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Trump Admin Suspending Global Entry Program for NY residents for Dubious Reasons

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Jhhnn

No Lifer
Nov 11, 1999
57,970
10,360
126
NY should have thought through the implications of falling out of compliance
More dishonesty. It's all based on a lie. DHS doesn't want to verify applicants for expedited entry but rather to access the entire database as an immigration enforcement tool. I'm confident that NYS can assume individuals have waived their rights when the feds make a request for confirmation about any one of them. They already surrendered their info to the feds. Which isn't what the Admin wants at all.
 

Starbuck1975

Lifer
Jan 6, 2005
12,840
1,358
126
More dishonesty. It's all based on a lie. DHS doesn't want to verify applicants for expedited entry but rather to access the entire database as an immigration enforcement tool. I'm confident that NYS can assume individuals have waived their rights when the feds make a request for confirmation about any one of them. They already surrendered their info to the feds. Which isn't what the Admin wants at all.
Poorly devised laws lead to unintended consequences.
 

Starbuck1975

Lifer
Jan 6, 2005
12,840
1,358
126
You mean poorly thought out actions by DHS, right? Or really in this case, deliberately vindictive ones.

The Trump administrations poor governance is their fault and no one else's.
DHS has a job to do. You may disagree with the scope and urgency, but they rely on close coordination and data sharing with local authorities. New York made a sovereign decision. They are responsible.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
66,636
14,113
136
DHS has a job to do. You may disagree with the scope and urgency, but they rely on close coordination and data sharing with local authorities. New York made a sovereign decision. They are responsible.
I think DHS is useless but that doesn’t make them not responsible for their actions.
 

Jhhnn

No Lifer
Nov 11, 1999
57,970
10,360
126
DHS has a job to do. You may disagree with the scope and urgency, but they rely on close coordination and data sharing with local authorities. New York made a sovereign decision. They are responsible.
Yet this decision from the admin attempts to deny them that sovereignty. As I said, which you refuse to address, is that it's built on a lie, like wanting the citizenship question on the census. What DHS wants is to have all those records instantly available for whatever purpose they desire, apparently to terrorize undocumented people in NYS who had the temerity to get a driver's license when it was offered. Can't have that. Can't have states coming to terms their own way with large undocumented populations the Feds let into the country in the first place. Better to work it as a wedge issue.
 
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brycejones

Lifer
Oct 18, 2005
17,077
6,898
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From what I have read, NY State is restricting access to the drivers license database so CBP cannot verify eligibility into the Trusted Traveler program. Without that access, even if one has a valid passport, CBP cannot complete its required background check for that person.
And again, this is bullshit. You can get into the program WITHOUT having a DL at all.
 

Starbuck1975

Lifer
Jan 6, 2005
12,840
1,358
126
Yet this decision from the admin attempts to deny them that sovereignty.
No it doesn’t. The federal government didn’t stop them from passing the law. The federal government is asserting its authority over federally managed programs. The state of NY doesn’t get to decide who crosses American borders.

As I said, which you refuse to address, is that it's built on a lie, like wanting the citizenship question on the census.
It’s built on jurisdiction.

What DHS wants is to have all those records instantly available for whatever purpose they desire, apparently to terrorize undocumented people in NYS who had the temerity to get a driver's license when it was offered. Can't have that. Can't have states coming to terms their own way with large undocumented populations the Feds let into the country in the first place. Better to work it as a wedge issue.
Because Cuomo isn’t pushing this to demonstrate his resistance bona fides.
 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
50,434
3,914
126
Meh, New York will take them to court and Trump will lose yet again.
Until it gets to the SCOTUS or Trump just ignores an unfavorable verdict. The rule of law and checks and balances are null and void until at least January
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
66,636
14,113
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This all does remind me of yet another reason why the electoral college is a terrible idea. Trump only feels comfortable retaliating against states like New York and California because he knows he has no chance of winning them in the election. If the presidency were decided by national popular vote he would never engage in this sort of petty bullshit.
 

Jhhnn

No Lifer
Nov 11, 1999
57,970
10,360
126
No it doesn’t. The federal government didn’t stop them from passing the law. The federal government is asserting its authority over federally managed programs. The state of NY doesn’t get to decide who crosses American borders.

It’s built on jurisdiction.

