[TPU] Nvidia prepares "price cuts across it's entire lineup"

[ams23]

The R9 280x just rendered the 770 as bad of a value as it gets! $100 more for the same thing. What a rip off.

Some games favor NVIDIA's GPU architecture, and in those games the GTX 770 is noticeably faster. And right now, one can get Superclocked EVGA GTX 770 for $399 w/ MIR and with a free copy of Batman Arkham Origins. So at least that is a much better deal than GTX 680 (ie. more performance, lower price, free game) for those who want an NVIDIA card. On the other hand, R9 280X makes little sense because HD 7970 OC edition is equally as fast, is cheaper, has the same featureset, is available now, and has a game bundle included in the price too.

 

[SirPauly]

Wrong. NVAPI is not a graphics rendering API. It is for utility that D3D does not provide but is not a full graphics rendering API. Per John Mcdonald @ nvidia:

"Please do your homework before you post"

It may not be a low level API but does help with graphics:

http://en.expreview.com/2008/10/21/nvidia-can-use-the-dx101-in-far-cry-2/1141.html

UBI : FarCry 2 reads from a multisampled depth buffer to speed up antialiasing performance.This feature is fully implemented on GeForce GPUs via NVAPI. Radeon GPUs implement an equivalent path via DirectX 10.1. There is no image quality or performance difference between the two implementations.

The piece of extra info is that the game uses NVAPI to access the feature of multisampled depth buffers, which our hardware supports.

Curious to see how efficient Mantle is or how open it may become? What nVidia may or may not do?


On pricing:

http://www.anandtech.com/show/7401/nvidia-announces-gtx-660-gtx-650-ti-boost-price-cut

Surprisingly no cuts for the 760, 770 and 780!

 

[ams23]

If GTX 770Ti materializes, then we may see a price cut on GTX 770. Keep in mind that GTX 6xx and GTX 7xx cards appear to be bundled with a free copy of Batman Arkham Origins at this time, so that adds value too.

 

[wand3r3r]

Some games favor NVIDIA's GPU architecture, and in those games the GTX 770 is noticeably faster. And right now, one can get Superclocked EVGA GTX 770 for $399 w/ MIR and with a free copy of Batman Arkham Origins. So at least that is a much better deal than GTX 680 (ie. more performance, lower price, free game) for those who want an NVIDIA card. On the other hand, R9 280X makes little sense because HD 7970 OC edition is equally as fast, is cheaper, has the same featureset, is available now, and has a game bundle included in the price too.

The average performance is less than 5% for $100 more (33% higher price).

There is no way to twist that unless you are a NV stockholder or just don't care about money and are a blind brand name fan. The 770 will do nothing better than the 280 overall as it's the average. You can't claim that the 770 will perform better in a "few games", because obviously for each game it performs better in, there will be as many where it's as far the other direction i.e. worse. That's a simple fact and can't be twisted no matter how it's worded.

Comparing the 280x and trying to downplay it by comparing the 770 to an even worse value card the 680, from the same company that's ripping people off with the 770, doesn't increase the value. How could that increase the value? Note* It doesn't!

Trying to show it in a bad light relative to the 7970 G is relative (since there's not a 33% price difference and 5% performance difference), but the justifications against NV's way overpriced cards are ridiculous.

If GTX 770Ti materializes, then we may see a price cut on GTX 770. Keep in mind that GTX 6xx and GTX 7xx cards appear to be bundled with a free copy of Batman Arkham Origins at this time, so that adds value too.

What was your stance on the Never settle games? Did they add value?

AMD might add the bundles to the new cards once the old HD 7xxx series are sold out, at least reviewers speculate.

 

[Genx87]

Hopefully these price cuts come sooner rather than later. My GTX 470 has been sold and my computer awaits!

 

[blackened23]

Hopefully these price cuts come sooner rather than later. My GTX 470 has been sold and my computer awaits!

Indeed. I find the news of the 770ti to be pretty exciting as well - there is such a big price gap between the 770 and 780, would be great to have something in-between.

 

[Erenhardt]

Indeed. I find the news of the 770ti to be pretty exciting as well - there is such a big price gap between the 770 and 780, would be great to have something in-between.

Or have nothing in between! Drop 770 to $300 and 780 to $400 and call it a day!

 

[ams23]

The average performance is less than 5% for $100 more (33% higher price).

Look, this isn't rocket science. Obviously GTX 770 is nothing miraculous in terms of "value", but there are reasons to buy it for people who prefer NV or NV-friendly games (of which there are many), and GTX 770 is noticeably faster than anything else NVIDIA has had in this price range (and comes with a nice game too).

On the other hand, R9 270X is slower tham HD 7950 OC edition, has less RAM, is more expensive, and has no game bundle; R9 280X is as fast as HD 7970 OC edition, has same RAM, is more expensive, and has no game bundle. Only the most diehard AMD fan would spin this as a step forward for those who want an AMD card at these respective price points.

