Track Car Suggestions

[Billb2]

Is the cost for a car track day more or less than a bike? Bike averages $150 a day here during summer + gate. Kart track is $30-40 usually and mx track is a little bit cheaper than kart.

We race SCCA Spec Racer Ford and track days are $300-350. That gets you 6-8 20 minute sessions.

 

[JCH13]

Let's put it this way. The conviction displayed here is similar to someone convinced that playing ping pong with the riff raff at the y prepares them for the serious sport. There might even be a few guys there with equiv rating >1k, but to put it lightly the comedy hour on track makes it rather difficult to develop the various skills necessary to advance.

I... I... What the ballsack are you smoking?

I never said that driving in any competitive environment prepares someone for 'the serious sport.' You seem to be laboring under the glorious delusion that everyone who straps on a helmet wants to train to be the next Senna. This is simply not the case. Some (many? most?) just want to have fun racing. All OP wanted was track time, and there are a lot of valid ways of getting that.

You go have fun training to be an pro race driver on Karts (Senna aside) and stop being a condescending spunk receptacle to those who choose to race in a different venue.

 

[agent00f]

Mustangs have horrible handling.

They are not track cars.

But a lot of twits driving 5.0s like to think otherwise.

You do not seem to know even vaguely what you are talking about, but I guess you might have changed from the mustang suggestion.

Is about like comparing the maneuverability of the space shuttle to an F-16.

Pardon me for ever comparing a Ford Mustang to the space shuttle.

Mustangs aren't as bad as magazines written by people who can't drive make them out to be. What such articles consider "great handling" is hardly the prime consideration on a racetrack, esp for the subject of this thread. Quite a few are owned by serious racers.

I... I... What the ballsack are you smoking?

I never said that driving in any competitive environment prepares someone for 'the serious sport.' You seem to be laboring under the glorious delusion that everyone who straps on a helmet wants to train to be the next Senna. This is simply not the case. Some (many? most?) just want to have fun racing. All OP wanted was track time, and there are a lot of valid ways of getting that.

You go have fun training to be an pro race driver on Karts (Senna aside) and stop being a condescending spunk receptacle to those who choose to race in a different venue.

I have a feeling you weren't just looking for a participation gold star, given whatever joy felt passing that corolla with no brakes in another heap with only severely faded brakes, both driven at 7-8/10th at most to keep it running til the end.

 

[rstrohkirch]

 

[jlee]

I have a feeling you weren't just looking for a participation gold star, given whatever joy felt passing that corolla with no brakes in another heap with only severely faded brakes, both driven at 7-8/10th at most to keep it running til the end.

Once again, feelings and assumptions reign supreme. At least you're consistent.

 

[agent00f]

Once again, feelings and assumptions reign supreme. At least you're consistent.

If your crapbox brakes lasts more than a couple laps, then it's pretty obvious you don't brake very hard.

 

[JCH13]

Are you kidding? I live for participation stickers! They're just the best. I have them all over my Hello Kitty™ Trapper Keeper. I've got way more than you do, too!

You're entitled to feel any way you want. I just hope that one day you get your big boy pants on and walk the walk so that you can start speaking to any automotive/racing topic with a level of intelligence and experience beyond that of a 15y/o who can't wait to put altezzas and a fart can on his mom's civic. In the meantime please keep your witless drivel to yourself.

 

[jlee]

If your crapbox brakes lasts more than a couple laps, then it's pretty obvious you don't brake very hard.

Once again, feelings and assumptions reign supreme. At least you're consistent.

 

[agent00f]

Are you kidding? I live for participation stickers! They're just the best. I have them all over my Hello Kitty™ Trapper Keeper. I've got way more than you do, too!

You're entitled to feel any way you want. I just hope that one day you get your big boy pants on and walk the walk so that you can start speaking to any automotive/racing topic with a level of intelligence and experience beyond that of a 15y/o who can't wait to put altezzas and a fart can on his mom's civic. In the meantime please keep your witless drivel to yourself.

Not terribly surprising folks rather short on braking ability literally brag about "racing" shitcans.

