"Tom Brady prefer his balls to feel a certain way" - balls underinflated

[SP33Demon]

There's that "no you" argument again. Round and round we go! :biggrin:

Annnnyway... Brady's lawsuit suffers a setback - Judge Kyle in Minnesota ordered that there's no reason the case cannot be heard in the Southern District of NY. The NFL's got home court (pun intended) advantage.

Yep, a solid hook to the jaw of NFLPA by the NFL. Sure hope NFLPA is good at counterpunching. heh

A Minnesota judge has transferred the NFLPA's Tom Brady lawsuit back to New York.
The NFLPA filed the suit in Minnesota in an effort to get Judge David Doty, who has historically sided with the Player's Association. U.S. District Judge Richard Kyle saw through that, kicking the case back to Manhattan where the NFL preemptively filed. "The Court sees little reason for this action to have been commenced in Minnesota at all," Kyle wrote. "Brady plays for a team in Massachusetts; the Union is headquartered in Washington, D.C.; the NFL is headquartered in New York; the arbitration proceedings took place in New York; and the award was issued in New York." It's a win for the NFL as the real legal battle gets going.

 

[lupi]

Except, the NFL has zero authority to actually obtain Tom Brady's phone. Unless they wish to take this into a real courtroom, where the burden of proof is higher, they cannot get Brady's phone without him directly handing it over. Since, he made it clear that would not happen, and he provided the evidence relevant to the case at hand.

Unless the NFL is trying to argue Tom Brady withheld evidence and then destroyed the only manner in which to obtain it, they can't punish him for the phone destruction. They can argue his non cooperation (not handing the phone over) is an issue, but after his refusal, what he did with it is not their concern.

Now here is an appropriate location; Except, Brady's position of employment is done with the understanding that you are subject to various rules and set up by the league and agreed to by the organization you decided to represent your interest. There is a rule for cooperating during a league investigation and when he decided not to to the extent the league wanted, the league then levied a punishment as allowed by those rules.

 

[Phoenix86]

Except, it was not known the phone was destroyed when the 4 game suspension was handed down, just that they would not give them the phone.

And note, even with the phone destroyed, Brady provided at the appeal all phone records(numbers and dates) from that phone.

True, but it wasn't known he didn't cooperate which was the base for the argument. However, it was known when the suspension was validated. I'm sure it weighed that decision.

 

[Phoenix86]

There is a rule for cooperating during a league investigation and when he decided not to to the extent the league wanted, the league then levied a punishment as allowed by those rules.

So I started reading Brady's actual complaint (we're all doing this, right? ). A number of the points made revolve around this:

If a given action will have punishment it has to be known before that action is taken. In context: if I don't turn over my phone I will be reprimanded.

Breaking a rule has to have a stated punishment. If I don't turn over my phone I will be suspended 4 games.

edit: These two points are at the heart of pretty much every fuck up by the NFL head office in the last couple years. These fall under "law of shop" rules which are basically aimed at overbearing employers from making up rules and punishment on a whim to ensure fairness in the workplace. Interesting.

 

[SP33Demon]

So I started reading Brady's actual complaint (we're all doing this, right? ). A number of the points made revolve around this:

If a given action will have punishment it has to be known before that action is taken. In context: if I don't turn over my phone I will be reprimanded.

Breaking a rule has to have a stated punishment. If I don't turn over my phone I will be suspended 4 games.

But that doesn't matter since his union has explicit rules for not cooperating. Quite frankly, Brady's line of thinking is very immature. There isn't a flowchart for number of games suspended if somebody does x, only precedents and every case is different.

 

[emperus]

So I started reading Brady's actual complaint (we're all doing this, right? ). A number of the points made revolve around this:

If a given action will have punishment it has to be known before that action is taken. In context: if I don't turn over my phone I will be reprimanded.

Breaking a rule has to have a stated punishment. If I don't turn over my phone I will be suspended 4 games.

edit: These two points are at the heart of pretty much every fuck up by the NFL head office in the last couple years. These fall under "law of shop" rules which are basically aimed at overbearing employers from making up rules and punishment on a whim to ensure fairness in the workplace. Interesting.

Yup, same thing they tried and lost in court on in the Peterson case. Which brings me to another point. I read the Doty ruling that case and it pretty much made sense along the lines of what you spoke about in ur post. But the media makes it seem like Jude Doty is an NFLPA sympathetic judge rather than a judge who made a good ruling and pushed back on the NFL's abuse of it's discretion and power.

