"Tom Brady prefer his balls to feel a certain way" - balls underinflated

[emperus]

Informative Read.

Judge Continues To Put NFL On Defensive In "Deflategate" Hearing

In the latest “Deflategate” hearing in Manhattan, Federal Judge Richard Berman continued to grill the NFL and its case against New England Patriots quarterback Tom Brady.

In what seemed to be a continual attack on the league’s case against Brady stemming from his alleged role in the deflation of footballs prior to the AFC Championship game this past January, Berman made sure to let the league know that he can effectively erase the four-game suspension that was handed to Brady.

Equally as important, he made sure to let the NFL know there was legal precedence to support a ruling in the union’s favor:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/vincent...-put-nfl-on-defensive-in-deflategate-hearing/

 

[cabri]

You'd want them all from the same manufacturer so you don't have "different gauges" argument in the future.

Certified test equipment isn't always laying around on the shelf and certainly not in that quantity. You say 3+ months, but when was the order placed?

I agree with it would be nice to have them from the same.

However, if the gauge is certified, the manufacturer should not mean anything.

I expect that the NFL was not interested in getting them until the appeal hit the courts; then they started to panic when their shenanigans became fully exposed.

Wilson does not manufacture them on their own; they would just by them from another company, sell them to the NFL with a 100% markup.

 

[waggy]

Hopefully Berman's comments reflect how he plans on ruling.

LOL the one guy who edited the report was not made available to tell what and why? nope. is sure does not look shady at all.

Link

League Hasn't Distributed Official Gauges



It takes 3+ months to purchase 100 quality gauges

Why do they have to come from Wilson?
And what do the equipment managers have to do with it; that is what the original issue was; the NFL did not retain control of the footballs at all times.

what makes you think they really want the gauges? at least until way after this is concluded. if they give them now and reports start coming in about the balls deflating by the 2nd half they are going to look stupid. though that is going to happen it's just a matter of time...

 

[Phoenix86]

LOL the one guy who edited the report was not made available to tell what and why? nope. is sure does not look shady at all.



what makes you think they really want the gauges? at least until way after this is concluded. if they give them now and reports start coming in about the balls deflating by the 2nd half they are going to look stupid. though that is going to happen it's just a matter of time...

Oh man, can you imagine if the judge looks at them and says "granting an injunction on the suspension to see how the first 4 games ball pressure numbers are".

 

[emperus]

I guess ESPN is the official mouthpiece of the NFL.

Tom Brady remains unwilling to accept DeflateGate-related suspension from NFL, contrary to earlier ESPN report
The legal representatives for Tom Brady remain unwilling to accept a suspension of any length for the quarterback as part of a prospective settlement with the NFL to resolve Brady’s DeflateGate punishment, three people familiar with their deliberations said Wednesday.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...spension-from-nfl-contrary-to-earlier-report/

 

[waggy]

Oh man, can you imagine if the judge looks at them and says "granting an injunction on the suspension to see how the first 4 games ball pressure numbers are".

they really have to do it in the winter.

not that it's really needed. science has already said they would lose pressure. the NFL has chosen to ignore that.

 

[cabri]

what makes you think they really want the gauges? at least until way after this is concluded. if they give them now and reports start coming in about the balls deflating by the 2nd half they are going to look stupid. though that is going to happen it's just a matter of time...

They stupidly made the announcement of tbe pressure experiment.

If they do not follow through it will weaken any legal case they pursue/defend

 

[BUTCH1]

Got to love some of these nuggets from Berman today,
"Berman: "There is a bit of a quantum leap from the finding of Mr. Wells to the finding of Mr. Goodell." (from general awareness to scheme)

and

"Berman: Brady's "general awareness" described by Wells didn't refer specifically to AFC championship. Said that was "conspicuously absent."

IMPO he is using the ridiculousness abound in the Wells report to scare the shit out of the NFL into offering Brady a reasonable settlement scenario. He still might be forced to conclude the CBA wasn't violated despite this hack-job by the league. At least I'm getting to enjoy him making them out to be petty A-hole's with an agenda to fulfill for "certain" owners who hate seeing the Patriot's success.

 

[smackababy]

If anything, even if the NFL wins the appeal, it looks like Berman is going to have to rule in favor of them by technicality due to the CBA giving Goodell power to do this idiocy. It will still look bad for the NFL regardless of the outcome simply because they chose to publicly fight this and it is coming out Goodell is simply shooting from the hip and it's a fucking joke.

 

[BUTCH1]

I guess ESPN is the official mouthpiece of the NFL.

