Tropes vs. Women Author Driven From Home

[jruchko]

 

[thedosbox]

As we can't link to the original, here's kotaku's story:

http://kotaku.com/over-600-game-creators-call-for-an-end-to-hateful-har-1629371868

We believe that everyone, no matter what gender, sexual orientation, ethnicity, or religion has the right to play games, criticize games and make games without getting harassed or threatened. It is the diversity of our community that allows games to flourish.

Long list, but there are names from Ubisoft, EA, Blizzard, Infinity Ward, Rockstar, Bungie, Volition & DICE in there. I guess that's a few more studios the haters can stop buying games from.

 

[jruchko]

As we can't link to the original, here's kotaku's story:

http://kotaku.com/over-600-game-creators-call-for-an-end-to-hateful-har-1629371868



Long list, but there are names from Ubisoft, EA, Blizzard, Infinity Ward, Rockstar, Bungie, Volition & DICE in there. I guess that's a few more studios the haters can stop buying games from.

Hurr durr don't hate people feel good bullshit. Seriously even the people who are against the current game journalism will not argue with that statement because it is so obvious. There is a difference between criticism and harassment, and gaming journalists and femenists need to learn this. Instead they would rather focus on troll comments and a very small minority of people who were discussing the topic to paint all opposition as horrible people. It is simply a false narrative.

EDIT: Here is a petition to stop the hate.

EDIT2: Here is the current feminist logic for you. If you criticize the man hating radical feminists other feminists will cry about how they are a very small minority and are not the views for the majority of feminists. However they have no issues at all with calling gamers in general mysoginists because of a very small minority, and most of that minority are trolls from 4chan. The double standard is just so glaringly obvious that anyone who cannot see it is being willfully ignorant.

 

[thedosbox]

However they have no issues at all with calling gamers in general mysoginists because of a very small minority, and most of that minority are trolls from 4chan. The double standard is just so glaringly obvious that anyone who cannot see it is being willfully ignorant.

LOL - maybe you should look at some of the posts in this thread.

And no, the criticisms of "gamers" are clearly aimed at those idiots being, well, idiots. If you count yourself amongst that minority, that's your problem.

 

[Nebor]

Well, you can add the Saints Row Developers to the list you won't want to support then:

https://twitter.com/SteveJaros/status/504227522423185409



The people being targeted with death threats and rape are the bullies? Huh.

Oh yeah, Saints Row games are definitely paragons of egalitarian, gender-neutral progressivism.

Of course these developers are going to say they want the harassment to stop. It's free publicity on a non-controversial issue. The issue is that none of the death or rape threats are substantiated (as the breit bart article explains, none have ever once been substantiated against any female public figure.) They're the standard background noise that any public figure receives. But these women who have nothing real to contribute to video games make themselves all about that background noise. They post pictures to their twitter and try to get as much attention as possible based on it because they have nothing else to offer.

It's amazing to me how easily manipulated some of you are by women. It makes me wonder how you get by in your daily lives.

 

[SMOGZINN]

The issue is that none of the death or rape threats are substantiated (as the breit bart article explains, none have ever once been substantiated against any female public figure.) They're the standard background noise that any public figure receives.

And that is a major problem. This is not okay. We should not make excuses for the terrible people that would make such horrific statements. It is a major problem that we can't hand wave away by saying it is normal. And really, just saying that this sort of thing is normal should tell you everything you need to know about the enormity of the problem.
We need to root this out and stomp on it hard.

But these women who have nothing real to contribute to video games make themselves all about that background noise. They post pictures to their twitter and try to get as much attention as possible based on it because they have nothing else to offer.

Well, it looks like they have something to contribute after all. They point out how bad this background noise is, and to advocate that we as a society do something about it.
Why does them wanting attention bother you?

 

[Red Storm]

And that is a major problem. This is not okay. We should not make excuses for the terrible people that would make such horrific statements. It is a major problem that we can't hand wave away by saying it is normal. And really, just saying that this sort of thing is normal should tell you everything you need to know about the enormity of the problem.
We need to root this out and stomp on it hard.

It's easy to say a problem needs fixing, it's not as easy to actually come up with a realistic solution. Do you have one? I know I don't. You're not going to stop crazy people who like to say these things to anybody that's even mildly famous without any justifiable reason. You just aren't, that's a fact.

 

[jruchko]

LOL - maybe you should look at some of the posts in this thread.

And no, the criticisms of "gamers" are clearly aimed at those idiots being, well, idiots. If you count yourself amongst that minority, that's your problem.

