump in the game for far too long due to his ratings bonanza. The false equivalency they peddled between Clinton's emails and Trump was beyond the pale, and is the reason he got elected. They held Trump to his own standard, while holding Clinton to a presidential standard, and now we have Trump in the white house because of it.
 
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PokerGuy

Lifer
Jul 2, 2005
13,650
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cbrunny said:
Nope. Mine is from a great University. So are my other two degrees. Didn't read the gallup data, but I'd take a look if you link it.
Click to expand...

This is from September 2016, but if I remember correctly the trend was unmistakable, trust in media was cratering even then, and that was before the major election cycle cast media trust in an even worse light, and before Trump outright called CNN fake news etc. There's no reason to believe trust in the media got any better since this Gallup poll.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/195542/americans-trust-mass-media-sinks-new-low.aspx

I'm no expert in polling methodology, but I find it hard to believe that any significant college or organization would completely botch a poll and tarnish their reputation by doing something so blatant (including only landlines). Either way, I've made no statements about the accuracy of the poll, I just presented the news item.
 
imported_tajmahal

imported_tajmahal

Lifer
Jul 9, 2009
10,759
2,086
136
Mxylplyx said:
Conservative media has spent the better part of two decades now programming their audience to distrust any media outside the conservative bubble, so their mistrust is just a given. The credibility of the media among liberals has taken a major hit recently, at least in my own opinion, not because of a lack of truthfulness on the part of the mainstream media, but because they kept Trump in the game for far too long due to his ratings bonanza. The false equivalency they peddled between Clinton's emails and Trump was beyond the pale, and is the reason he got elected. They held Trump to his own standard, while holding Clinton to a presidential standard, and now we have Trump in the white house because of it.
Click to expand...
http://www.gallup.com/poll/195542/americans-trust-mass-media-sinks-new-low.aspx
If you check the numbers you'll see that only 8% of Americans have "a great deal" of trust in the media. The "fair amount" number is 24%. The media earned those numbers and they deserve those numbers.
 
P

PokerGuy

Lifer
Jul 2, 2005
13,650
201
101
Mxylplyx said:
Conservative media has spent the better part of two decades now programming their audience to distrust any media outside the conservative bubble, so their mistrust is just a given.
Click to expand...

You can spew that drivel all you like, but the media itself has driven the distrust. You can only lie so many times before people realize you're not to be trusted.
 
P

PokerGuy

Lifer
Jul 2, 2005
13,650
201
101
woolfe9998 said:
We're probably never going to agree about the media's biases, but the polarization of American culture, where right has moved right and left has moved left, is undeniable. It's also pretty hard to argue against the notion that the facts usually rest somewhere in between these extremes that we seem to be running toward. Accordingly, a news media which basically reports the facts will be increasingly distrusted by people because what it reports will not line up with what people want to believe, and both sides will increasingly conclude that the media has a political bias against their side.

The fact that more conservatives believe this than liberals is an expected and predictable consequences of the data (i.e. DW Nominate) which documents this polarization trend, whereby both left and right move further apart but the right is moving faster than the left. If the left ever manages to catch up, then we'll be at a point where 90% of each side thinks the media is biased, but for totally opposite, and logically inconsistent, reasons. At that point, sanity will be a thing of the past and we'll have a lot more to worry about than our disagreements about media bias.
Click to expand...

I don't disagree with that, but you're still starting with the assumption that the media hasn't changed, that it's just the public that has changed. I don't buy that. The media has adapted to their new environment like any business does. Straight reporting the news simply isn't as profitable these days as driving the news and a narrative. I don't know how you'd say the public has changed but conclude that the media hasn't adapted with the public.

Lastly, I will remind you that what people say about the media's credibility has nothing to do with its actual credibility. Polls measure perception, not reality.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_populum
Click to expand...

Remember that we're talking about trust in the media. Trust is based on perception. In this case, perception is reality, like it or not.
 
pauldun170

pauldun170

Diamond Member
Sep 26, 2011
9,559
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MongGrel said:
People that still own landlines, of course.
Click to expand...

We still have a landline and majority of our friends and acquaintances still have landlines.
General consensus has been "don't know the number...don't pick up" for quite some time.
 
zinfamous

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
111,992
31,551
146
PokerGuy said:
Yeah, because I'm sure they would promote slavish devotion and belief in the media no matter how biased and no matter how often they are caught lying and pushing one political perspective /s
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damn, son. You really are quite stupid, aren't you?

You do understand that it is pretty much on you to be able to figure out when you are being lied to, right?
 
MongGrel

MongGrel

Lifer
Dec 3, 2013
38,466
3,067
121
pauldun170 said:
We still have a landline and majority of our friends and acquaintances still have landlines.
General consensus has been "don't know the number...don't pick up" for quite some time.
Click to expand...

*shrug*

I'm an old guy and dumped mine 20 years ago and don't have a smart phone, but ok :)
 
woolfe9998

woolfe9998

Lifer
Apr 8, 2013
16,242
14,245
136
PokerGuy said:
I don't disagree with that, but you're still starting with the assumption that the media hasn't changed, that it's just the public that has changed. I don't buy that. The media has adapted to their new environment like any business does. Straight reporting the news simply isn't as profitable these days as driving the news and a narrative. I don't know how you'd say the public has changed but conclude that the media hasn't adapted with the public.



Remember that we're talking about trust in the media. Trust is based on perception. In this case, perception is reality, like it or not.
Click to expand...

I agree with this to a point. The media is a corporate business, and as such, it will adapt to cultural change to the extent that such change affects its business model. The emergence of Fox News is an example of this trend. It plays to an audience of conservatives who have convinced themselves that the rest of the media is against them, and so long as it remains the only game in town for conservative biased mainstream network media, it will do well with that model.

It used to be that the news branches of major networks were to some extent given a pass and allowed to lose a little money, on the theory that the news component brought some prestige to the network. However, with so much competition right now, first from the emergence of cable news then the internet, news media is hemorrhaging and they have to compensate by being increasingly sensationalistic. What they're not doing is compensating by being increasingly liberal, because this approach limits their market. Fox can get away with this by being the only game in town, but there is too much competition in main stream news media for it to make sense for any of them to play to only a left leaning audience.

I know you think the media's coverage of Trump shows a liberal bias, but Trump is a walking controversy. He's been a huge ratings boon for all the news media. If you don't want to see so much negative coverage of a republican candidate, then don't nominate a vain reality TV star with a penchant for lying and offending all sorts of people. If you choose to nominate that sort of candidate, then expect the news media to cover the ensuing controversies quite gleefully. It was nowhere near this when Romney ran in 2012 and the news media certainly hasn't changed much in just 4 years.
 
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