Tony Stewart killed a 20 year old dirt track driver....

[Humpy]

That's idiotic. It's a race track. He's not driving to work at 6am, sleepy, and trying to shave in his car. There's a yellow caution flag on the track. He didn't pick that time grab his cell phone and texting his friends about what he did last night. If you think any race car driver could be so unaware as to not see a person walking on the track, while going at city driving speeds...

It would be fair to add that he was on a race track where dirt had been flying up on to his helmet visor, with poor lighting. Also vision can be blocked by the wing and roll cage. Because of the HANS device and seat the driver can mostly only look directly ahead. Even at reduced speed on the tight corners of a short track there was only a brief period of time when his car/head was pointed directly at Ward. Some of that time the sight line may have been blocked by the #45 car.

 

[thedarkwolf]

That's going to be the truth that everyone strongly suspets, but only Stewart will know for certain. All Nascar can really do is make up some changes/new rules for getting out of your car.

Amazing how many people still seem to think Nascar had somethig to do with this race.

 

[cronos]

OP video
Tony Stewart HITS Sprint Car Driver Kevin Ward Jr (RAW VIDEO) Canandaigua Motorsports Park 8/9/1

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=_QJdBd0437U


then watch this one - he appears to run over his foot then accellerates
the sound seems to match up better with this video

Edit - link quit working for me - it did have comments disabled for some reason
but here's another with same difference audio-wise to match up when he accelerates
it paints a different picture - like it wasn't as intentional as the original

Still can't explain why he accelerated at all though - if it was after he hit him
except some type of sudden reaction after running him over ?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VJWTauPGp9g

If you compare these two videos, in the first one the sound of engine reffing is from the car in front of Tony's trying to avoid that guy, but in the second one it is from Tony's car right as he hit him.

It seems obvious to me that one of them has been edited.

 

[midwestfisherman]

So many ASS U mptions! Idiotic at that!

 

[xBiffx]

That's idiotic. It's a race track. He's not driving to work at 6am, sleepy, and trying to shave in his car. There's a yellow caution flag on the track. He didn't pick that time grab his cell phone and texting his friends about what he did last night. If you think any race car driver could be so unaware as to not see a person walking on the track, while going at city driving speeds...

Tell me that when you've been to one of these tracks. Better yet, tell me that when you've been behind the wheel of one of these cars at one of these tracks.

It has nothing to do with awareness, you simply can't be aware of that which you cannot see. Its pretty common sense actually.

 

[HumblePie]

If you compare these two videos, in the first one the sound of engine reffing is from the car in front of Tony's trying to avoid that guy, but in the second one it is from Tony's car right as he hit him.

It seems obvious to me that one of them has been edited.

Yep.

Same sound in two different places in the videos. First link has the engine revving sound well before Tony's vehicle is in frame and when the blue vehicle looks to accelerate. Second video has the same engine revving noise right as Tony's vehicle is making contact with Ward. Otherwise the audio is the same between the videos.

Hrmmm......

 

[Rinaun]

I still think while Ward was in the wrong, and I also know Tony won't be punished, Tony should be. As someone who has family with 20+ years of experience in sprint cars....its pretty obvious he was trying to spit mud at the kid in a non-verbal "LOL F U" way and it backfired immensely. That doesn't excuse Ward for being hotheaded and walking out on a dark, muddy track in a dark race suit against cars that might have their vision obscured.

To all of you saying shit about steering and stuff, aka "YOU HAVE TO THROTTLE TO STEER", you really need to drive one of these vehicles to understand how they work. Tony could have avoided him easily by either locking it up or swerving to the left and letting off the throttle. He misjudged the distance between him and Ward or Ward walked close enough that he was sulked under by the car now in a (starting) drift due to acceleration. From there, Ward was doomed; at 1:1 drive ratio, 800+HP on a muddy track, large tires, and a large diameter snug helmet..........it probably broke his neck instantly. Tony keeps going because I'm sure he thought he was clear and maybe a helmet hit him.

