Tool - 2016 Tour

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Brian Stirling

Diamond Member
Feb 7, 2010
4,000
2
0
The whole ticket selling business is 100% corrupt -- not 99.44% corrupt, 100% corrupt!

But, there's a reason this is so and not just because the scalpers are looking to make a buck. When you have a very limited commodity and way more people wanting it then it becomes a sellers game. This game benefits the folks with money as they are largely guaranteed a good seat if they're willing to shell out for it.

There's a reason the fronts rows of concerts and sporting events tend to be filled up with celebs and other wealthy people -- they let it be known they want good seats and the folks that have them make an offer. You and I might not be willing to pay $5K for $250 seats, but if you earn $10M a year what's $5K.

This game has been going on for a long time and even though there are occasional investigations and prosecutions the end result is someone else is doing the same game and for the same reasons -- limited supply.

I'd love to see Tool but it doesn't look like that's going to happen anytime soon.


Brian
 

Ns1

No Lifer
Jun 17, 2001
55,413
1,570
126
I'd love to see Tool but it doesn't look like that's going to happen anytime soon.

You are only limited by your ability to not try. Now if Tool was pulling a last tour ever in small club venues, I'd agree with you.
 

DigDog

Lifer
Jun 3, 2011
13,536
2,137
126
i'm shocked they still exist; they haven't made airplay since Lateralus.
 

NutBucket

Lifer
Aug 30, 2000
27,035
547
126
Airplay doesn't matter for bands with cult followings. See Grateful Dead and Phish, for example.
 

Brian Stirling

Diamond Member
Feb 7, 2010
4,000
2
0
You are only limited by your ability to not try. Now if Tool was pulling a last tour ever in small club venues, I'd agree with you.

If they come my way and there's nothing on the horizon that indicates they will then I'm sure I'll try. I might have better luck in a smaller market like SLC than someone in NYC but the deck is stacked against little guys.

And this is as I said before not limited to concerts ... check this story on this years Super Bowl.

http://money.cnn.com/2016/02/03/news/super-bowl-tickets-price/

You know the face value isn't that high -- right?


Brian
 

edro

Lifer
Apr 5, 2002
24,328
68
91
I hate the ticket system as much as anyone, but I don't have a solution.
Venues are a business and seats are limited. There is no fair, low cost way to supply tickets.

How to stop scalpers?
Limit sales to x# tickets with purchaser name printed on tickets and must show ID to enter show?
That would cause tons of issues with gifted tickets, last minute attendee changes, etc.

As much as I hate scalpers who buy all the tickets at launch, you can also play the game against them and buy last minute.
 

Fingolfin269

Lifer
Feb 28, 2003
17,948
31
91
I complain about scalpers all the time but recently became one myself. Scored 2 pairs to a local show that sold out near instantly. They cost me about $90/pair. The 2nd pair was supposed to go to a friend but he decided he wasn't interested. My plan was to just sell to someone else for face but was in no rush to do so and ended up listing them on Stubhub basically as a joke for $550/each ($1100/pair). I mean it was a joke in a sense but I noticed that there was some history of people paying ridiculous amounts for that show already but nothing that high. They sold.

Of course now I'm sitting here with another pair asking myself "Would you pay $1000 to see this show?".
 
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CraKaJaX

Lifer
Dec 26, 2004
11,905
148
101
I complain about scalpers all the time but recently became one myself. Scored 2 pairs to a local show that sold out near instantly. They cost me about $90/pair. The 2nd pair was supposed to go to a friend but he decided he wasn't interested. My plan was to just sell to someone else for face but was in no rush to do so and ended up listing them on Stubhub basically as a joke for $550/each. I mean it was a joke in a sense but I noticed that there was some history of people paying ridiculous amounts for that show already but nothing that high. They sold.

Of course now I'm sitting here with another pair asking myself "Would you pay $1000 to see this show?".

'If you can't beat'em, join'em'

I prefer beating them.
 

Ns1

No Lifer
Jun 17, 2001
55,413
1,570
126
'If you can't beat'em, join'em'

I prefer beating them.

I do both.

:D

I complain about scalpers all the time but recently became one myself. Scored 2 pairs to a local show that sold out near instantly. They cost me about $90/pair. The 2nd pair was supposed to go to a friend but he decided he wasn't interested. My plan was to just sell to someone else for face but was in no rush to do so and ended up listing them on Stubhub basically as a joke for $550/each ($1100/pair). I mean it was a joke in a sense but I noticed that there was some history of people paying ridiculous amounts for that show already but nothing that high. They sold.

Of course now I'm sitting here with another pair asking myself "Would you pay $1000 to see this show?".

what show was this?
 

tynopik

Diamond Member
Aug 10, 2004
5,245
500
126
If people are willing to pay $1000 for $90 tickets, the tickets are obviously being underpriced.