FUCK ESPN...Mortenson should at least have the balls (pun intended) to publicly apologize for spewing out the fake report that got the whole thing started. Yea, fine, he got bad info, but as a journalist when you find out you have been used like a tool to deepen the hate against the Pat's you should no longer "protect" the source of that information that made you look like a blithering idiot.

 

[BUTCH1]

If anything, even if the NFL wins the appeal, it looks like Berman is going to have to rule in favor of them by technicality due to the CBA giving Goodell power to do this idiocy. It will still look bad for the NFL regardless of the outcome simply because they chose to publicly fight this and it is coming out Goodell is simply shooting from the hip and it's a fucking joke.

That is not a given, (although still a probability) because Berman seemed very concerned with the fairness during the appeals process with this line of questioning Nash,
"Berman was perplexed as to why Goodell, who authorized the discipline and also served as the appeals officer, did not allow the NFLPA to call NFL attorney Jeffrey Pash as a witness during arbitration. Pash was a co-author of the Wells Report but is also one of the NFL's lead attorneys.

NFL attorney Daniel Nash said it was in Goodell’s discretion not to allow Pash to testify and the NFLPA could have challenged that, but didn't.

Judge Berman countered that "there are sone basic procedures for fairness" that need to be followed, in referring to Goodell’s decision on Pash."

So that might be a very bad sign for the NFL, yea, the CBA does grant Goodell sweeping powers but it does not mean the NFL has the right to trample basic fairness during an arbitration hearing.

 

[edro]

Can the judge completely rule against the NFL and totally vacate the suspension, even if he doesn't have the authority?
If he does, can he become disbarred for going outside his authority?

I have always wondered if judges (at different levels) have limits to their authority and what happens if they break that authority.

 

[TraumaRN]

Can the judge completely rule against the NFL and totally vacate the suspension, even if he doesn't have the authority?
If he does, can he become disbarred for going outside his authority?

I have always wondered if judges (at different levels) have limits to their authority and what happens if they break that authority.

From reading a couple lawyer's take on this, the judge could totally vacate the suspension on the grounds that the NFL trampled on the fairness of arbitration hearing. The judge even made note of such with his line about "basic fairness" being accorded.

From my limited legal understanding of all this the gist I'm getting is that while Judge Berman has to afford "high deference" to an arbitrator, if said arbitrator didn't meet 'minimum/basic fairness' standards then he could overturn everything and rule in Brady's favor. But even if that happens I guarantee you the NFL would appeal the ruling.

As far as your second question about being disbarred I have no idea.

 

[Pacfanweb]

From what I've read, the judge has thrown these things out there to let the NFL know he "could" overturn their ruling, but is pressing them to come together and make a deal without him actually ruling on it.

 

[emperus]

Another good article.
From:
Deflate-gate judge hammers NFL's case against Tom Brady; 'Your Honor is spot-on,' defense crows

"There has to be some basic process of fairness that needs to be followed," Berman argued to Nash after the NFL explained why it failed to allow Brady to question certain witnesses, notably general counsel Jeff Pash, who also co-wrote the disputed Ted Wells report about deflated footballs.

When Nash tried to argue that Pash wasn't that involved and was more of an editor, Berman, like this was a cross-examination, pointed to an NFL press release that referred to Pash as "co-lead." Nash, stepped back from that lectern, again tried to minimize it as just a press release.

"Well," Berman said, "it's not my press release. You all wrote it."

This is how it went, over and over. For the NFL, this was, if not, ugly, then at least concerning. For the NFLPA, well, its 10-person legal team nearly skipped out of court after making an impassioned multi-point claim against the decision by commissioner Roger Goodell to uphold Brady's discipline.

For instance, Berman didn't just nod when Kessler argued that it says nowhere in NFL policy that a player can be suspended – or punished at all – for being "generally aware" of the conduct of others. He even added his own points, returning to the critical sentence of Wells' report: "it is more probable than not that Tom Brady was at least generally aware of the inappropriate activities of [Patriots employees Jim] McNally and [John] Jastremski involving the release of air from Patriots game balls."

Why, Berman kept asking, didn't Wells include a reference to the AFC championship game or even the date of it, Jan. 18, 2015?

"To me it is a conspicuous absence from Mr. Wells' finding," Berman said, noting that game and that game alone is what is in question here, not text messages referring to past games. "Why wouldn't you – he's a smart lawyer – say on January 18, 2015?"

Nash argued that it wasn't needed because the impetus for Wells' report was the AFC title game. Berman said that gave him, "some pause" and called it a leap to just base everything on "probably done it before or some guy from the Colts saying they do it all the time."

As an appreciative Kessler noted later to more courtroom laughs, "Your Honor is spot-on."