So this thread is pretty much about just arguing with trolls now? I know that isn't unusual for OT I am just surprised so many non-trolls are getting caught up in it.

-KeithP

Lol ATOT has been like this for a while now, where have you been? 4-5 months ago I complained the same way you did; a moderator suggested to use other subforums as this one is neffable now. It's just a giant troll baitfest in the larger threads on off-topic, deal with it by growing a skin or going to the more managed subforums.

 

[JM Aggie08]

I am the authority on the human psyche, as well as physics. My opinion is law.

 

[darkswordsman17]

If you compare these two videos, in the first one the sound of engine reffing is from the car in front of Tony's trying to avoid that guy, but in the second one it is from Tony's car right as he hit him.

It seems obvious to me that one of them has been edited.

I don't think it was necessarily edited in the way you think. The later video (where the revving happens in sync with the collision) is supposed to be the original unedited one. I think what happened on the others is that they were copies of the video that people uploaded after Youtube took it down. I've seen quite a few cases where videos like that get the sound desynced from the video. Its possible they were edited intentionally as well.

It would be fair to add that he was on a race track where dirt had been flying up on to his helmet visor, with poor lighting. Also vision can be blocked by the wing and roll cage. Because of the HANS device and seat the driver can mostly only look directly ahead. Even at reduced speed on the tight corners of a short track there was only a brief period of time when his car/head was pointed directly at Ward. Some of that time the sight line may have been blocked by the #45 car.

One of the other drivers said he saw the guy clearly. But then I've seen other reports that the guy in the blue and white car saw him just as he neared (although my guess is he's meaning more he didn't realize how far down the track the guy was as he did move further down the track just before then), which is why he slowed and moved down the track away from the guy (and why Stewart doing the complete opposite of that is suspicious, even if he was steering higher up to make sure he didn't hit the blue car there's no reason for him to accelerate).

And yes I've been at a track like this and have seen what the visibility is like out of one of these cars. Its obviously not great, but its more than enough that I'm not buying the explanation that Stewart didn't see him. Hell if it wasn't then the racing organization that regulates the design of these cars is just asking for shit like this to happen.

 

[Humpy]

And yes I've been at a track like this and have seen what the visibility is like out of one of these cars. Its obviously not great, but its more than enough that I'm not buying the explanation that Stewart didn't see him. Hell if it wasn't then the racing organization that regulates the design of these cars is just asking for shit like this to happen.

I agree that he had to have seen Ward. The question is when and if it left time to avoid (or left time to decide to fuck around a little and it went bad).

The video I've seen sucks and doesn't answer anything for me. What isn't questionable is Tony's talent and success/experience as a racer. Unless there is much clearer evidence presented I would tend to believe him if he said it was unavoidable.

 

[Ns1]

Hell if it wasn't then the racing organization that regulates the design of these cars is just asking for shit like this to happen.

not if drivers stay in their cars

 

[Rinaun]

I agree that he had to have seen Ward. The question is when and if it left time to avoid (or left time to decide to fuck around a little and it went bad).

The video I've seen sucks and doesn't answer anything for me. What isn't questionable is Tony's talent and success/experience as a racer. Unless there is much clearer evidence presented I would tend to believe him if he said it was unavoidable.

Actually, I have to disagree with the visibility argument. That is why I think Tony will get off completely fine and he is probably thanking whatever god he worships for that scenario and not the well-lit "oops killed a kid showing off" HD video scenario. It's obvious just turning the sound off in that video that he DOES accelerate and most professional sprint car racers know that causes the car to climb the bank due to tire differences and the banking+horsepower+tire treading.

P.S. treading is so important that before races I'd help trim in between grooves with a rubber removal tool for extra grip in muddy scenarios. These cars while on mud still can hook up pretty quick, ESPECIALLY after a few laps when all the real loose mud is missing from the main racing line.

 

[leeland]

I glazed through most of the posts and to give my two cents...

Watching videos in slow mo, it is my opinion that he intentionally wrecked that guy, drifting outward until he went into the wall. Watching is front wheels slowly squeeze that guy into the wall and once he knew he would hit he sharply cut them to the left to level out the car.