Really? So sites trying to turn the term "gamer" into a pejorative are simply talking about a very small minority right? Do you really think people are stupid enough to believe that?

And that is a major problem. This is not okay. We should not make excuses for the terrible people that would make such horrific statements. It is a major problem that we can't hand wave away by saying it is normal. And really, just saying that this sort of thing is normal should tell you everything you need to know about the enormity of the problem.
We need to root this out and stomp on it hard.

Here is how this thing works:
Anita posts new video
4chan trolls her hard
She plays victim card
She gets a lot of publicity
Rinse and repeat

She knows she will get trolled, and she uses it to her advantage. This whole thing has happened enough times now that people should have caught on already.

 

[SMOGZINN]

It's easy to say a problem needs fixing, it's not as easy to actually come up with a realistic solution. Do you have one? I know I don't. You're not going to stop crazy people who like to say these things to anybody that's even mildly famous without any justifiable reason. You just aren't, that's a fact.

Yes. I have a solution. It is the same solution we have had for all such problems. Keep shaming the people that do it. Don't accept it as normal, keep railing against it. Keep bringing it up. Keep talking about it. Don't say 'Of well, nothing we can do!'.

We might not get rid of it completely, but we will slowly whittle it away to a whisper.

Here is how this thing works:
Anita posts new video
4chan trolls her hard
She plays victim card
She gets a lot of publicity
Rinse and repeat

She knows she will get trolled, and she uses it to her advantage. This whole thing has happened enough times now that people should have caught on already.

Caught on to what exactly? That this is still going on? Yes, we know. That is why she is still making her videos. When she finally starts making videos and does not get threatened, harassed, and bullied then she will quit. Until then she has a reason to keep complaining. That is how advocacy works.

 

[jruchko]

Caught on to what exactly? That this is still going on? Yes, we know. That is why she is still making her videos. When she finally starts making videos and does not get threatened, harassed, and bullied then she will quit. Until then she has a reason to keep complaining. That is how advocacy works.

Caught on to the fact that she knows full well that she will get trolled and she will use it for publicity. This isn't something new, she has been using this since the beginning. She has built a career on getting trolled.

EDIT: I really can't blame her though because she is clearly a lot smarter then the trolls. They troll her to see her victim posts, they think it is funny. She wants those posts, because it gets her more money. That is my opinion anyway, because the arguments she makes in her videos are just horribly bad, and a lot of the stuff she says is just repeated from other sources. She has been called out about it countless times and she still continues to use the same tactics because it gets the response she wants from the trolls. (Some of the overall points she makes are true in a general sense, but the arguments and the way she presents them are just bad)

 

[Red Storm]

Yes. I have a solution. It is the same solution we have had for all such problems. Keep shaming the people that do it. Don't accept it as normal, keep railing against it. Keep bringing it up. Keep talking about it. Don't say 'Of well, nothing we can do!'.

We might not get rid of it completely, but we will slowly whittle it away to a whisper.

No, all that does is bring attention to the trolls, which is exactly what they want. When you give your time and attention to people that are trying to troll you, you've played into their hands. There are enough people in the world that there will always be some who play the part of troll, the rest of us just need to continue ignoring them and focus on the things that actually matter.

 

[Subyman]

Obviously you haven't watched the series. She clearly says this isn't an issue of "monkey see, monkey do" because exposure to media is much more complex than that. FWIW, millions have been spent on video game violence studies, so....

I actually sat down and watched all the videos. I thought they were great and thought provoking. I want to play that damsel game she proposed in part III of Damsel in Distress. I remember playing through Watch Dog and immediately I was bored when I found out it was another revenge saga.

 

[jruchko]

Obviously you haven't watched the series. She clearly says this isn't an issue of "monkey see, monkey do" because exposure to media is much more complex than that. FWIW, millions have been spent on video game violence studies, so....

Millions have been spent and what do those studies say? They say that there is no link, and in fact several said that playing violent video games might actually LOWER aggressive behavior because the game itself is an outlet for their anger.

I have watched her videos by the way, she makes some good points, but her reasoning behind them and how she presents her arguments are shaky to put it nicely.

For example, her whole "women are objects" thing. It is a video game, everything is an object. If you follow her definition, male characters are objectified much more often (many more male characters in general so more "objects"). I do think that a lot of the strip club type levels/locations in games serve no real purpose for the story and are put in to attract a male demographic. She however thinks its because of misogyny when it is mostly because of lazy writing. It has nothing to do with sexism and everything to do with shit writers writing shit stories in combination with marketing focusing on teen males.