 

[SP33Demon]

Yup, same thing they tried and lost in court on in the Peterson case. Which brings me to another point. I read the Doty ruling that case and it pretty much made sense along the lines of what you spoke about in ur post. But the media makes it seem like Jude Doty is an NFLPA sympathetic judge rather than a judge who made a good ruling and pushed back on the NFL's abuse of it's discretion and power.

You're just pontificating around in circles again. This has already been discussed about 5 pages back. Doty's ruling was an exception to the rule and will still most likely to get smacked down by NFL attorneys, according to ESPN's legal analyst. You are talking about a case that is far from over yet, the only thing we really know is that the NFL suddenly got a sweet spot for Peterson by not requesting a stay of his suspension (maybe the Wilfs had a private talk with Goodell that AP has done his time and Goodell let him off the hook, who knows?) and could have double-fucked Peterson in the ass if they wanted to, despite Doty's ruling.

At this point it's like Pats fans are running around chasing their tails looking for some way tom can wriggle out of his suspension. Let's face it, get on the bad side of the NFL and you're toast. It doesn't matter what you think, if their kangaroo court says you are suspended, you will be suspended. A federal judge isn't going to save you, and like I said earlier, Peterson was let off the hook by the NFL not Doty. The NFL could have requested the stay and dragged out the appeal process for years if they wanted to, and by then AP would be 35 and untouchable. Sure there was a 1% chance he would "win", but at the cost of the rest of his career. They did him a favor.

In addition, Tom didn't get a harsher penalty like Peterson did so it's not even the same precedent.

Q: But didn't a federal judge recently reverse an NFL arbitration ruling for Adrian Peterson?

A: Yes. U.S. District Court Judge David Doty in Minneapolis, who has presided over NFL litigation for 25 years, reversed the punishment imposed on Peterson. He based his ruling on what he thought was an egregious error by the NFL arbitrator -- the application of a new and harsher penalty to an incident that occurred before the adoption of the new penalty. The case is on appeal, and the NFL is likely to prevail in the appeal with the high court reminding Doty that federal judges should stay away from reviews of arbitrators' rulings.

 

[emperus]

You're just pontificating around in circles again. This has already been discussed about 5 pages back. Doty's ruling was an exception to the rule and will still most likely to get smacked down by NFL attorneys, according to ESPN's legal analyst. You are talking about a case that is far from over yet, the only thing we really know is that the NFL suddenly got a sweet spot for Peterson by not requesting a stay of his suspension (maybe the Wilfs had a private talk with Goodell that AP has done his time and Goodell let him off the hook, who knows?) and could have double-fucked Peterson in the ass if they wanted to, despite Doty's ruling.

At this point it's like Pats fans are running around chasing their tails looking for some way tom can wriggle out of his suspension. Let's face it, get on the bad side of the NFL and you're toast. It doesn't matter what you think, if their kangaroo court says you are suspended, you will be suspended. A federal judge isn't going to save you, and like I said earlier, Peterson was let off the hook by the NFL not Doty. The NFL could have requested the stay and dragged out the appeal process for years if they wanted to, and by then AP would be 35 and untouchable. Sure there was a 1% chance he would "win", but at the cost of the rest of his career. They did him a favor.

In addition, Tom didn't get a harsher penalty like Peterson did so it's not even the same precedent.

Simple question, did you read either the Doty ruling or the NFLPA Brady brief? You should probably STFU if you haven't. Because you sound stupid trying to Parrot stuff you don't know an inkling about.

Honestly, the Doty ruling is short. Read it and come back an tell me what logic you disagree with. Same with the NFLPA Brady brief (it's a little longer). Read it and tell me what you disagree with assuming what they are argue is truthful. Reading stuff should be prerequisite in forming your own opinion.

 

[SP33Demon]

Simple question, did you read either the Doty ruling or the NFLPA Brady brief? You should probably STFU if you haven't. Because you sound stupid trying to Parrot stuff you don't know an inkling about.

Honestly, the Doty ruling is short. Read it and come back an tell me what logic you disagree with. Same with the NFLPA Brady brief (it's a little longer). Read it and tell me what you disagree with assuming what they are argue is truthful. Reading stuff should be prerequisite in forming your own opinion.