 

[JCH13]

If your crapbox brakes lasts more than a couple laps, then it's pretty obvious you don't brake very hard.

If my objective was to make you look like an astonishingly ignorant dipstick I probably could not have written a better response than this! Thank you very much for this little nugget, it is both juicy and delicious... mmmm....

In Lemons/Chump/etc tires, wheels, and all braking components are not controlled by the budget rules. My team expends a set of Porterfield R4E brake pads per car per race. Brake fade/stopping torque has never been an issue.

 

[jlee]

If my objective was to make you look like an astonishingly ignorant dipstick I probably could not have written a better response than this! Thank you very much for this little nugget, it is both juicy and delicious... mmmm....

In Lemons/Chump/etc tires, wheels, and all braking components are not controlled by the budget rules. My team expends a set of Porterfield R4E brake pads per car per race. Brake fade/stopping torque has never been an issue.

Speaking of budget...

4.2: Safety Equipment DOES NOT Count Toward $500 Total: Safety equipment described in Section 3 DOES NOT count toward the $500 total. "Safety" refers to things that can save the driver--not things that can save the car.

• 4.2.1: Beside the items and processes listed in Section 3, the following are considered safety-related and therefore exempt:
  • Wheels, tires, wheel bearings, balljoints, and brake components
  • Exhaust systems downstream of the header/exhaust manifold (NOTE: Turbos and related components are NOT exempt from the $500 limit. Nice try.)
  • Windshields and wipers.
  • Driver comfort & information (steering wheel, shifter, gauges, pedals, cool suits, vents, heaters, radio)
  • All fuel hoses, fuel fittings, fuel filters, and related mounts
  • All fuel-system components upstream of the fuel pump, including tanks/cells, mounts, fillers, vents, etc. (NOTE: Fuel pumps, carburetors, injection pumps, computers, and individual injectors are NOT exempt from the $500 limit.)

Anyone who's ever raced knows this, though.

 

[jlee]

The OP has been terribly derailed.

I would still recommend a Miata.

 

[agent00f]

If my objective was to make you look like an astonishingly ignorant dipstick I probably could not have written a better response than this! Thank you very much for this little nugget, it is both juicy and delicious... mmmm....

In Lemons/Chump/etc tires, wheels, and all braking components are not controlled by the budget rules. My team expends a set of Porterfield R4E brake pads per car per race. Brake fade/stopping torque has never been an issue.

Consider one of those teams (who're actually driving half fast) spending the money for proper brake/tire/safety etc hardware, the major expenses of any racing budget, what exactly are they saving over a half-decent car?

Shitbox endurance racing does have its place, and it's in the endurance part of trying to nurse/fix a wreck to the end, not praying some other yahoo who has no business going wheel to wheel doesn't kill you.

The OP has been terribly derailed.

I would still recommend a Miata.

Miatas aren't cheap because they're desirable for these purposes.

 

[JCH13]

Consider one of those teams (who're actually driving half fast) spending the money for proper brake/tire/safety etc hardware, the major expenses of any racing budget, what exactly are they saving over a half-decent car?

Shitbox endurance racing does have its place, and it's in the endurance part of trying to nurse/fix a wreck to the end, not praying some other yahoo who has no business going wheel to wheel doesn't kill you.




Miatas aren't cheap because they're desirable for these purposes.

Oh, gee, I don't know what you would possibly save money on... other than literally every other subsystem on the car. No blueprinted engines, no dyno-matched shocks, no acid-dipped chassis, no ultra light exhaust systems, no carbon fiber aerodynamic elements. need I go on? or should I give you a moment to unlodge your foot from your mouth?

 

[jlee]

http://phoenix.craigslist.org/cph/cto/5835411466.html

http://phoenix.craigslist.org/wvl/cto/5809760736.html

http://newjersey.craigslist.org/cto/5846929030.html

http://cnj.craigslist.org/cto/5844786180.html

http://jerseyshore.craigslist.org/cto/5838869890.html

 

[Fenixgoon]

Miatas aren't cheap because they're desirable for these purposes.

no, they're cheap because they're 25 years old at this point. but there's a reason why flyinmiata.com exists and is *the* place to go for miata performance parts. throw on a tokikki suspension kit, a little BBK, and some star specs and you have something that will destroy oh so many cars for so little $$.