Watch this video for an idea of what I agree with.

 

[Subyman]

Millions have been spent and what do those studies say? They say that there is no link, and in fact sever said that playing violent video games might actually LOWER aggressive behavior because the game itself is an outlet for their anger.

I have watched her videos by the way, she makes some good points, but her reasoning behind them and how she presents her arguments are shaky to put it nicely.

For example, her whole "women are objects" thing. It is a video game, everything is an object. If you follow her definition, male characters are objectified much more often (many more male characters in general so more "objects"). I do think that a lot of the strip club type levels/locations in games serve no real purpose for the story and are put in to attract a male demographic. She however thinks its because of misogyny when it is mostly because of lazy writing. It has nothing to do with sexism and everything to do with shit writers writing shit stories in combination with marketing focusing on teen males.

Watch this video for an idea of what I agree with.

What I like about her series is that she subtly notes that men are being reduced to violent-seeking morons who's only purpose to is either save women or exact revenge. It isn't just violence against women, women as objects, or female tropes. Do we really want to keep playing a male character that is singularly focused on killing people and trying to save his family? I've found myself really disliking the story in modern video games, and watching her series has resonated with me. I, as a male, do not connect with the blood-lusting protagonist that I keep having to play.

I watched the movie "punisher" when I was in high school. Why I've had to continually play that same story for the last decade is because of lazy writers and no one speaking up about the stories they write.

She directly said in her videos that its not about a misogynistic developer looking to undermine females through their portrayal in video games. She agrees with you; that it is lazy writing and being unaware that they are being influenced by the biased writing that they grew up playing. It is time to realize this and create fresh stories and gameplay mechanics. I don't know how anyone can not agree with that, unless you'd like to save the girl the rest of your life.

 

[thedosbox]

Really? So sites trying to turn the term "gamer" into a pejorative are simply talking about a very small minority right? Do you really think people are stupid enough to believe that?

So you feel personally affronted by the use of the term "gamer" to describe an idiot minority, even though you claim not to be part of that group? Huh.

More seriously, any article I've seen that criticizes gamer behaviour explicitly talks about what behaviour they're referring to. The implied understanding being that it is a vocal minority.

 

[Grooveriding]

The most unfortunate thing is that these trolls and extremists who disagree with her viewpoints are giving her ammunition to use in attempts to further play the victim and legitimize her asinine viewpoints.

It's always the worst of people that do a good job of shoring up the opinion's of those they disagree with. The sort of over analytical bullshit this anita excretes is just the sort of feces to attract the flies that would breed their maggots in it.

The real shame are the white knights and self-haters who latch on to her garbage after having been beaten down and convinced they're victimizers. Her crap is not going to do anything because she does not understand the simple concept that gaming is a market driven force and it will continue to deliver what the majority of that market wants. It's just another imbecile wasting their efforts on where there is no problem. She ought to pack herself off to Africa or get involved in some of the real inequality issues out there like income inequality or how women are treated in some countries. This gaming crusade will go nowhere for her and just serves to make an ass of herself.

 

[Red Storm]

What I like about her series is that she subtly notes that men are being reduced to violent-seeking morons who's only purpose to is either save women or exact revenge. It isn't just violence against women, women as objects, or female tropes. Do we really want to keep playing a male character that is singularly focused on killing people and trying to save his family? I've found myself really disliking the story in modern video games, and watching her series has resonated with me. I, as a male, do not connect with the blood-lusting protagonist that I keep having to play.

I watched the movie "punisher" when I was in high school. Why I've had to continually play that same story for the last decade is because of lazy writers and no one speaking up about the stories they write.

She directly said in her videos that its not about a misogynistic developer looking to undermine females through their portrayal in video games. She agrees with you; that it is lazy writing and being unaware that they are being influenced by the biased writing that they grew up playing. It is time to realize this and create fresh stories and gameplay mechanics. I don't know how anyone can not agree with that, unless you'd like to save the girl the rest of your life.

Can we get some proof? I've been playing video games all my life and while I know that some of them were "save the girl" games, most of them were not.

 

[Phanuel]

I've found myself really disliking the story in modern video games, and watching her series has resonated with me. I, as a male, do not connect with the blood-lusting protagonist that I keep having to play.

I watched the movie "punisher" when I was in high school. Why I've had to continually play that same story for the last decade is because of lazy writers and no one speaking up about the stories they write.