I'm not wasting my time on your deflection, whatever Doty's opinion is irrelevant. Address the fact that nothing in Doty's ruling negates the fact the NFL let Peterson off by not filing for a stay of his suspension during the appeal process. You won't because you know you have no argument, Peterson was granted a get out of jail free card by Goodell. Brady is fucked, the NFL is always in control is what you don't understand.

 

[BUTCH1]

But that doesn't matter since his union has explicit rules for not cooperating. Quite frankly, Brady's line of thinking is very immature. There isn't a flowchart for number of games suspended if somebody does x, only precedents and every case is different.

An interesting take on all of this here, but I still feel Brady's chances are a long-shot. The main issue his lawyers will bring up is how could he possibly get a fair appeal from the same person that doled out his punishment?

 

[emperus]

I'm not wasting my time on your deflection, whatever Doty's opinion is irrelevant. Address the fact that nothing in Doty's ruling negates the fact the NFL let Peterson off by not filing for a stay of his suspension during the appeal process. You won't because you know you have no argument, Peterson was granted a get out of jail free card by Goodell. Brady is fucked, the NFL is always in control is what you don't understand.

Lol. I'm sure you don't know how ridiculous you sound. You are going on about the appeal yet you believe the decision that spawned the appeal is irrelevant. Lol. That's some logic there buddy.

You continue with equally dubious logic. You believe the NFL let Peterson off by not filing for a stay. Yet that ascertain is built upon a rather ridiculous assumption that the NFL would have won that motion for a stay.

 

[cabri]

I'm not wasting my time on your deflection, whatever Doty's opinion is irrelevant. Address the fact that nothing in Doty's ruling negates the fact the NFL let Peterson off by not filing for a stay of his suspension during the appeal process. You won't because you know you have no argument, Peterson was granted a get out of jail free card by Goodell. Brady is fucked, the NFL is always in control is what you don't understand.

The NFL chose to not file an appeal probably because they felt it was a lost cause. They lost face badly when the Federal Judge overruling the arbitrator.

How much more would have happened if the appeal was shot down. They felt it was better to cut their losses

 

[lupi]

An interesting take on all of this here, but I still feel Brady's chances are a long-shot. The main issue his lawyers will bring up is how could he possibly get a fair appeal from the same person that doled out his punishment?

not really, she 's been anti- goodell for quite some time.

 

[SP33Demon]

The NFL chose to not file an appeal probably because they felt it was a lost cause. They lost face badly when the Federal Judge overruling the arbitrator.

How much more would have happened if the appeal was shot down. They felt it was better to cut their losses

Wrong, the NFL would have won the stay during the appeal according to media sources. Look, the NFL is still clearly pissed off about the Doty ruling because they're appealing it, why didn't they "cut their losses" and not appeal? Since they appealed, why didn't they also file the stay for Peterson's suspension? Most likely because they didn't want to kill the old man's career (and/or the Vikings asked them not to). That's a good way to get the owners turned against you when you fuck over a franchise by not allowing their star player to finish his final 2-3 years playing. So the NFL probably figured AP did his time during this suspension last year and let him be.

The bottom line is that the NFL was still in control of AP's time on the field, and they can really fuck Brady if they want, even if he wins his appeal (which will consequently be countered with an NFL appeal and request for a stay on the suspension). Brady is biting off more than he can chew by thinking with his ego over what is best for the Pats.

 

[Capt Caveman]

2009 Jets-Patriots incident becomes issue in Brady case

 

[Fingolfin269]

It's too bad Mort decided to back out of an interview this morning where he was hopefully going to discuss the source of his initial bad reporting. Oh well.

 

[emperus]

Wrong, the NFL would have won the stay during the appeal according to media sources. Look, the NFL is still clearly pissed off about the Doty ruling because they're appealing it, why didn't they "cut their losses" and not appeal? Since they appealed, why didn't they also file the stay for Peterson's suspension? Most likely because they didn't want to kill the old man's career (and/or the Vikings asked them not to). That's a good way to get the owners turned against you when you fuck over a franchise by not allowing their star player to finish his final 2-3 years playing. So the NFL probably figured AP did his time during this suspension last year and let him be.

The bottom line is that the NFL was still in control of AP's time on the field, and they can really fuck Brady if they want, even if he wins his appeal (which will consequently be countered with an NFL appeal and request for a stay on the suspension). Brady is biting off more than he can chew by thinking with his ego over what is best for the Pats.

According to media sources? Why don't u post an article from these media sources. Or is it the same media sources that reported 11 of 12 Pats balls were under inflated by 2PSI. lol.

