TomsHardware: Core i7-3970X Extreme Review: Can It Stomp An Eight-Core Xeon?

Discussion in 'CPUs and Overclocking' started by Idontcare, Nov 11, 2012.

  1. Idontcare

    Idontcare Elite Member

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    They've been down this road before, both companies, of crafting 2-socket mobos for the enthusiast segment and the bottom line is that they just don't sell very well.

    AMD did it and it was called the "quad-father" (two dual-core CPUs) at the time, it performed ok but it pushed the power usage numbers to ludicrous levels and thus became a pariah for that reason.

    I suspect an enthusiast-level dual socket FX-8350 platform would be similarly castigated by the enthusiast community, sadly, and that concern alone probably torpedoes the idea at the drawing board.

    For the HPC and workstation markets, where performance truly matters in the economic sense, overclocking is out anyways so those platforms are going to be based on Xeons and Opterons which already have their own dual-socket platforms.

    It is just the minor segment of at-home OC'ers who are into this stuff and it would appear that for most of us when we say we are "into it" that really mean we "like to read about it", which translates into very few sales. If you know your platform volume is going to be low then it becomes harder and harder to justify the expense of crafting niche products like enthusiast-class dual-socket mobos (skulltrail for example).
     
  2. lamedude

    lamedude Golden Member

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    SNB-E can do 125,166, or 250MHZ BCLCK.
    31-38*125=3.8-4.7GHZ
     
  3. Makaveli

    Makaveli Diamond Member

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    Do FX chips even have the correct hypertransport setup to support Dual socket workstation board?

    That is usually the difference with the opteron and xeons!
     
  4. Nemesis 1

    Nemesis 1 Lifer

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    YA i was a bit high there, I gave type of numbers you give befor the release of every AMD processor.

    If I took a 3770K and overclocked it to the same power usage as the amd . The intel cpu would be running around 4.4ghz when you equalize power out of the socket .. The Best metric is power usage . Time of Work is user choice but intel would have a huge advantage here. Now you could argue were talking stock. But than I would point to Amd sales numbers and profits. Ya the 8 core amd chip is fast but its a power hog. For the same power usage intel users have way better performance In hardware forums that is. The people speak with their money . Thats not going so well for Amd
     
    #29 Nemesis 1, Nov 13, 2012
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2012
  5. njdevilsfan87

    njdevilsfan87 Golden Member

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    That is not something you can do on SNB-EP unfortunately.
     
  6. inf64

    inf64 Platinum Member

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    Funny that 8350 has been constantly sold out at newegg. So much for not going so well for AMD. I'm willing to say that AMD will exceed their sales expectation with Vishera line,far outselling FX8/6/4 series this and next year.
     
  7. AdamK47

    AdamK47 Lifer

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    Unfortunately, base clocks of 125, 166, and 250 do not work on the Xeons. I'd have one if they did.
     
  8. AtenRa

    AtenRa Lifer

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    The Quad Father was the first true x86 quad core CPU, the Phenom I (i have a T-shirt from Cebit 2008). The dual socket was in the Athlon FX era.

    Edit: Nope i was wrong, it was the dual Socket ;)
     
    #33 AtenRa, Nov 13, 2012
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2012
  9. Makaveli

    Makaveli Diamond Member

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    Sales alone doesn't guarantee anything.

    If you price stuff cheap enough people will buy it.

    I'm not saying it isn't a good cpu for the price you pay.

    You cannot look at sales numbers alone.
     
  10. inf64

    inf64 Platinum Member

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    Well its price is positioned in the market "sweet spot" ** It's not overpriced nor under priced And debating whether AMD gets any money is absurd** I remember someone once did a calculation on production costs at Ace's HW forum and it turned out AMD payed from 45-65$ per good die** I see no reason why this would have changed especially now that AMD has zero investments in process nodes and only pays for good dies now**

    When you sell that chip for ~150-200 bucks it certainly is not losing money** And then you sell same die in other form(server) for 5x more,you do the math whether they lose money or earn money** Margins are low and that is true ,but that is because AMD sells a lot of cheap CPUs(cheap dual and even quad core APUs for OEM machines) at bargain prices and they make a large part of their shipments**

    PS Forum is acting up, we have a lot of ** in our posts**
     
    #35 inf64, Nov 13, 2012
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2012
  11. Edrick

    Edrick Golden Member

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    You are not taking into account all the R&D, packaging, overhead costs that go into making the product** Yes AMD is making some money, but not even close to where they want to be**
     
  12. Ben90

    Ben90 Platinum Member

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    I'm amazed they still see a market for 130W+ CPUs in the desktop space** CMON 200W Haswell!
     
  13. mrmt

    mrmt Diamond Member

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    First AMD is certainly not happy with GLF pricing and execution otherwise they wouldn't have shelled out 600 million to get out of the contract with them** That means bad yields or very high costs, to the point that AMD sees more than 600 million in gains from breaking up with GLF**

    Second, your numbers for costs aren't too off mark but your revenues estimates are** Assumming that AMD sold 11 million units at the confirmed 38% gross margins, this means $54 COGS per chip and ASP of $87 per chip, servers included**

    AMD certainly isn't losing money on the FX 8350 but you can be pretty sure that AMD cannot sell them to retailers and distributors at $150-$200, it's way less, plus I wouldn't be so sure on them making much money, if any, on the FX 4xx0 (which shares the same 8xx0 die) or the single module Trinity, which shares the same 246mm^2 5800k die**
     
  14. skipsneeky2

    skipsneeky2 Diamond Member

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    Intel has popped another prescott out of the oven!