Berman also focused on how the NFL came up with the four-game standard, drilling Nash over and over about where this number came from, how much of it was about non-cooperation and how much for the footballs. Kessler argued that the crime was similar to stick 'em on a receiver's hands or any other act like that, which under NFL policy is subject to a four-figure fine for the first offense, not a suspension.

Nash said Goodell decided to liken it to performance-enhancing drugs, which Berman couldn't fathom.

"How is it equal to steroid use?" the judge asked with a tone of disbelief. "How did he pick steroid use?"

"I think the judgment goes to the integrity of the game," Nash defended.

"Everything goes to the integrity of the game," Berman said.

As for Brady not being allowed to question Pash about his role in Wells' report, Berman blasted Goodell's reasoning that it wasn't allowed because the testimony would be "cumulative."

"How would you know?" Berman asked if Pash didn't testify. When Nash downplayed Pash's contributions, Berman had none of it.

"Who else but Mr. Pash had the opportunity to edit the Wells report before it became public?" Berman asked. "Anybody?"

Nash returned to the CBA, which he says allows Goodell, as arbitrator, to make these calls.

"Under the law the arbitrator doesn't have the authority to determine evidence will be cumulative. They can not just conclude that. I would ask you, who else but Mr. Pash could have given testimony about his edits or how extensive they were? Who else could have possibly given the testimony of Mr. Pash? … What I am saying is it's not sufficient to just conclude his testimony would be cumulative."

There was more, of course. A lot more. On every one of Kessler's points, Berman seemed to take a sympathetic stance and in turn was adversarial to the NFL. What that means in the end isn't determined, but consider toward the end, after Berman went after Nash for the suggestion that you could infer Brady was cheating because he stated that his preferred inflation level was 12.5 pounds per square inch, the legal limit. How, Berman wondered, could wanting the legal limit be a sign of illegal behavior?

 

[emperus]

Can the judge completely rule against the NFL and totally vacate the suspension, even if he doesn't have the authority?
If he does, can he become disbarred for going outside his authority?

I have always wondered if judges (at different levels) have limits to their authority and what happens if they break that authority.

It seems like you would have more of a problem with the Judge (who is independent and the NFL chose) correcting an unjust situation than the NFL who was responsible for it. Is the purpose of all this, justice? Or just getting Brady and the Patriots?

The limit to the judges authority is being overturned on appeal(except for Supreme Court justices (their limit is the legislature)). Most judges don't like being overturned so they give great deference to precedent.

But here is a good read as to what happens if the judge does rule in favor of Brady.

What Happens if Judge Berman sides with Brady?
With all of the above context it mind, the disappointing answer is, it depends. It depends on why he vacates Goodell’s July 29 decision,[iii] and how he crafts his order. He has some leeway in crafting his order, and is certainly aware of the Adrian Peterson situation so it would make sense for him to be as specific and detailed as possible to avoid Brady ending up in limbo.

At a minimum Berman will remand for further proceedings consistent with the CBA.[iv] But we already know based on the Peterson case that the NFL and NFLPA don’t agree on what this means. If that is all the order says, it is a safe bet that the NFL appeals to 2nd Circuit and Goodell as arbitrator issues a stay pending the outcome on appeal. At which point we end up just like AP where Brady would sit out 4 games and then the legal battle would be over how many game checks he is entitled to.

In this scenario, Brady and the Players Association would seek an injunction allowing Brady to play pending the outcome of the NFL’s appeal and any subsequent remand. A similar situation occurred in 2008 in the StarCaps saga. Pat and Kevin Williams obtained injunctions while fighting their suspensions and Pat Williams ultimately retired in 2011 before his suspension could take effect. If Brady plays less than the 7 years he thinks he has left, he could retire before any suspension takes effect.

Of course, Judge Berman is aware of all this, and presumably a pretty smart guy (federal judges typically are). Which is why I expect him to craft an order preventing this type of situation.

The reasoning behind the decision to vacate matters because it determines the type of remedy Berman can order. If Berman vacates for a reason other than a finding that Goodell was partial, it is possible (but extremely unlikely) that Berman simply remands for “further proceedings” and Goodell hears the appeal, this time correcting the procedural issues as found by the court. If Berman finds that Goodell was partial, it obviously removes the possibility of the Commissioner hearing the appeal on remand.

More likely, Berman will craft a very specific order requiring a neutral arbitrator, not the Commissioner to hear the appeal on an expedited basis.[v] Berman’s order would require the NFL and the new arbitrator to fix any procedural issues such as access to witnesses and evidence. Finally, and perhaps most importantly, I would also expect Berman to issue an injunction allowing Brady to play pending the outcome of his new arbitration appeal.