 

[Erenhardt]

Look, this isn't rocket science. Obviously GTX 770 is nothing miraculous in terms of "value", but there are reasons to buy it for people who prefer NV or NV-friendly games (of which there are many), and GTX 770 is noticeably faster than anything else NVIDIA had in this price range last year (and comes with a nice game too).

On the other hand, R9 270X is slower tham HD 7950 OC edition, has less RAM, is more expensive, and has no game bundle; R9 280X is as fast as HD 7970 OC edition, has same RAM, is more expensive, and has no game bundle. Only the most diehard AMD fan would spin this as a step forward for those who want an AMD card at these respective price points.

Spin to win... good luck with that!

 

[ams23]

Spin to win... good luck with that!

LOL, are you kidding me? The 7970 OC edition is available now for significantly less than $300, and outperforms R9 280X. Same goes for 7950 OC edition vs R9 270X, with both 79xx cards including a game bundle too. So perf. per dollar is actually going down relative to what already exists from AMD.

 

[RussianSensation]

LOL, are you kidding me? The 7970 OC edition is available now for significantly less than $300, and outperforms R9 280X. Same goes for 7950 OC edition vs R9 270X, with both 79xx cards including a game bundle too. So perf. per dollar is actually going down relative to what already exists from AMD.

What difference does it make if we talk about after-market 7970Ghz or after-market R9 280X?

If you want to focus on AMD vs. AMD, where can we buy a 1070mhz/6400mhz Asus DCUII 7970Ghz for $310?

660/760/770 are all overpriced.

I am glad TR's author calls it what it is:

"The new Radeon R9 cards match up very well against the competition from Nvidia, too, mostly because they're priced quite aggressively—especially the 280X. Nvidia needs to lop 50 bucks off the price of the GTX 760 and 100 bucks off the GTX 770 in order to remain competitive."
http://techreport.com/review/25466/amd-radeon-r9-280x-and-270x-graphics-cards/11

Where is this long list of NV-specific modern games where 770 is crushing the R9 280X/7970Ghz cards?

Crysis 3, arguably the most beautiful PC game shows that 770 has nothing in it over R9 280X.

BF4 beta (without Mantle)

Far Cry 3 BD

Tomb Raider, another beautiful game

770 costs more, yet only matches or loses to R9 280X in latest/beautiful games.

On pricing:
http://www.anandtech.com/show/7401/nvidia-announces-gtx-660-gtx-650-ti-boost-price-cut
Surprisingly no cuts for the 760, 770 and 780!

That's not surprising. That's sad. I hope PC gamers wake up and send a signal to NV that paying $100-150 more for 770 is not OK. If we continue to support such practices, NV will continue to keep prices high. No thanks the last thing we want is for NV to become like Apple.

 

[Erenhardt]

LOL, are you kidding me? The 7970 OC edition is available now for significantly less than $300, and outperforms R9 280X. Same goes for 7950 OC edition vs R9 270X, with both 79xx cards including a game bundle too. So perf. per dollar is actually going down relative to what already exists from AMD.

The same reason why 2012 Ford Mustang is cheaper than 2013 model.
New tag line:
7970 makes 280X obsolete - better buy nvidia!

 

[raghu78]

New tag line:
7970 makes 280X obsolete - better buy nvidia!

:thumbsup:

 

[RussianSensation]

:thumbsup:

:thumbsup::thumbsup: Not sure how deflecting that an older 7970Ghz is a better value than R9 280X relates to NV's overpriced 660/760/770 cards.

If cards like $310 R9 280X Asus DCUII TOP with 1070/6400 clocks made 770 look overpriced, then MSI TwinFrozr 1050/5500 for $268 makes the 770 look downright D:.

 

[ams23]

The same reason why 2012 Ford Mustang is cheaper than 2013 model.
New tag line:
7970 makes 280X obsolete - better buy nvidia!

LOL, so is this AMD's marketing angle for providing less performance/features for more money and no game bundle with R9 270X / R9 280X relative to HD 7950 OC / HD 7970 OC? Even car companies wouldn't do that (and car companies typically tweak or change hundreds of little things every year, and they usually don't change the car's name drastically either).

 

[blackened23]

As far as i'm aware, only the XFX model is actually "slower" and then by only a smidgen. It's still a way better value than the GTX 770, period, by a long shot, IMHO. Some shops are listing the R200 series as having the game bundles, although we won't be certain until Friday when they go on sale. I do agree that they should have the same game bundles as did the 79xx cards.