Because Cuomo isn’t pushing this to demonstrate his resistance bona fides.
NYS has not usurped federal power to control the border. The opposite has occurred. The Feds usurp the right of NYS to issue driver's licenses at their own discretion. As has been pointed out, a person doesn't need a driver's license at all to gain expedited entry status, anyway. Nor is it just Cuomo but rather the legislature as well.

Of course it's built on a lie. It's the Trump admin way of punishing New Yorkers for their state issuing licenses to undocumented people. It means they can be covered by auto liability insurance, just for starters. It clarifies how cops deal with them in traffic situations, as well. It's part of coming to terms with that thing Trumpsters reject vehemently, reality itself. It's perfectly clear that the Feds will not be deporting 11M people anytime RSN so some other constructive ways of dealing with them must be found. Or we can lie about it, like the Trump admin, so as to use it as a perpetual wedge issue. I mean, some problems are best left unsolved for electoral propaganda purposes, right?
 
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Starbuck1975

Lifer
Jan 6, 2005
12,840
1,358
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NYS has not usurped federal power to control the border. The opposite has occurred. The Feds usurp the right of NYS to issue driver's licenses at their own discretion. As has been pointed out, a person doesn't need a driver's license at all to gain expedited entry status, anyway. Nor is it just Cuomo but rather the legislature as well.

Of course it's built on a lie. It's the Trump admin way of punishing New Yorkers for their state issuing licenses to undocumented people. It means they can be covered by auto liability insurance, just for starters. It clarifies how cops deal with them in traffic situations, as well. It's part of coming to terms with that thing Trumpsters reject vehemently, reality itself. It's perfectly clear that the Feds will not be deporting 11M people anytime RSN so some other constructive ways of dealing with them must be found. Or we can lie about it, like the Trump admin, so as to use it as a perpetual wedge issue. I mean, some problems are best left unsolved for electoral propaganda purposes, right?
New York can still issue driver’s licenses. Those state licenses are now no longer an acceptable form of identification for a federal entry program. New York chose to extend their licenses to undocumented people. Those licenses, and the databases behind them, now have other implications.

Immigration is a perpetual wedge issues because both parties find it useful.
 

Jhhnn

No Lifer
Nov 11, 1999
57,970
10,360
126
New York can still issue driver’s licenses. Those state licenses are now no longer an acceptable form of identification for a federal entry program. New York chose to extend their licenses to undocumented people. Those licenses, and the databases behind them, now have other implications.

Immigration is a perpetual wedge issues because both parties find it useful.
Immigration is a useful issue for the GOP, one too good for them to solve. Xenophobia & outright racism rule the base, and Stephen Miller runs the show. Trump panders to that sentiment quite shamelessly. It's the whole point of the exercise.
 
Dec 10, 2005
19,929
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New York can still issue driver’s licenses. Those state licenses are now no longer an acceptable form of identification for a federal entry program. New York chose to extend their licenses to undocumented people. Those licenses, and the databases behind them, now have other implications.

Immigration is a perpetual wedge issues because both parties find it useful.
Except what you're missing here is you don't need a DL to enter the program. The Federal government is collectively punishing the state because it's a blue state that doesn't like Trump or his policies.
 
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Starbuck1975

Lifer
Jan 6, 2005
12,840
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Except what you're missing here is you don't need a DL to enter the program. The Federal government is collectively punishing the state because it's a blue state that doesn't like Trump or his policies.
No, the federal government is asserting its authority over a program that requires access to information for verification purposes. The DL is just one aspect of it.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
66,636
14,113
136
No, the federal government is asserting its authority over a program that requires access to information for verification purposes. The DL is just one aspect of it.
But since you don’t need to have any records with the DMV at all to participate in the program it is clear that access to DMV records is unnecessary to administer it.

Actions have consequences and now DHS is going to face them in court. They will similarly face legal action for their efforts to stop the sale of cars.

Conservatives should be very, very careful with the unintended consequences of their choices here as they depend far more on the federal government than liberal states do. If they start arbitrarily attacking states they don’t like with the feds they may find themselves very, very sorry one day when it is their turn. New York doesn’t need the federal government - Mississippi desperately does.
 
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pauldun170

Diamond Member
Sep 26, 2011
6,035
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I wonder why The trump administration, after receiving a blank check from the Senate trial is specifically targeting New York?


It's amazing that some posters are so damn dense that they can't see the damn forest for the trees. It's stupidity like that which allows the GOP and Trump to get away with their PR campaigns.
This thread can probably be merged with that payback thread.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
66,636
14,113
136
I wonder why The trump administration, after receiving a blank check from the Senate trial is specifically targeting New York?