Finally, a word of caution to Patriots fans and those who have Tom Brady on their fantasy team. It is absolutely possible (although unlikely) that even a new neutral arbitrator upholds Goodell’s four-game suspension. The Commissioner’s discipline decisions for conduct detrimental are given great deference and are reviewed to determine whether the Commissioner abused his discretion, that is, whether his determination was arbitrary or capricious – not an easy standard to defeat.

It’s impossible to know exactly what will happen if Judge Berman sides with Brady and the NFLPA, especially because the NFL has proven to be unpredictable, but it’s a safe bet that it won’t all be sunshine and roses.

http://thesportsesquires.com/even-i...l-court-the-final-outcome-is-still-uncertain/

 

[Pacfanweb]

Is there a quote from anywhere from Brady where he actually stated that he prefers the balls at 12.5 psi?

If that's the case, and you have your team's footballs all at 12.5, and the cold weather brings that down over the 3 hours they're outside before the half.....that's just smart equipment management if you actually realize that will happen.

Of course, if it's hot out, and you know the pressures will rise, you'd also want the balls to start off at 12.5, so they won't get too high by the half.

The disparity of the readings of the 2 officials who measured the pressures at the half are interesting, too.

One of them had the Pat's balls consistently lower than the other official did.....but of the 4 Colts balls they tested, those readings are reversed.

That doesn't make any sense. If the one official's gauge was simply "off" a bit, then it also should have been "off" by about the same amount, or at least in the same direction, with the Colts' balls.

How did the officials' readings get reversed there? Did one change gauges?

And Prioleau's readings for the Pats are right where you'd think they'd be after 3hrs in the cold, if they started at 12.5 psi. And honestly, most of Blakeman's were, too. And notably, some of the Colt's balls were under the minimum, too. If they were at 13-13.5, that's where they should have been, too.

 

[Anubis]

http://nep.247sports.com/Bolt/ESPN-...ots-after-citing-false-spying-report-38847144

 

[The Boston Dangler]

http://nep.247sports.com/Bolt/ESPN-...ots-after-citing-false-spying-report-38847144

so low-profile and non-descriptive, the exact opposite of the barrage of falsehoods they continue to perpetuate.

 

[BUTCH1]

From reading a couple lawyer's take on this, the judge could totally vacate the suspension on the grounds that the NFL trampled on the fairness of arbitration hearing. The judge even made note of such with his line about "basic fairness" being accorded.

From my limited legal understanding of all this the gist I'm getting is that while Judge Berman has to afford "high deference" to an arbitrator, if said arbitrator didn't meet 'minimum/basic fairness' standards then he could overturn everything and rule in Brady's favor. But even if that happens I guarantee you the NFL would appeal the ruling.

As far as your second question about being disbarred I have no idea.

The Judge would not face any legal consequences for ruling against the NFL, it's possible that a higher court found him in error and reverse his ruling but he would not be in any "trouble" whatsoever. Thia happens routinely in the court system.

 

[IronWing]

Will Brady get a special bonus to offset the penalty for being a cheater? The Pats' cheating has kept the NFL in the headlines through the entire off-season. That's got to be worth big bucks to the league.

 

[BUTCH1]

Will Brady get a special bonus to offset the penalty for being a cheater? The Pats' cheating has kept the NFL in the headlines through the entire off-season. That's got to be worth big bucks to the league.

Uh, no. Guess you haven't been following the events recently, the NFL has taken a huge PR hit when the transcripts were released, they thought that would never happened, it did and they look a lot worse than someone who wanted 1/2lb of PSI out of the ball. Yea, it's illegal but so is going 75 in a 70 if you get my drift.

 

[The Boston Dangler]

Will Brady get a special bonus to offset the penalty for being a cheater? The Pats' cheating has kept the NFL in the headlines through the entire off-season. That's got to be worth big bucks to the league.

 

[BUTCH1]

Will Brady get a special bonus to offset the penalty for being a cheater? The Pats' cheating has kept the NFL in the headlines through the entire off-season. That's got to be worth big bucks to the league.

It's not the type of headlines they want though,

"NFL Owner on Deflategate: 'This Entire Episode Is Embarrassing Our Sport'
link
Seems the shadiness in the way the entire issue was/is being handled has some owners wondering why THEIR league has to endure the PR hit that came along with this minor (IMO) issue.

 

[SSSnail]

Let's all vote to create a dictator, what could possibly go wrong?

Seriously, sometimes you have to wonder, how the fuck did these idiots amass that much money in their lifetimes?