TPP Fast track

[dank69]

Can't wait for Obama to get on a national broadcast and explain in detail how these trade agreements are good for the working people of America.

But I ain't holding my breath 'til he does.

Here is the justification:

I want to set the record straight.

Right now, we have an opportunity to set the most progressive trade agreement in our nation's history -- with enforceable labor and environmental protections we simply can't count on other nations to pursue.

Here's why this means so much to me: I want to make sure that any deal we reach reflects our nation's values, in a way that hasn't always been true in the past. That's why I've said I'll refuse to sign any agreement that doesn't put American workers first.

But as long as 95 percent of our potential customers live outside our borders, we don't have the option to sit back and let others set the rules. We need to take this opportunity to level the playing field -- because when we're competing on equal ground, American workers win.

I've staked my presidency on middle-class economics, and fought hard for policies that ensure that anyone who's willing to work hard and play by the rules can get a fair shot.

We've made a lot of progress over the past six years -- rebounding from the worst economic crisis since the Great Depression, strengthening our manufacturing sector, and growing forward-looking industries like renewable energy.

We can't go back -- and we can't leave it to nations like China to write the rules for the global economy.

This is personal for me. I understand the skepticism about this, or any, trade deal. I've met folks across the country who still feel burned by agreements of the past. Those are the people I came to Washington to fight for.

That's what this is about for me. This is our chance to do better, to get it right.

I hope you'll agree. Over the last few months, supporters across the country have stood up to ask the hard questions on this issue -- to make sure the outcome is good not just for our economy, but for working families.

Thank you,

Barack Obama

 

[dank69]

I am trying to understand the real issue here. As I understand it, the fast track makes it so Congress cannot amend trade agreements that the President negotiates, they can only approve or reject it. I guess I don't understand why that is a bad thing.

Warren is saying that they are being asked to pass something without being able to read it. What exactly are they not able to read? The fast track legislation or the trade agreement itself? I don't understand why anything would have to be kept a secret. That doesn't make any sense.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

I am trying to understand the real issue here. As I understand it, the fast track makes it so Congress cannot amend trade agreements that the President negotiates, they can only approve or reject it. I guess I don't understand why that is a bad thing.

Warren is saying that they are being asked to pass something without being able to read it. What exactly are they not able to read? The fast track legislation or the trade agreement itself? I don't understand why anything would have to be kept a secret. That doesn't make any sense.

Fast track allows for simple majority and I believe Warrens point is its not available to the public, you or I cannot schedule an appointment to read it. Senators cannot bring phones (pictures) or copy any of the text, they have to sit in a room and read it.

 

[trenchfoot]

Here is the justification:

Much thanks for that. :thumbsup:

What I just read was not so much justification, but typical nebulous political rhetoric that skirts the real concerns of the American worker.

I understand that in any deal where all parties have their own best interests at heart, sacrifices have to be made by all said parties so that all may EQUITABLY benefit from the agreement.

Such is life.

However, as history has shown, the American worker has been burdened with the most sacrifices time and again when these trade agreements get brokered by our leaders, leaders that have allowed themselves to be corrupted by those that always seem to profit immensely every time these agreements get settled.

Along with the American worker, many of those laborers from the other countries that are participants of these deals also suffer, only they suffer from sweat shop working conditions and slave labor wages, conditions that are barred by law in our society.

So the only folks that seem to profit from these deals are our corrupt leaders that broker these deals and their big business buddies that broker our leader's election campaigns.

Like a lot of other shit sandwich deals that get passed in Washington, the devil is in the details of that unholy sandwich where the average American worker has to either pick out and survive on the undigested kernels of corn in it or eat the whole thing with a shit eating grin (grimace) and believe our leader's promises that it was made with our (their) best interests at heart.

 

[rudeguy]

Much thanks for that. :thumbsup:

What I just read was not so much justification, but typical nebulous political rhetoric that skirts the real concerns of the American worker.

I understand that in any deal where all parties have their own best interests at heart, sacrifices have to be made by all said parties so that all may EQUITABLY benefit from the agreement.

Such is life.

However, as history has shown, the American worker has been burdened with the most sacrifices time and again when these trade agreements get brokered by our leaders, leaders that have allowed themselves to be corrupted by those that always seem to profit immensely every time these agreements get settled.

Along with the American worker, many of those laborers from the other countries that are participants of these deals also suffer, only they suffer from sweat shop working conditions and slave labor wages, conditions that are barred by law in our society.