It's amazing that some posters are so damn dense that they can't see the damn forest for the trees. It's stupidity like that which allows the GOP and Trump to get away with their PR campaigns.
This thread can probably be merged with that payback thread.
What I think is weird is how credulous conservatives still are with statements by the administration. They lie about literally everything and yet after 15,000 lies time 15,001 conservatives seem to think ‘well this time I’m sure they are playing it straight’.
 

Starbuck1975

Lifer
Jan 6, 2005
12,840
1,358
126
But since you don’t need to have any records with the DMV at all to participate in the program it is clear that access to DMV records is unnecessary to administer it.
DHS has stated otherwise

Actions have consequences and now DHS is going to face them in court. They will similarly face legal action for their efforts to stop the sale of cars.
Verified chain of custody is part of export.

Conservatives should be very, very careful with the unintended consequences of their choices here as they depend far more on the federal government than liberal states do. If they start arbitrarily attacking states they don’t like with the feds they may find themselves very, very sorry one day when it is their turn. New York doesn’t need the federal government - Mississippi desperately does.
Cuomo and the NY state legislature’s TDS and insistence on playing resistance is not going tp hold in the courts.
Mississippi is setting DHS policy? This is just the incessant whining of liberals paying federal taxes for the programs they created and advocated for.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
66,636
14,113
136
DHS has stated otherwise
lol. See my other post. The people who constantly lie said something. Who cares? They lie constantly.

Verified chain of custody is part of export.
Singling out one state is arbitrary and capricious. The courts don’t take kindly to that. Like I said, actions have consequences. For example had Ohio passed an identical law Trump would have done nothing and anyone with common sense knows it.

Cuomo and the NY state legislature’s TDS and insistence on playing resistance is not going tp hold in the courts.
Mississippi is setting DHS policy? This is just the incessant whining of liberals paying federal taxes for the programs they created and advocated for.
Lol of course it will.

What I’m trying to warn you guys about ahead of time is that conservative areas depend on the federal government a lot more than liberal areas do. Once you start playing games where you use the federal government to attack states who do things you don’t like you’re entering an area of asymmetric warfare and you will not like the result.

So I think you guys should take a step back and think about the consequences of your actions. Just how badly do you want to piss off the hand that feeds you?
 
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Starbuck1975

Lifer
Jan 6, 2005
12,840
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lol. See my other post. The people who constantly lie said something. Who cares? They lie constantly.
So you’re asking me to choose between the liars in Washington versus the liars in Albany?


Singling out one state is arbitrary and capricious. The courts don’t take kindly to that. Like I said, actions have consequences. For example had Ohio passed an identical law Trump would have done nothing and anyone with common sense knows it.
That is pure speculation. The only known is that NY passed the law that set this outcome in motion.

What I’m trying to warn you guys about ahead of time is that conservative areas depend on the federal government a lot more than liberal areas do. Once you start playing games where you use the federal government to attack states who do things you don’t like you’re entering an area of asymmetric warfare and you will not like the result.
That precedence is already set. The federal government is acting in response to a poor decision by a blue state, same as how Democrat administrations has smacked down red states for similarly stepping out of line.

This isn’t asymmetrical. It’s the federal government asserting its authority.

So I think you guys should take a step back and think about the consequences of your actions. Just how badly do you want to piss off the hand that feeds you?
I don’t need the government to feed me. What are you going to cut off exactly? Social security? Health care? Good luck with that.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
66,636
14,113
136
So you’re asking me to choose between the liars in Washington versus the liars in Albany?
No need to choose really, anyone with a brain knows that whenever the Trump administration disagrees with literally anyone else you believe the other party until proven otherwise.


That is pure speculation. The only known is that NY passed the law that set this outcome in motion.
Then why aren’t other states with similar laws being targeted?

That precedence is already set. The federal government is acting in response to a poor decision by a blue state, same as how Democrat administrations has smacked down red states for similarly stepping out of line.

This isn’t asymmetrical. It’s the federal government asserting its authority.

I don’t need the government to feed me. What are you going to cut off exactly? Social security? Health care? Good luck with that.
Don’t say we didn’t try to warn you. You guys really should have considered the consequences of your actions before trying to force the repeal of common sense laws through targeted federal attacks on political opponents.
 
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