Tony Stewart killed a 20 year old dirt track driver....

[edro]

What makes a civil suit possible if there's no criminal charges?

They could file a civil suit today because Tony's car killed him.

It would be up to judge whether or not to allow the case, and up to the jury if Tony was responsible for the guy's death.

 

[Humpy]

Question for the knowledgeable sprint car fans - don't they have communication headsets in those helmets? Doesn't his pit crew talk to him during the race, alert him to things? If it's allowed, I can't imagine it not being used by a professional. Hell, I've seen some of the better racers on the local motocross circuits using them. If they're allowed, only a fool would believe he didn't already know who wrecked, and who was on the track. And, these guys are racing - under a caution, they're not lolligagging around - they're paying close attention to the track. Hit the wrong piece of debris with your car & you've taken yourself out of the race. So, on both accounts, you'd have to be incredibly gullible to believe he didn't see him until the last second.

I'm 99% sure that, unlike NASCAR, driver to crew radio's are not allowed in this form of sprint car racing.

 

[LTC8K6]

What makes a civil suit possible if there's no criminal charges?

You don't need any criminal charges to bring a civil lawsuit.

If you did, there would probably be about 99% less civil lawsuits.

 

[xBiffx]

There were no cameras mounted on either car.

I've heard reports that Stewart raced with a GoPro camera. I haven't been able to verify that and it might just be from people shilling for those products. Given the investigators are still asking for any third party videos, I doubt that a camera existed. Would be pretty definitive if there was though.

 

[shortylickens]

What makes a civil suit possible if there's no criminal charges?

The two are different.

You could be found liable of wrongful death even if the DA decided there was not enough evidence for murder or manslaughter. The evidence required for civil suits is much lower than criminal.

In fact thats how they got OJ simpson. Wrongful death suit after he was acquitted for Nicole Browns murder.

 

[LTC8K6]

I've heard reports that Stewart raced with a GoPro camera. I haven't been able to verify that and it might just be from people shilling for those products. Given the investigators are still asking for any third party videos, I doubt that a camera existed. Would be pretty definitive if there was though.

I read it in one of the news reports, but I do not remember which. They said neither car had a camera mounted on it.

 

[HumblePie]

The two are different.

You could be found liable of wrongful death even if the DA decided there was not enough evidence for murder or manslaughter. The evidence required for civil suits is much lower than criminal.

In fact thats how they got OJ simpson. Wrongful death suit after he was acquitted for Nicole Browns murder.

Only in states that allow for it. Not every places allows is civil suit in the case of a homicide unless there was a criminal conviction for something in regards to the homicide.

 

[shortylickens]

Only in states that allow for it. Not every places allows is civil suit in the case of a homicide unless there was a criminal conviction for something in regards to the homicide.

thats true, its based on state law.

 

[LTC8K6]

Nearly all civil cases are settled before trial.

 

[Number1]

My 29 years old neffew died in an accident today. I have yet to find out the details but OMF, you don't expect to loose them so young. It hurt so much.
The hole family is devastated.


I find myself in the Same kind of situation as the Ward familly today, having lost a beloved family member.


My hearth goes out to the Ward family for such a tragic loss, I can feel their pain.

 

[darkswordsman17]

I'll have to go back through the thread, but from what I see, at minimum they should bring manslaughter charges against Stewart. Now guilt will have to be determined based on the evidence they can provide and the arguments made, but I don't know how charges won't be brought (even if there's liability releases that drivers have to sign, I don't see how it could prevent legal proceedings in a situation like this).

Elsewhere, I can't believe people are arguing that Stewart might not have seen the guy or that he tried to brake or anything other than its clear Stewart gunned it causing the back end to swing out. And there's no way you can excuse it as unfamiliarity, Stewart has a lot of experience driving these types of cars on these types of tracks, he knew exactly how the car would react and he was not swerving or braking to miss the guy.

I have no doubt Stewart did not intend to harm the guy at all. My guess, Stewart just intended to throw dirt on the guy after seeing him out on the track, and just fucked up, be it from his hotheadedness clouding his judgement or just not realizing how far down the guy was (although that seems hard to buy since the guy made his move(s) down the track well ahead of when Stewart's car was there, and I don't see anything indicating he moved further into his path once Stewart was there).