Now, if that was me I would know it would be a caution lap immediately and business would be as usual...just maintaining my position on yellow going around the track.

I would love for someone to tell me that TS wouldn't know that wreck is coming up as he went around the track and that he 'some how' didn't know to be on alert to either stuff being on the track or people...in that area. SO the people saying that he couldn't see because it was dark or the guy was wearing black I personally find ridiculous.

IMO, the guy getting out made a tough guy mistake by running up to the car...just stupid considering the environment.

To say that TS was totally caught off guard IMO is BS. Granted did he intend to kill the guy...I would think 99% of people would say no. That being said did he want to thumb his nose at some punk on a dirt track...I would say yah and that he did it thinking the guy would be standing on the edge of the race 'line'.

That guy appeared to me to get into that line which he might have not expected and then you have a 'oh shit' moment which led to the hit.

I don't see how all the other drivers are hugging tighter to the inside lane and he is on the outer lane...

If it was some boob driver then I would say he wasn't experienced enough...but a guy like a TS that has been racing at the highest level for so long, don't tell me he was caught off guard and that he didn't have any idea of what he was doing.

My opinion, he intentionally wrecked this guy for trying to go on the outside and the result after that has blame on both parties...especially the driver who got out...but for people to say TS didn't have blame is BS...

 

[lupi]

I glazed through most of the posts and to give my two cents...

Watching videos in slow mo, it is my opinion that he intentionally wrecked that guy, drifting outward until he went into the wall. Watching is front wheels slowly squeeze that guy into the wall and once he knew he would hit he sharply cut them to the left to level out the car.

Now, if that was me I would know it would be a caution lap immediately and business would be as usual...just maintaining my position on yellow going around the track.

I would love for someone to tell me that TS wouldn't know that wreck is coming up as he went around the track and that he 'some how' didn't know to be on alert to either stuff being on the track or people...in that area. SO the people saying that he couldn't see because it was dark or the guy was wearing black I personally find ridiculous.

IMO, the guy getting out made a tough guy mistake by running up to the car...just stupid considering the environment.

To say that TS was totally caught off guard IMO is BS. Granted did he intend to kill the guy...I would think 99% of people would say no. That being said did he want to thumb his nose at some punk on a dirt track...I would say yah and that he did it thinking the guy would be standing on the edge of the race 'line'.

That guy appeared to me to get into that line which he might have not expected and then you have a 'oh shit' moment which led to the hit.

I don't see how all the other drivers are hugging tighter to the inside lane and he is on the outer lane...

If it was some boob driver then I would say he wasn't experienced enough...but a guy like a TS that has been racing at the highest level for so long, don't tell me he was caught off guard and that he didn't have any idea of what he was doing.

My opinion, he intentionally wrecked this guy for trying to go on the outside and the result after that has blame on both parties...especially the driver who got out...but for people to say TS didn't have blame is BS...

Seems like a rather stupid comment. Just after the guy gets out of his car and starts walking back, there is one car that passes him at about same height up the track as stewart was traveling or possibly higher. After this car passes he then takes a couple steps down the width of the track.

 

[leeland]

Seems like a rather stupid comment. Just after the guy gets out of his car and starts walking back, there is one car that passes him at about same height up the track as stewart was traveling or possibly higher. After this car passes he then takes a couple steps down the width of the track.

Call my comment what you want...

I agree with you though. The guy who got out was to blame...he shouldn't have gotten out of the car to begin with...period.

I see all of these comments saying that TS wouldn't have seen that guy and I can't fathom how that couldn't be the case.

With all his years of experience, and just a general common sense of a wreck to say he wasn't careless in my opinion is like giving a person a free pass.

You have a nascar star racing against nobodies and to say he wouldn't have expected 'something' around that corner is foolish if you ask me.


I say this, not as a fan of racing, but just one of personal feeling...

If you watch a slow mo of that crash...imo his front wheels look to me like they are ever so softly to pushing that guy into the corner...and the millisecond that happens he cuts them sharply to correct. I think he did that intentionally...