Then go play The Sims or a sports game? I don't quite understand what you're complaining about here. There are other games out there. However most of us don't sit down and play video games to recreate the mundane things we could do in real life. We play them to escape into an adventure of some kind. And there are really only so many themes out there.

 

[Red Storm]

Then go play The Sims or a sports game? I don't quite understand what you're complaining about here. There are other games out there. However most of us don't sit down and play video games to recreate the mundane things we could do in real life. We play them to escape into an adventure of some kind. And there are really only so many themes out there.

Even excluding sport/racing and sims games, there are still PLENTY of games out there that aren't "Save the Girl" types.

 

[Aikouka]

What makes me scratch my head a bit is what appears to be a double-standard. Earlier this year, a Call of Duty developer made changes to the way a weapon behaves in the game, and because of this, he received death threats. The media reported it, but nothing really resulted from it. Sarkeesian posts videos, gets death threats, and all of a sudden, it's a super serious deal. Don't get me wrong... I don't think either situation is good, but why was there no support from the industry (that I saw) behind the male Call of Duty developer? Could it be more of a fault of the news industry as they realize that Sarkeesian makes for a far better story that will pull in more readers? Isn't that really the problem that Sarkeesian is trying to avoid? I mean... the trope of using women as damsels in distress is usually to evoke the emotional response from a male to be "the protector".

 

[PhatoseAlpha]

Credibility, perhaps? Did the death threats to the CoD developer include, say, his home address?

 

[Aikouka]

Credibility, perhaps? Did the death threats to the CoD developer include, say, his home address?

I'm not sure. I tried to find some articles on it that weren't on gaming sites (so I could view them at the moment), but all I found were links to sites like Eurogamer and Kotaku.

I guess one of the things that I'm trying to highlight are that death threats all the time, and it seems odd that we've finally hit the tipping point. Heck, I'm pretty sure this isn't even the first time Sarkeesian has received death threats for her gaming-related videos. So, why now? What made this instance be the time when everyone finally decided to take a stand?

 

[CakeMonster]

The most unfortunate thing is that these trolls and extremists who disagree with her viewpoints are giving her ammunition to use in attempts to further play the victim and legitimize her asinine viewpoints.

It's always the worst of people that do a good job of shoring up the opinion's of those they disagree with. The sort of over analytical bullshit this anita excretes is just the sort of feces to attract the flies that would breed their maggots in it.

The real shame are the white knights and self-haters who latch on to her garbage after having been beaten down and convinced they're victimizers.

[...]

Her videos are perfectly reasonable. She is right to the point, lucid, calm, she defines her terms and use plenty of examples. She is on topic and doesn't even mention the threats or discussion around it all.

I really, really wonder whether most of the people who call her "evil", "delusional", "asinine" and consider her videos "excrement" have actually seen the videos.

That aside, there is an awful lot of language here deriding feminism, and then attacking everyone supporting, and especially men who dare to do it. I think the anti-feminist crusader have picked the wrong target, if you want to score cheap points then why don't you criticize an actual crazy feminist? Seems like there's tons of rage built up and she is on the receiving end for putting up perfectly reasonable, moderate, and hardly even political videos about games.

 

[Nebor]

Well, it looks like they have something to contribute after all. They point out how bad this background noise is, and to advocate that we as a society do something about it.
Why does them wanting attention bother you?

That isn't useful. That's just being a professional victim. They're profiting from it. Sorry, I don't think that's a worthwhile pursuit. They're creating and feeding the problem that they're supposedly trying to solve.

 

[Nebor]

Caught on to the fact that she knows full well that she will get trolled and she will use it for publicity. This isn't something new, she has been using this since the beginning. She has built a career on getting trolled.

EDIT: I really can't blame her though because she is clearly a lot smarter then the trolls. They troll her to see her victim posts, they think it is funny. She wants those posts, because it gets her more money. That is my opinion anyway, because the arguments she makes in her videos are just horribly bad, and a lot of the stuff she says is just repeated from other sources. She has been called out about it countless times and she still continues to use the same tactics because it gets the response she wants from the trolls. (Some of the overall points she makes are true in a general sense, but the arguments and the way she presents them are just bad)

Agreed. 4chan knows what they're doing, she knows what she's doing. The only people losing here are the white knight suckers who are willing to go to bat for someone who's just using them. The fact that these people have fake charities that can't even qualify for non-profit status that rake in hundreds of thousands of dollars in donation subscriptions is mind boggling. Dorky guys who want to feel like heroes think that giving money to these swamp donkeys makes them a great defender of women.