So the only folks that seem to profit from these deals are our corrupt leaders that broker these deals and their big business buddies that broker our leader's election campaigns.

Like a lot of other shit sandwich deals that get passed in Washington, the devil is in the details of that unholy sandwich where the average American worker has to either pick out and survive on the undigested kernels of corn in it or eat the whole thing with a shit eating grin (grimace) and believe our leader's promises that it was made with our (their) best interests at heart.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/201...-new-ethics-questions-on-role-in-boeing-deal/

 

[werepossum]

Much thanks for that. :thumbsup:

What I just read was not so much justification, but typical nebulous political rhetoric that skirts the real concerns of the American worker.

I understand that in any deal where all parties have their own best interests at heart, sacrifices have to be made by all said parties so that all may EQUITABLY benefit from the agreement.

Such is life.

However, as history has shown, the American worker has been burdened with the most sacrifices time and again when these trade agreements get brokered by our leaders, leaders that have allowed themselves to be corrupted by those that always seem to profit immensely every time these agreements get settled.

Along with the American worker, many of those laborers from the other countries that are participants of these deals also suffer, only they suffer from sweat shop working conditions and slave labor wages, conditions that are barred by law in our society.

So the only folks that seem to profit from these deals are our corrupt leaders that broker these deals and their big business buddies that broker our leader's election campaigns.

Like a lot of other shit sandwich deals that get passed in Washington, the devil is in the details of that unholy sandwich where the average American worker has to either pick out and survive on the undigested kernels of corn in it or eat the whole thing with a shit eating grin (grimace) and believe our leader's promises that it was made with our (their) best interests at heart.

I agree with much of that, but the foreign workers also benefit. There's a reason they jump to work in those conditions for that pay, and it's because it's a huge step up from their otherwise available opportunities. For many nations such as China, their corporations also benefit due to the way they structure their laws, demanding that the locals have a majority or equal share of the business. Within a decade or three, those foreign corporations no longer need the American corporations and rather than being a cheap source of labor, morph into lean, efficient, cutting edge competition.

We've adopted a massively short-sighted concept of free trade, and I for one do not wish to lift up foreign workers and corporations at the expense of American workers and corporations. We've taken our position as the most profitable, most desirable market in the world and largely sold it on the cheap. I say no new trade agreements, period.

 

[boomerang]

Well the Senate has reached an agreement that will allow the bill to move forward. I am very reassured to hear that this trade bill will be so much better than those that have come before it. It's easy to sleep well when one puts trust in government. It creates a warm and enveloping feeling to know that the mistakes of the past will not be repeated.

I just wish that the giant sucking sound in my ears would diminish.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

Well the Senate has reached an agreement that will allow the bill to move forward. I am very reassured to hear that this trade bill will be so much better than those that have come before it. It's easy to sleep well when one puts trust in government. It creates a warm and enveloping feeling to know that the mistakes of the past will not be repeated.

I just wish that the giant sucking sound in my ears would diminish.

Ugh you're correct.

 

[trenchfoot]

I agree with much of that, but the foreign workers also benefit. There's a reason they jump to work in those conditions for that pay, and it's because it's a huge step up from their otherwise available opportunities. For many nations such as China, their corporations also benefit due to the way they structure their laws, demanding that the locals have a majority or equal share of the business. Within a decade or three, those foreign corporations no longer need the American corporations and rather than being a cheap source of labor, morph into lean, efficient, cutting edge competition.

We've adopted a massively short-sighted concept of free trade, and I for one do not wish to lift up foreign workers and corporations at the expense of American workers and corporations. We've taken our position as the most profitable, most desirable market in the world and largely sold it on the cheap. I say no new trade agreements, period.

Now that you've mentioned it, I'm compelled to agree with you on that as well as the remainder of your post.:thumbsup:

 

[norseamd]

Warren is saying that they are being asked to pass something without being able to read it. What exactly are they not able to read? The fast track legislation or the trade agreement itself? I don't understand why anything would have to be kept a secret. That doesn't make any sense.

The trade agreement. And yes it is that bad that they are refusing to let everyone read it.

https://www.techdirt.com/blog/?tag=tpp

 

[blastingcap]

Due to Obama's position on the TPP, my respect for him has fallen. Oh wait, no it hasn't, because it was already at ZERO because of his abominably bad foreign policy.

The worst part is that whoever emerges as Prez in 2016 would probably also try similar stunts.