The aftermath is suspect and left up to peoples conclusion.

 

[lupi]

Call my comment what you want...

I agree with you though. The guy who got out was to blame...he shouldn't have gotten out of the car to begin with...period.

I see all of these comments saying that TS wouldn't have seen that guy and I can't fathom how that couldn't be the case.

With all his years of experience, and just a general common sense of a wreck to say he wasn't careless in my opinion is like giving a person a free pass.

You have a nascar star racing against nobodies and to say he wouldn't have expected 'something' around that corner is foolish if you ask me.


I say this, not as a fan of racing, but just one of personal feeling...

If you watch a slow mo of that crash...imo his front wheels look to me like they are ever so softly to pushing that guy into the corner...and the millisecond that happens he cuts them sharply to correct. I think he did that intentionally...

The aftermath is suspect and left up to peoples conclusion.

you said "I would love for someone to tell me that TS wouldn't know that wreck is coming up as he went around the track and that he 'some how' didn't know to be on alert to either stuff being on the track or people...in that area. SO the people saying that he couldn't see because it was dark or the guy was wearing black I personally find ridiculous.

IMO, the guy getting out made a tough guy mistake by running up to the car...just stupid considering the environment.

To say that TS was totally caught off guard IMO is BS. Granted did he intend to kill the guy...I would think 99% of people would say no. That being said did he want to thumb his nose at some punk on a dirt track...I would say yah and that he did it thinking the guy would be standing on the edge of the race 'line'."

yet the video shows a previous vehicle as high or higher than stewart, that kinda disintegrates a large portion of the followup claims.

 

[OverVolt]

Other guy walked straight into Stewart he didn't even stop walking towards the car. What did he think he was going to do jump on Stewarts lap? Kick a moving cars tires?

 

[Humpy]

I glazed through most of the posts and to give my two cents...

Watching videos in slow mo, it is my opinion that he intentionally wrecked that guy, drifting outward until he went into the wall. Watching is front wheels slowly squeeze that guy into the wall and once he knew he would hit he sharply cut them to the left to level out the car.

Now, if that was me I would know it would be a caution lap immediately and business would be as usual...just maintaining my position on yellow going around the track.

He intentionally drifted outward to make the pass. It looked like a good clean pass. Racing isn't polite and sometimes it's up to the other guy to not wreck, back off a little, and try to get it back on the next lap.

I would love for someone to tell me that TS wouldn't know that wreck is coming up as he went around the track and that he 'some how' didn't know to be on alert to either stuff being on the track or people...in that area. SO the people saying that he couldn't see because it was dark or the guy was wearing black I personally find ridiculous.

He knew the caution was out. He wouldn't necessarily know why until he saw which car had wrecked and where. It's hard to say that he should have been alert to an angry guy jumping around on the track.

To say that TS was totally caught off guard IMO is BS. Granted did he intend to kill the guy...I would think 99% of people would say no. That being said did he want to thumb his nose at some punk on a dirt track...I would say yah and that he did it thinking the guy would be standing on the edge of the race 'line'.

That guy appeared to me to get into that line which he might have not expected and then you have a 'oh shit' moment which led to the hit.

I don't see how all the other drivers are hugging tighter to the inside lane and he is on the outer lane...

Did he not expect to encounter someone so close to the race line or is it BS that he was totally caught off guard? Seems contradictory.

I couldn't say one way or another. Just prior to the death Tony's car was in the frame for a fraction of a second, certainly not long enough to see a pattern or a change of direction/speed.

 

[leeland]

That is I guess where we disagree...

straight up...looking at the video...do you think he put him the wall on purpose or on accident? If you say that was a total accident that he put him into the wall then I would say you are pretty naive.

Regardless of your reply it doesn't matter. I personally think he caused that wreck on purpose. The guy is obviously skilled...and I think after watching the video it wasn't an accident...he put him into the wall.


The guy coming out and doing his deal led to his death...his fault, To say that he (TS) couldn't see him...well, that is the million dollar question. I would think a NASCAR champ would have been track aware and known his surroundings...to me to say he was caught off guard would go against everything this guy does all the time.