    150wtdp and not very much quicker then its predecessor let alone a $600 3930k@#@#@#@#@#@#@#@#how is this thing even appealing with a whopping 150w tdp?

    I sense a bulldozer @#@#@#ment in@#@#@#ing as most are gonna exclaim those are the prescott chips!
     
  15. Makaveli

    Makaveli Diamond Member

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    How is it another prescott when its the highest performing Desktop processor they have to offer?

    Prescott never held that title@#@# And if we assume your argument is about heat prescott never offered the performance for its heat generated, you cannot say the same about SB-E@#@#

    Extreme edition cpu's are ment for those that want the best of the best and can afford it@#@#

    Its obviously not in the market for alot of us yet you don't see me going to the lambo forum and @#@#@#plaining about the price :p
     
  16. skipsneeky2

    skipsneeky2 Diamond Member

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    Will reply with 2 words@#@#@#@#@#@#@#@#@#@#

    150w tdp,price well the smart ones are buying a 3930k,like you were the smart one buying the 970 over the 980x@#@#:thumbsup:

    Twice the tdp of a 3570k@#@#@#@#@#@#@#@#a measily 200mhz jump over the 3960x@#@#
     
  17. ShintaiDK

    ShintaiDK Lifer

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    Atleast they dont have try and fake it by calling it ACP.
     
  18. Makaveli

    Makaveli Diamond Member

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    hehe I can't even see the reply with all these random characters in the post@#@#

    someone please fix the forum@#@#

    But I think were on the same page@#@#
     
  19. blckgrffn

    blckgrffn Diamond Member

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    I thought it was me! Holy crap is it goofed to hell around here....
     
  20. cytg111

    cytg111 Platinum Member

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    ** all your pointers are pointing .. back in your face .. It's the forums way of saying, enough with flame** allready, god**it.
     
  21. skipsneeky2

    skipsneeky2 Diamond Member

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    Wonder how long it will be before 6 core comes with a mainstream price in the $200-$300 range?

    I suspect when the time for a mainstream affordable 6 core comes out from intel,they might release a low stockclocked model perhaps on a new stepping without ht and sell it for about $300 or so.

    Sorta might happen like when the g0 stepped e6750 and q6600 came out.
     
  22. tweakboy

    tweakboy Diamond Member

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    This is retarded ... their comparing the 8 core xeon which might not OC well.. to a stock Sandy E 6 core, how about a 4.8Ghz Sandy ,, what can the Xeon do about that ?

    I think the this Sandy Bridge when OCed will come much closer to a xeon latest 8 core 16 threads,, vs 12 threads sandy,,,,, only a OC can lift the Sandy near the Xeon right guys ?

    I dont like how the benchmark is based on such a low clock speed for both,, I dont know about XEON OCing, but Sandy @ 3.5 come on........ my dads Sandy is 4.2Ghz for petes sake.......

    Overall I think the fact the Sandy E extreme can take 128GB RAM .. I know the latest intel chip 6 core 12 thred can take 128GB RAM ............ where normally you cant go higher then 32GB right now. Soo RAM is the only reason to go server route,, and I don't think you need more then 128GB RAM ,,,,,,,

    If I had the money and the server XEON can overclock like a sandy E , I would take the XEON hands down as champ! fastest processor......... how about dual socket ,,,, lol rich peep get that stuff lol
     
    #47 tweakboy, Nov 13, 2012
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2012
  23. minitron

    minitron Member

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    More bad math.:whiste:

    The i7 completing the task in 79% of the time it would take the FX which is not the same as the i7 being 21% faster.

    I guess I must use an example for AMD fanboy:
    Assuming constant speed and no acceleration...
    Car A travels 1/4 Mile in 12 seconds
    Car B travels 1/4 Mile in 24 seconds

    Car A is not 50% faster than Car B (12/24)
    Car A is 100% faster than Car B (24/12)

    Or you can just try to do the reverse equation (for your terrible math) in which case 91.5 x 1.21 =/= 116.

    Edumacations, go gets thems?!?
     
    #48 minitron, Nov 13, 2012
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2012
  24. inf64

    inf64 Platinum Member

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    You cannot get it,give up man.It's just over your head...
     
  25. Abwx

    Abwx Diamond Member

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    So if the 8350 is at 100% and the i7 as in your exemple at 79% ,
    how much less time in % does is take to do the task ????

    When looking at the faster CPU we start from 116 , that is
    from the slower to the faster , so 116 will be the base , hence
    the i7 will be 24.5/116 x 100 = 21.1% faster.

    When computing by how much the slowest is slower , we go from 91.5 to 116 , that is, from faster to slower , as such the faster, 91.5 , will be the base , this time the 8350 will be 24.5/91.5 x 100 = 26.77% slower....

    Inf64 is right , you understand nothing at basic maths
    since you dont even realise that the faster realize the lowest
    absolute number while the slowest do the higher absolute number.


    I sense some uncontrolled convolution in an imaginary domain...
     
    #50 Abwx, Nov 13, 2012
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2012