It is confusing as to why that specific XFX 280X model is slower than the GE - I actually agree that performance progressions should be the norm, not the other way around. It should be noted that most of the 280X models are faster than the 7970GE - the asus DC2T is indeed faster. The MSI gamer 280X is also faster than the 7970GE. Yet, this still does not take away from the fact that other models such as the XFX are clocked lower than the GE, which definitely is confusing - all 280X's should be performance progressions. But, the majority of 280X cards are actually clocked faster and are faster than the 7970GE. The only variable up in the air, with differing rumors, is whether they will have the never settle bundle. Some sites say yes, others say no (I think it should include never settle, obviously).

In any case, the GTX 770 is still a way worse value. Nobody is certain on the gaming bundles just yet since some sellers state that they will have Never Settle (and I would HOPE they have this), and either way you're essentially getting the same performance with the 770 for 100$ more. The situation with the 7970GE is weird. AMD needs to clarify the never settle situation (or perhaps we'll need to wait until Friday) or perhaps the 7970GE is just priced to clear out inventory. I would imagine that it is an EOL product just as the 680 is, and prices are being slashed to clear stock. *shrug*

You do have valid points, AMS. I agree with the points about performance progressions and that the gaming bundles should be held. The situation with the 280X is murky to say the least with some models being slower than the GE and others being faster. This should not be - they should ALL be faster so I have no idea why AMD did that. That said, the 770 is still by far a worse value. Nvidia needs to lower the price to make it an attractive buy. Consider the 770s prior position in the GPU foodchain: the GTX 770 *was* considered the value leader upon launch because it was 50-70$ cheaper than the 7970GE. Nearly everyone, including myself, thought it to be a far better buy than the 7970GE at that time. Now the role is reversed; the prior value proposition of the GTX 770 is gone - I would like to see the value proposition return. If it lowers in price by 50$ or so, voila, that's a done deal. Why would anyone disagree with that? Even a 350$ GTX 770 would be a viable contender. At 400$, it's much harder to recommend, especially considering it's a 2GB card.

 

[Erenhardt]

LOL, so is this AMD's marketing angle for providing less performance/features for more money and no game bundle with R9 270X / R9 280X relative to HD 7950 OC / HD 7970 OC? Even car companies wouldn't do that (and car companies typically tweak or change hundreds of little things every year, and they usually don't change the car's name drastically either).

Again - post #184

7970 MSRP was $549. Everything below that was a discount due to it getting older and close to EOL. Now, you get mostly the same for $250 (45%) less!
R series radeons come with never settle boudnle: http://www.overclockers.co.uk/productlist.php?groupid=701&catid=56&subid=1842

Did AMD change the name of their graphics? I guess I missed something, because last time I checked those are still Radeon graphics.

OT:
Are you talking about exact model? Well... I don't remember that there were WV Golf II gen S, SE and BlueMotion models. Strange because new gen have those models:
http://www.volkswagen.co.uk/new/golf-vii/which-model/compare/overview

 

[ams23]

@ Erenhardt: that MSRP was set two years ago. Anyway, if you deal with a state of reality and not a state of denial, it is very obvious that HD 7950 and HD 7970 OC editions make R9 270X and R9 280X irrelevant at this point in time, because they offer the same or better performance and features for a lower price, with a game bundle included for good measure. As for NVIDIA, their cards have been priced higher (relatively speaking) for a long time now, so nothing new or remarkable there, but at least they offer different features (such as PhysX, HBAO+, etc) and a bit better performance in some NV-friendly games (such as Bioshock Infinite, Battlefield 3, Batman Arkham City and Origins, Crysis 3, Assassin's Creed 3, Borderlands 2, Call of Duty Black Ops 2, etc.).

 

[blackened23]

@ Erenhardt: that MSRP was set two years ago. If you deal with a state of reality and not a state of denial, it is very obvious that HD 7950 and HD 7970 OC editions make R9 270X and R9 280X irrelevant at this point in time. As for NVIDIA, their cards have been priced higher (relatively speaking) for a long time now, so nothing new there.

Nope. 300$ 7970GE was a recent development as of two weeks ago (aside from a few fire sales here and there). Prior to GPU14, you would occassionally see one model of 7970 (non GE) on sale for 300-350$. The MSRP prices had not actually changed and thus the GTX 770 was cheaper - Remember, the GTX 770 was the prior GPU value leader because, on average, it was 50-70$ cheaper than the 7970GE. The MSRP of the 7970GE actually did not lower to 300-310$ until 2 weeks ago when the GPU14 event happened. Prior to that, scanning various websites like newegg showed that the 7970GE was still generally much more expensive than the GTX 770.

Again, the 7970GE being cheaper than the 770 is a recent development. That is probably due to it being an EOL product, although i'm speculating. For the most part, the GTX 770 was the value leader because it was cheaper than the 7970GE. That is obviously no longer the case, and I personally would like for it to be a value leader again. Right now it just isn't. At 350$? It's a done deal. I think the 770 would again be an attractive buy at that price point.