 

[BUTCH1]

That's total BS, there's no way Stewart didn't know that he put the guy in the wall. He made a deliberate move to do it. That generally pisses people off. From what I'd read Stewart and this guy had already had something between them, they had a history and didn't like each other.

Product of racing my ass. This also could have been avoided if Stewart had not done what he did. I agree Tony had no reason to be mad, but that doesn't matter. He had no reason to run the guy over either, but fact is he did that.

That might have been the speed most were going (although there's noticeable speed discrepancies) but they also accelerate very quickly (1400lb cars with 850hp engines, don't care if its on dirt or not they will hustle) and everything indicates that Stewart accelerated.



Damn that looks worse because that pretty clearly shows that he did accelerate. I thought the one that was going around before was off as the stuff I'd read the witness reports were that he gunned it right near where the collision happened which is why people were saying he did it on purpose.

Definitely looks like Stewart was trying to buzz the guy or maybe throw dirt on him by gunning it right as he went past but he fucked it up and hit him.

That does also answer what I was wondering before, Stewart did pull over and stop very shortly after.

I'm not buying the notion that TS was intent on "putting Ward in the wall", the contact was very slight and with the cars HP and the fact that it's always a "guesstimate" as to how far it will travel in any given corner that kind of contact is extremely common on dirt tracks. Beyond that he could (Ward) have backed off a bit and let TS slide past instead of churning through the corner 2 feet from the wall hoping TS's car doesn't slide that extra foot or so and make contact. I'm also LOL'ing at those who claim that the throttle blip was not from TS's car when his sideways movement and the revving sound are in perfect sync.

 

[OverVolt]

Stewart was definitely blocking an outside pass. It takes two for a crash like that. Ward wasn't backing down. Stewart didn't put Ward into the wall per se, he was closing off Wards ability to pass.

I guess don't try to pass Stewart on the outside. Get the inside line and do the same thing to him, if he can catch back up. Tis racing.

I don't think he lost control of his car he was going for a pass he couldn't actually make. Reminds me of Ayrton Senna and his "If you don't go for a gap you aren't a racer." The older I get it seems racing is a dumber and dumber idea.

 

[Humpy]

straight up...looking at the video...do you think he put him the wall on purpose or on accident?

Neither. Being that I don't believe he "put him in the wall" I think that is a false dilemma. It looked to me like he put himself in the wall. Did Tony give a shit what happened after he first got by Ward? For some reason I doubt it.

Remove any assumption that Tony wrecked the guy on purpose (there is no reason to believe he did) or was upset in any way during the race and the idea that he might of ran him over somewhat on purpose goes away too.

 

[cronos]

I don't think it was necessarily edited in the way you think. The later video (where the revving happens in sync with the collision) is supposed to be the original unedited one. I think what happened on the others is that they were copies of the video that people uploaded after Youtube took it down. I've seen quite a few cases where videos like that get the sound desynced from the video. Its possible they were edited intentionally as well.

It just seemed extremely fishy to me. If it is a natural de-syncing of audio and video it would have very little chance for the two to be *exactly* matched to two different events. One of them clearly was staged, and it could be either one, for obviously the opposite reasons.

The fact that the first video had to actually include the word 'unedited' in the title is also a little suspicious. Nobody does something like that unless a. the poster knew that there was an edited version going around and wanted to be sure that its version is known as the legitimate one, or b. it was intentionally released after it was edited to implicate TS, and marked as 'unedited' to discredit other legitimate videos (and helped the case against TS).

 

[KillerBee]

Well the second does show an extra 15 seconds at the end
so it would be hard to be an edited copy of the OP with 5 million views.

No telling who posted the original-original video
the second one just seems to be a better copy /synced than the OP

I read they do now have another alternate video they have been looking at
and still have not pressed any charges.

 

[Smoblikat]

Regardless of intentions, who in their right mind walks out into the middle of a DARK field at night, during a race on dirt where its more difficult to swerve out of the way?