 

[agent00f]

Oh, gee, I don't know what you would possibly save money on... other than literally every other subsystem on the car. No blueprinted engines, no dyno-matched shocks, no acid-dipped chassis, no ultra light exhaust systems, no carbon fiber aerodynamic elements. need I go on? or should I give you a moment to unlodge your foot from your mouth?

Perhaps consider the options that jlee just helpfully posted that seem much better than some $500 piece of crap:

http://phoenix.craigslist.org/cph/cto/5835411466.html

http://phoenix.craigslist.org/wvl/cto/5809760736.html

http://newjersey.craigslist.org/cto/5846929030.html

http://cnj.craigslist.org/cto/5844786180.html

http://jerseyshore.craigslist.org/cto/5838869890.html

Though it's probably worth a little more to find one that doesn't have the engine apart or looks like some yahoo already tried racing it.

Trying to defend shitbox racing as legit is hella comical consider half the cars don't even stop straight towards the end.

no, they're cheap because they're 25 years old at this point. but there's a reason why flyinmiata.com exists and is *the* place to go for miata performance parts. throw on a tokikki suspension kit, a little BBK, and some star specs and you have something that will destroy oh so many cars for so little $$.

It's not really destroying anything with a 100hp engine unless maybe you use racing slicks, or race against people who can't drive.

 

[Billb2]

A little comment about beater racing:

95% of the teams in Lemons/Chump could care less about winning. It's mostly nOObs in ill-prepared, unsorted cars getting cheep track time
.
There are people that show up with real race cars. And there are people that know what they're doing. We've raced against Jeg Coughlin, Randy Propst, Tony Schumacher, and Prat & Miller among others.

We had a Honda CRX Si with $11K in it. Stuff like coil overs, Acura 11 inch brakes and NASCAR dry break fuel system . It was a completely sorted and winning car driven by people with experience in professional road racing cars (IMSA, Rolex Daytona Prototype).

Just sayin'

 

[SearchMaster]

winner winner. the answer is always miata.

Guys, it's not that hard.

Miata
Is
Always
The
Answer

 

[JCH13]

A little comment about beater racing:

95% of the teams in Lemons/Chump could care less about winning. It's mostly nOObs in ill-prepared, unsorted cars getting cheep track time
.
There are people that show up with real race cars. And there are people that know what they're doing. We've raced against Jeg Coughlin, Randy Propst, Tony Schumacher, and Prat & Miller among others.

We had a Honda CRX Si with $11K in it. Stuff like coil overs, Acura 11 inch brakes and NASCAR dry break fuel system . It was a completely sorted and winning car driven by people with experience in professional road racing cars (IMSA, Rolex Daytona Prototype).

Just sayin'

95% seems like quite the hyperbole. For sure there are plenty of n00bs and unprepared cars, but I don't think that those are the majority of cars, at least not at the races I've driven in.

There's three tiers of cars at events (I'm stating this for the edification of the thread, you are clearly aware): under-prepared cars that usually go down in flames, sorted near-stock cars that reliably bang out laps that pursue the tortise side of endurance racing, and sorted modified cars that pursue the hare side of endurance racing. These can turn the fastest laps but may have lower reliability than near-stockers. Well, I suppose that there are really 4 classes, the final being the cars going for IOE. Hehe.