 

[rudeguy]

Due to Obama's position on the TPP, my respect for him has fallen. Oh wait, no it hasn't, because it was already at ZERO because of his abominably bad foreign policy.

The worst part is that whoever emerges as Prez in 2016 would probably also try similar stunts.

Foreign policy has devolved into either who we bomb or who we give our jobs to. It's not a right vs left thing, it's the way it's been for too long.

 

[norseamd]

Due to Obama's position on the TPP, my respect for him has fallen. Oh wait, no it hasn't, because it was already at ZERO because of his abominably bad foreign policy.

His foreign policies can be measured by comparing them to other presidents and what else is possible. His handling of the conflict with the Russians is not that bad and could be far worse actually. The Russians blew up hundreds of Dutch citizens and the EU is still stuttering and stumbling around like inept imbeciles. Granted America does not need the Russians for our natural gas but the more the Russians get the more they are going to want to take so the Europeans are going to have to be more assertive against the Russians.

That said his handling of the mass surveillance shit is a total fucking disaster. The international reputation loss of America is huge not counting what was left if anything at all.

 

[Linux23]

Foreign policy has devolved into either who we bomb or who we give our jobs to. It's not a right vs left thing, it's the way it's been for too long.

yep, The Empire of the United States.

 

[Brian Stirling]

Foreign policy has devolved into either who we bomb or who we give our jobs to. It's not a right vs left thing, it's the way it's been for too long.

This, in a NUTshell, is why we are on the down escalator!

And, both the right and the left are on board. Yeah, we get a little more push back from Dems as a whole, but when the bell sounds this bill will pass because pols from both parties got religion...


Brian

 

[Fanatical Meat]

Go here and let your representatives know how you feel

http://stopthetpp.org/

 

[waggy]

wait..

Foreign Corporations get veto power over U.S. laws? WTF that's insane.

 

[norseamd]

Foreign Corporations get veto power over U.S. laws? WTF that's insane.

Yes it is.

Corporate Personhood was not sufficient for them at all. Now they want their own Corporate Sovereignty to kick countries around with their bullshit.

 

[ivwshane]

So no one has yet to actually see this deal? Has congress seen it?

If not, then everything is pure speculation. If the details have been leaked then can someone post the details?

 

[Fanatical Meat]

So no one has yet to actually see this deal? Has congress seen it?

If not, then everything is pure speculation. If the details have been leaked then can someone post the details?

Congress can go to a special room in the White House(?) sit down and read it. That is all, they cannot copy it, bring it outside the room or copy text from it.
Point is we all know our government has proven itself ineffective at trade treaties lately. Seems like fast track is a good option because everyone can deny responsibility.
honestly why even bother with fast track, put it out, discuss and if its a good deal we'll sign. If the other countries don't like that process they can f-off. We should be driving this deal.

 

[norseamd]

If not, then everything is pure speculation. If the details have been leaked then can someone post the details?

The links to the other chapters of the TPP are on the left side.

https://wikileaks.org/tpp/

 

[nickqt]

wait..

Foreign Corporations get veto power over U.S. laws? WTF that's insane.

FreeMarket™ knows best, hallowed be its name.

 

[Victorian Gray]

FreeMarket™ knows best, hallowed be its name.

And promoted by your president. And this guy is supposed to be a communist?

 

[ivwshane]

The links to the other chapters of the TPP are on the left side.

https://wikileaks.org/tpp/

Oh damn! Looks like a how-to on prioritizing corporations over people. I like how countries who enact laws to protect citizens and the environment from harm will have to pay corporations for any loss in potential profits!

What exactly does Obama see in this? Sure it protects US IP but at the expense of everything else that a countries citizens might feel are important to them.


Thanks for the link, I didn't realize that it had been linked.

(I also noted that New Zealand has quite a few objections and proposed a few protections for its citizens, protections the US opposed).

 

[nickqt]

Oh damn! Looks like a how-to on prioritizing corporations over people. I like how countries who enact laws to protect citizens and the environment from harm will have to pay corporations for any loss in potential profits!

What exactly does Obama see in this? Sure it protects US IP but at the expense of everything else that a countries citizens might feel are important to them.


Thanks for the link, I didn't realize that it had been linked.

(I also noted that New Zealand has quite a few objections and proposed a few protections for its citizens, protections the US opposed).

Obama is a socially liberal centrist. He's a neoliberal, although to scare the useful idiots out of their money and vote, he's typecast as some sort of socialist/communist (!).

The last progressive President was Teddy Roosevelt.