Yes, you're an idiot if you stay or go onto a track out of your car, and even moreso for approaching other cars, so yes he was wrong for doing that, but in no way does that absolve Stewart's actions.

My guess is that they probably won't end up bringing charges against him, but the family will sue his balls off. Will be curious to see what action racing organizations take.

 

[HumblePie]

I'll have to go back through the thread, but from what I see, at minimum they should bring manslaughter charges against Stewart. Now guilt will have to be determined based on the evidence they can provide and the arguments made, but I don't know how charges won't be brought (even if there's liability releases that drivers have to sign, I don't see how it could prevent legal proceedings in a situation like this).

Elsewhere, I can't believe people are arguing that Stewart might not have seen the guy or that he tried to brake or anything other than its clear Stewart gunned it causing the back end to swing out. And there's no way you can excuse it as unfamiliarity, Stewart has a lot of experience driving these types of cars on these types of tracks, he knew exactly how the car would react and he was not swerving or braking to miss the guy.

I have no doubt Stewart did not intend to harm the guy at all. My guess, Stewart just intended to throw dirt on the guy after seeing him out on the track, and just fucked up, be it from his hotheadedness clouding his judgement or just not realizing how far down the guy was (although that seems hard to buy since the guy made his move(s) down the track well ahead of when Stewart's car was there, and I don't see anything indicating he moved further into his path once Stewart was there).

Yes, you're an idiot if you stay or go onto a track out of your car, and even moreso for approaching other cars, so yes he was wrong for doing that, but in no way does that absolve Stewart's actions.

My guess is that they probably won't end up bringing charges against him, but the family will sue his balls off. Will be curious to see what action racing organizations take.

Uh, you don't know how the law works do you in most places?

Just because there is a homicide doesn't meant charges are always filed. There is police investigation. The police find any evidence they can of any possible criminal activity related to a homicide. Anything they find, and don't find is presented to the DA's office. The DA's office decides based upon the investigation to file charges of criminal conduct by any party involved. If there isn't evidence to support a manslaughter charge found by the police investigation then there won't be any charges brought by the prosecution, usually. Although technically the prosecution can still file for criminal charges even with no evidence, it won't go very far in court though without any supporting evidence found by police investigation.

 

[Miramonti]

My 29 years old neffew died in an accident today. I have yet to find out the details but OMF, you don't expect to loose them so young. It hurt so much.
The hole family is devastated.


I find myself in the Same kind of situation as the Ward familly today, having lost a beloved family member.


My hearth goes out to the Ward family for such a tragic loss, I can feel their pain.

Ouch. My condolences.

 

[Miramonti]

What are you even talking about?

How am I trolling? I'm relating personal experiences driving where something that should NOT be in your way and you panic.

People have chosen to hate tony stewart simply because he's famous, has more money than them, is an old white guy with money, and he's obviously a redneck because he races cars. All these misconceptions from millions of internet trolls are just based on dislike for him because of their own miserable existence is sad in comparison to his seemingly awesome life, and have nothing to do with who Tony Stewart actually is as a person, and while I don't hope for charges, I also don't hope for a quick termination of the investigation before assessing all of the evidence.

Watch the whole video that shows the initial crash, that doesn't look like he intentionally put the guy into the wall. He probably knew a collision happened but it's simply because the moron tried to pass him up high while he was already too high up the track. Everyone is making this out to be like stewart wrecked the guy trying to kill him then went back around a 200 mph to finish the job. None of that happened.

My point was that you're making as many assumptions [based on irrelevant experiences] as those you claim are trolling.

What concerns me the most about this situation is whether or not he tried to spray mud or gun his engine to say 'FU', yet inadvertently spun out and wound up killing him. I believe no one at this point can know either way wtf happened and what Stewarts intentions/actions were. Doing either of these things while accidentally killing him definitely isn't worthy of a murder charge, but would certainly border on a possible wreckless homicide or manslaughter charge imo. It's worth a thorough investigation with all available evidence and statements.