To ensure tickets are properly priced, then there needs to be some sort of auction system so everyone has a fair shot and the performer gets the money

That would cause tons of issues with gifted tickets, last minute attendee changes, etc.

airlines sell more tickets than all tours combined and deal with it (quite profitably)
 

Ns1

No Lifer
Jun 17, 2001
55,413
1,570
126
airlines sell more tickets than all tours combined and deal with it (quite profitably)

You can pay to re-book your flight if necessary. Cannot say the same about concerts.

To ensure tickets are properly priced, then there needs to be some sort of auction system so everyone has a fair shot and the performer gets the money

Ticketmaster already does this, which is how I ended up spending $240/ticket for Tool some 6 or 7 years ago. That was the day I vowed to never spend above face for tickets ever again.
 

tynopik

Diamond Member
Aug 10, 2004
5,245
500
126
You can pay to re-book your flight if necessary. Cannot say the same about concerts.

sure, you could pay to switch to another date in their tour

can't make any other dates/locations?

not their problem
 

Ns1

No Lifer
Jun 17, 2001
55,413
1,570
126
sure, you could pay to switch to another date in their tour

can't make any other dates/locations?

not their problem

this is why your proposal will never work on a large scale.
 

Ns1

No Lifer
Jun 17, 2001
55,413
1,570
126
never work how?

are you saying everyone in the country will refuse to buy tickets if they're non-refundable?

I'm saying it will severely decrease the profits to the tour promoters because less people will buy non-refundable, non-transferable tickets. It may even make tours more difficult to mount due to decreased pre-sale revenue.

Seriously, what does a concert promoter/ticketing agency gain by having non-transferable, non-refundable tickets? Nothing.
 
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tynopik

Diamond Member
Aug 10, 2004
5,245
500
126
I'm saying it will severely decrease the profits to the tour promoters because less people will buy non-refundable, non-transferable tickets. It may even make tours more difficult to mount due to decreased pre-sale revenue.

doubtful

Seriously, what does a concert promoter/ticketing agency gain by having non-transferable, non-refundable tickets? Nothing.

All the revenue from selling tickets to people who otherwise would have received those 'transferred' tickets

if it really bothers you, you can do the 'nfl ticket exchange' model where there is only one place you can legally sell your ticket
 

NutBucket

Lifer
Aug 30, 2000
27,035
547
126
Unless the group is so popular/venue so small that they want "normal" people to attend.

Basically the only people that benefit are the true fans. It would practically eliminate the secondary ticket market.

I present exhibit A: Rolling Stones playing a show at The Wiltern. That's the exact method they used. The person that bought the ticket had to be present but the guest could be anyone and a limit of two tickets. Even so, scalped tickets were ridiculous.
 

Ns1

No Lifer
Jun 17, 2001
55,413
1,570
126
All the revenue from selling tickets to people who otherwise would have received those 'transferred' tickets

Unless the group is so popular/venue so small that they want "normal" people to attend.

Basically the only people that benefit are the true fans. It would practically eliminate the secondary ticket market.

I present exhibit A: Rolling Stones playing a show at The Wiltern. That's the exact method they used. The person that bought the ticket had to be present but the guest could be anyone and a limit of two tickets. Even so, scalped tickets were ridiculous.

Yes, it works at small venues. MOST OF THE TIME.


Let's take one example here - Tool 2016 San Francisco, Night 1 + 2. Night 1 instantly sold out. Night 2 did not, but did end up selling out the same day.

Now, as it turns out the sell out was ONLY due to scalpers. Ticket prices dropped below face during the week of the shows. Scalpers ate it on this one, so in fact Night 1 + Night 2 was NOT a true sell out.

if we had a non transferable/non refundable model, scalpers would not have bought into Night 1 or Night 2.

Therefore, for a concert promoter, Option 1 with NO non transferable/non-refundable option is preferable.


To further this point with anecdotal evidence, I once ate 8 tickets to a NIN show in Vegas. With non refundable, non transferable tickets those 8 tickets would never have sold. The model which is being proposed here is less beneficial to the concert promoter. I might add that during this same concert, NIN did in fact issue non-transferable, non-refundable tickets to fans via their own presale website.
 

NutBucket

Lifer
Aug 30, 2000
27,035
547
126
Actually, I like that plan. The initial pre-sale tickets should have more restrictions.
 

Ns1

No Lifer
Jun 17, 2001
55,413
1,570
126
Actually, I like that plan. The initial pre-sale tickets should have more restrictions.

Yes, the NIN model works great - presale tickets directly to fans before the main on-sale, non-refundable non-transferable.

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