Driving in such a varied field is a lot of fun. Reading traffic properly will give you a significant advantage over other cars in your class. Understanding the performance differences between all of the cars lets you drive intelligently. You'll always get a number of laps with an open track in front of you to exercise best-practices on the racing line, but you'll also have to get good at driving off the racing line. The best part of lemons is going toe-to-toe with a car that has wildly different performance characteristics than your own. One of my favorite times was driving a mostly-stock MK2 MR2 against a turbocharged crown victoria. I had absolutely nothing on them in the straights, but managed to get past them by out-braking them and reading traffic well.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again: different people are looking for different things when they get behind the wheel. Some are looking for inexpensive track time, some are looking to be better drivers, some are looking to win, some like to think they're training to become a pro driver. Lemons/Chump offer a certain experience, but they are neither inherently better or worse than other options, just different. To think or say that there aren't competitive cars or drivers in any sort of racing is simply ignorant.

 

[Billb2]

In all the races we've been in, after the first hour, there were only 5 or 6 cars that could make competitive lap times.
In all the races we've won (6) there were only 2-3 cars left in the last hour that had any chance.

95%? Well maybe 90%.

 

[jlee]

In all the races we've been in, after the first hour, there were only 5 or 6 cars that could make competitive lap times.
In all the races we've won (6) there were only 2-3 cars left in the last hour that had any chance.

95%? Well maybe 90%.

Apparently there's quite a variance in car quality between races, then.

I've placed top ten in a 112-car field with our guys -- but honestly, I don't care about winning. If I put in a few hours of clean track time, I'm happy.

 

[JCH13]

In all the races we've been in, after the first hour, there were only 5 or 6 cars that could make competitive lap times.
In all the races we've won (6) there were only 2-3 cars left in the last hour that had any chance.

95%? Well maybe 90%.

As JLee showed, this hasn't been our experience with Lemons, not even close.

 

[Billb2]

Apparently there's quite a variance in car quality between races, then.

I've placed top ten in a 112-car field with our guys -- but honestly, I don't care about winning. If I put in a few hours of clean track time, I'm happy.

Anything 4th and below wasn't going to win in that race.

The differences could be regional. we raced in the Midwest mostly, and once in West Palm Beach Fl..

 

[agent00f]

95% seems like quite the hyperbole. For sure there are plenty of n00bs and unprepared cars, but I don't think that those are the majority of cars, at least not at the races I've driven in.

There's three tiers of cars at events (I'm stating this for the edification of the thread, you are clearly aware): under-prepared cars that usually go down in flames, sorted near-stock cars that reliably bang out laps that pursue the tortise side of endurance racing, and sorted modified cars that pursue the hare side of endurance racing. These can turn the fastest laps but may have lower reliability than near-stockers. Well, I suppose that there are really 4 classes, the final being the cars going for IOE. Hehe.

Driving in such a varied field is a lot of fun. Reading traffic properly will give you a significant advantage over other cars in your class. Understanding the performance differences between all of the cars lets you drive intelligently. You'll always get a number of laps with an open track in front of you to exercise best-practices on the racing line, but you'll also have to get good at driving off the racing line. The best part of lemons is going toe-to-toe with a car that has wildly different performance characteristics than your own. One of my favorite times was driving a mostly-stock MK2 MR2 against a turbocharged crown victoria. I had absolutely nothing on them in the straights, but managed to get past them by out-braking them and reading traffic well.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again: different people are looking for different things when they get behind the wheel. Some are looking for inexpensive track time, some are looking to be better drivers, some are looking to win, some like to think they're training to become a pro driver. Lemons/Chump offer a certain experience, but they are neither inherently better or worse than other options, just different. To think or say that there aren't competitive cars or drivers in any sort of racing is simply ignorant.

You clearly have pretty lax standards as to what constitutes unprepared or best-practices or racing line, and that certainly represents a lot of the more srs bidness people at these events. HPDEs and such don't let relative noobs go wheel to wheel for good reason, and it's likely only the combination of slow cars being driven even slower plus spending the vast majority of the budget on safety gear that we haven't seen a fatality yet at these shitfests.

Apparently there's quite a variance in car quality between races, then.

I've placed top ten in a 112-car field with our guys -- but honestly, I don't care about winning. If I put in a few hours of clean track time, I'm happy.

Rather an own goal here by admitting to not being serious, yet still placing top 10%. The variation is largely in what varying people consider quality/serious, with folks evidently placing themselves on one side of the line or other depending on mood.