 

[Brian Stirling]

And what, exactly, would that be?

Tony's not just a NASCAR Sprint Cup driver, he drives pretty much anything they let him -- he's a racer through and through.

But, if they can prove he made an aggressive move towards the kid then his career may well be over and he may wind up behind bars. I doubt it but it is possible.

And, if he is held liable in a criminal way you can bet NASCAR will be working overtime with there lawyers to draft regulations that tighten up the tough guy stuff I mentioned before. OTH, they may not wish to publicize the fact that they've been lacking in this regard and simply penalize drivers for the things that bumped the ratings in the past.

When you market the sport as a kind of WWE of racing with Type A+++ drivers what do you expect to happen...


Brian

 

[Number1]

Ouch. My condolences.

Thanks, Much apreciated.

 

[Hugo Drax]

That guy getting out of his vehicle and doing what he did was totally reckless, what the hell is wrong with him.

he should have stayed in the safety of the vehicle until the race recovery guys get the wrecker or flatbed out to him.

 

[sao123]

When I watch the video in slow motion on youtube, it is clear that Tony's car does not swerve or move off his line until impact with Ward was made. The swerve is the result of the tires driving over uneven surfaces. In this case, 3 tires are connected with the road, and the fourth tire is connected with Ward's body. That will cause the swerve seen in the video. The video also shows that no new acceleration was made by Tony's car in that turn either as the distance per frame the vehicle travels does not increase. Lack of distance traveled = no acceleration prior to impact.

The engine "gunning" noise people supposedly hear could be from any other vehicle on the track. Most likely from a closer vehicle to the camera man and not Tony's car on the far side of the turn away from the camera man. It could have been the engine of the safety crew trying desperately to get to Ward to stop him in order to save him from himself. Considering the safety crew is coming from where the camera man sits, this is the most likely possibility for the increased engine noise.

I do not see any indication when I watch the video frame by frame of any action taken by Tony that could be seen as anything that would have resulted in this tragedy. He neither sped up, not throttled the engine when next to Ward. Ward can me seen as coming clearly into the line of his vehicle on the track.

:thumbsup:
How dare you try to supplant their righteous indignation and anger with your facts... :hmm:

 

[waggy]

My point was that you're making as many assumptions [based on irrelevant experiences] as those you claim are trolling.

What concerns me the most about this situation is whether or not he tried to spray mud or gun his engine to say 'FU', yet inadvertently spun out and wound up killing him. I believe no one at this point can know either way wtf happened and what Stewarts intentions/actions were. Doing either of these things while accidentally killing him definitely isn't worthy of a murder charge, but would certainly border on a possible wreckless homicide or manslaughter charge imo. It's worth a thorough investigation with all available evidence and statements.

seems to me a bunch of people are jumping to conclusions based off a 2 second clip.

 

[shabby]

But, if they can prove he made an aggressive move towards the kid then his career may well be over and he may wind up behind bars. I doubt it but it is possible.

If his past aggressive behavior is brought up he's a dead duck.

 

[darkswordsman17]

Uh, you don't know how the law works do you in most places?

Just because there is a homicide doesn't meant charges are always filed. There is police investigation. The police find any evidence they can of any possible criminal activity related to a homicide. Anything they find, and don't find is presented to the DA's office. The DA's office decides based upon the investigation to file charges of criminal conduct by any party involved. If there isn't evidence to support a manslaughter charge found by the police investigation then there won't be any charges brought by the prosecution, usually. Although technically the prosecution can still file for criminal charges even with no evidence, it won't go very far in court though without any supporting evidence found by police investigation.

Uh, don't know why you're copping such a dipshit tone, but yes I am aware of how it is, and based on the evidence so far (which is more than just the video by the way), it seems that minimum they should bring manslaughter charge. They very well might not claiming they wouldn't have enough evidence to make a case.

But by all means explain to me exactly how things work. You left out all the exact forensic science they'd utilize.