I mean -- I can say for certain that a 400$ 770 will lose sales to a 300$ 280X regardless of the minor clockspeed differences as compared to GE. If the 770 goes to 350$, nvidia can offset that. Wouldn't you agree? I think value in the sub 400$ segment is something that a lot of folks consider. Fact of the matter is that specific titles may favor certain architectures (for both AMD and NV) but overall, the 280X is roughly the same performance for 100 bucks less. At 50 bucks less, the 770 becomes really tempting again. Wouldn't you say? I think that NV can charge a "slight" premium due to NV's established software which I agree is better than AMD's. But not 100$. No way. 50$! Maybe.

 

[ams23]

@ blackened23: The GTX 770 was never $50-$70 cheaper than 7970 OC edition (which performs equally well as 7970 GHz Ed). The price of GTX 770 has always been at or above the ~ $400 price point. In fact, even today the cheapest GTX 770 is ~ $385 with MIR. So if memory serves me correctly, 7970 OC has been much cheaper than comparable offerings from NVIDIA for a long time.

Yes, a $50 discount to GTX 770 would be welcome, no argument there!

 

[yacoub]

Duopoly much? Let's stagger the releases so price drops = last models highest price. (580 = $550, Titan the successor = $1k) Dropping the price will still probably be above the MSRP of the last gen card. 770 is just the same as the 680 which is the 560 ti successor. If it hits $300 or less that's only the 560 TI normal price (after it's -680 been milked out from $500 for 1.5 years).

I agree it's a good thing but people "forget" they just raped everyone for the whole generation (both sides, but NV particularly badly) so the price "drops" are bring prices back to the last generations initial price.

Right. It's easy to drop the prices when they start off so ridiculously high.

 

[Carfax83]

As for NVIDIA, their cards have been priced higher (relatively speaking) for a long time now, so nothing new or remarkable there, but at least they offer different features (such as PhysX, HBAO+, etc) and a bit better performance in some NV-friendly games (such as Bioshock Infinite, Battlefield 3, Batman Arkham City and Origins, Crysis 3, Assassin's Creed 3, Borderlands 2, Call of Duty Black Ops 2, etc.).

This is what a lot of people criticizing NVidia's price points don't understand.

NVidia cards come with a lot more benefits and perks than AMD cards. With NVidia, you get:

1) PhysX

2) 3D Vision

3) Proper multi GPU functioning

4) IQ enhancement like HBAO+, TXAA etc..

5) NVidia surround

6) Better driver support for games and extended features.

That's why NVidia can get away with much higher prices than AMD, and believe me, people are paying because in their minds, AMD quality is not synonymous with NVidia quality.

That said, I definitely do believe NVidia need to lower their prices because the AMD cards are selling at such a low price point, that it will override people's good senses

 

[Carfax83]

Where is this long list of NV-specific modern games where 770 is crushing the R9 280X/7970Ghz cards?

Crysis 3, arguably the most beautiful PC game shows that 770 has nothing in it over R9 280X.

The Tech Report review used the slowest reference GTX 770 model with a clock speed of 1045, and reviewed it against aftermarket specimens from Asus and XFX..

Using an aftermarket GTX 770 with a higher clock and boost speed would have produced different results.. With that said:

I still find it funny that despite posting on Anandtech so frequently, you never use their benchmarks.. I wonder why? :sneaky:

 

[Shakabutt]

This is what a lot of people criticizing NVidia's price points don't understand.

NVidia cards come with a lot more benefits and perks than AMD cards. With NVidia, you get:

1) PhysX

2) 3D Vision

3) Proper multi GPU functioning

4) IQ enhancement like HBAO+, TXAA etc..

5) NVidia surround

6) Better driver support for games and extended features.

That's why NVidia can get away with much higher prices than AMD, and believe me, people are paying because in their minds, AMD quality is not synonymous with NVidia quality.

That said, I definitely do believe NVidia need to lower their prices because the AMD cards are selling at such a low price point, that it will override people's good senses

1.Gimick
2.Bigger Gimmick
3.I think the 7990 works pretty well with up to date drivers bro what are you talking about ? Nvidia has and had SLI hiccups too stop bullshiting.
4.So forcing ambient oclussion and some AA are determining factors when purchasing a GPU bro ? grasping at straws there aren't we ?
5. Eyefinity
6. Oh the "better driver" line...

 

[Erenhardt]

The Tech Report review used the slowest reference GTX 770 model with a clock speed of 1045, and reviewed it against aftermarket specimens from Asus and XFX..

Using an aftermarket GTX 770 with a higher clock and boost speed would have produced different results.. With that said:

I still find it funny that despite posting on Anandtech so frequently, you never use their benchmarks.. I wonder why? :sneaky:

770 beat 7970 and 280X without a drop of sweat... not even warmed up, easy win.