When I watch the video in slow motion on youtube, it is clear that Tony's car does not swerve or move off his line until impact with Ward was made. The swerve is the result of the tires driving over uneven surfaces. In this case, 3 tires are connected with the road, and the fourth tire is connected with Ward's body. That will cause the swerve seen in the video. The video also shows that no new acceleration was made by Tony's car in that turn either as the distance per frame the vehicle travels does not increase. Lack of distance traveled = no acceleration prior to impact.

The engine "gunning" noise people supposedly hear could be from any other vehicle on the track. Most likely from a closer vehicle to the camera man and not Tony's car on the far side of the turn away from the camera man. It could have been the engine of the safety crew trying desperately to get to Ward to stop him in order to save him from himself. Considering the safety crew is coming from where the camera man sits, this is the most likely possibility for the increased engine noise.

I do not see any indication when I watch the video frame by frame of any action taken by Tony that could be seen as anything that would have resulted in this tragedy. He neither sped up, not throttled the engine when next to Ward. Ward can me seen as coming clearly into the line of his vehicle on the track.

Now my time to act like a dipshit. Ya see, the thing is, they have this stuff called eyewitness reports (you know when police are investigating, they sometimes like to ask people that were there what happened). I believe they have people saying that Stewart gunned the engine there.

The video doesn't provide enough to say how things went exactly since his car appears onscreen just after the engine revving noise, which looks to me that he accelerated just before the car is onscreen in that clip. You should notice how much his car moves up the track as he struck him, which generally is a sign that the car was steered there. Its a drastic move and is not just from the change in drive from when his tire struck the guy. Watch the video again, at the start Tony's car is fairly low down on the track (bottom half easily) but within a very short length its up almost as high as the guy's wrecked car is, partly because hitting the guy caused the car to shift, but it was already moving up the track, which definitely looks like he was steering at the guy (considering the wrecked car was also up there, which he'd be steering away from). Actually just the fact that the car immediately pitched the way it did indicates to me he was steering it right, as if he was steering away from the guy the car would have smeared him even more, or would have oversteered in the opposite direction once he hit him). As for the sound, it sounds like a quick stab of the throttle. The sound is definitely not emergency personnel, that is how those (sprint) cars sound under throttle. Plus its a quick stab of throttle, which the emergency vehicle you'd hear a sustained sound of the engine as it roared down the track.

The other thing, and again we can't tell from the video but I'd be curious what Stewart's reaction was. He had to know he hit the guy. My first reaction to hitting someone, regardless of it being on a racetrack or on a normal road, would be to pull over and stop ASAP. Maybe he did, or maybe he wanted to be out of the way of emergency responders, so it might not be a big deal.

Another driver that was there said he saw the guy clearly so I don't buy the visibility aspect unless Stewart wasn't paying attention (in which case he should not be on a track).

 

[zinfamous]

I don't know much about professional left turning, and I know even less about professional left turning on dirt tracks. But, I can't imagine that Tony's plan was to hit the guy and kill him.

Looks to me like he wanted to buzz the idiot, but the vehicle slipped, because, dirt. That doesn't exclude Stewart from being a prick for that, and certainly not for responsibility (vehicular manslaughter, probably), but I can't imagine him actually wanting to hit the dude--not that I know anything about this Tony Stewart.

On top of that, the dude that got killed isn't free of responsibility in his own death here. Looks like two dumb idiots playing stupid dumb idiot games and losing.

 

[ctark]

To make a quick left turn in a sprint car you have to gas it. They have completely different steering boxes than a regular car. They almost work like a jetski. They wont turn unless you use the gas.

Also you'll see his car turn right after he hits the guy. This is because he back wheel lost traction from the guy being under it. So many people here that dont know how a sprint car works, or anything about racing in general. Tony wouldn't fuck around like that. The kid was stupid for coming down on the track.

Regardless of what happens, this will haunt Tony for the rest of his life.

 

[edro]

I'm sick of the Tony was a "hot head" so he must have done it intentionally argument.

They're all aggressive and hot headed while racing!

 

[GagHalfrunt]

To make a quick left turn in a sprint car you have to gas it. They have completely different steering boxes than a regular car. They almost work like a jetski. They wont turn unless you use the gas.

Bullshit. Sprint cars are set up to do nothing except turn left. The tire stagger and suspension settings make the car turn left with no input at all.