 

[Phokus]

The Patriots just released email communication between their lawyers and the NFL's lawyers. After Mort's erroneous "11 out of 12" report, the league refused to correct the leaks and denied they were the ones who leaked the erroneous report. Obviously the Pats didn't leak the report, because it damaged their reputation with lies.

http://wellsreportcontext.com/league-failure-to-correct-misinformation/

I hope kraft and brady sues the NFL for every penny they're worth.

 

[BUTCH1]

The Patriots just released email communication between their lawyers and the NFL's lawyers. After Mort's erroneous "11 out of 12" report, the league refused to correct the leaks and denied they were the ones who leaked the erroneous report. Obviously the Pats didn't leak the report, because it damaged their reputation with lies.

http://wellsreportcontext.com/league-failure-to-correct-misinformation/

I hope kraft and brady sues the NFL for every penny they're worth.

Yea, that pissed me off as well. While I don't dismiss the damming text's as ridiculous "he's on a diet' excuse why did the leauge let this situation go on and on? why did Well's dismiss the Ref's account of what gauge he used to measure the Patriot's balls pre-game but accept EVERY other recollection as correct. Oh, I get it, that would blast a $5 million report out of the water and we can't go back to Goodell after blowing through all that cash without the goods.

 

[emperus]

The Patriots just released email communication between their lawyers and the NFL's lawyers. After Mort's erroneous "11 out of 12" report, the league refused to correct the leaks and denied they were the ones who leaked the erroneous report. Obviously the Pats didn't leak the report, because it damaged their reputation with lies.

http://wellsreportcontext.com/league-failure-to-correct-misinformation/

I hope kraft and brady sues the NFL for every penny they're worth.

Read that last email. I think it's pretty telling.

I work for the Patriots as well as the 31 other clubs and the Commissioner. Sometimes it creates tension as it apparently has here.

Why would releasing the true PSI levels and correcting misleading leaks create tension among the other 31 teams?

 

[emperus]

For anybody interested in the court case and/or the NFLPA's filing. A little long read.

http://boston.cbslocal.com/2015/07/30/closer-look-at-nflpas-filing-against-nfl-on-tom-bradys-behalf/

 

[cabri]

According to media sources? Why don't u post an article from these media sources. Or is it the same media sources that reported 11 of 12 Pats balls were under inflated by 2PSI. lol.

They fail to remember that ESPN was a willing[\b] puppet for the NFL in releasing false info LEAKED[\b] during in initial inquiry. And they did not retract that false info, but chose to double down.

Every rumor was being reported as fact.

 

[Phoenix86]

They fail to remember that ESPN was a willing[\b] puppet for the NFL in releasing false info LEAKED[\b] during in initial inquiry. And they did not retract that false info, but chose to double down.

Every rumor was being reported as fact.

I honestly can't say I have ever seen/heard the real numbers talked about anywhere.

 

[cabri]

I honestly can't say I have ever seen/heard the real numbers talked about anywhere.

Providing real information would undermine the fantasy that the NFL presented to the public to justify their actions.

Just like science undermines religion, truth exposes fraud/corruption

 

[SP33Demon]

According to media sources? Why don't u post an article from these media sources. Or is it the same media sources that reported 11 of 12 Pats balls were under inflated by 2PSI. lol.

I'd have to dig it up, I've read a shitload of articles on the Peterson ruling. Some of them mention the NFL declining to file the stay on Peterson's suspension but none knew why.

Edit:
1) http://www.si.com/nfl/2015/02/26/adrian-peterson-appeal-roger-goodell-minnesota-vikings

In an appeal, the NFL will likely petition the Eighth Circuit to stay (suspend) Doty's order. The league would argue that it would suffer irreparable harm if it is barred from enforcing collectively bargained rules for personal conduct. This is a powerful argument that the Eighth Circuit will take seriously.

But they didn't do this, they just appealed it and reinstated AP. Mind blown yet?

2) http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2015/2/...uspension-appeal-result-roger-goodell-vikings

Doty's ruling is expected to be appealed by the NFL, and the league can seek an injunction to keep Peterson from being reinstated while the appeals process is ongoing.

3)http://www.foxsports.com/north/story/nfl-appeals-arbitrator-s-ruling-in-adrian-peterson-case-022615

"Adrian Peterson is an important member of the Minnesota Vikings, and our focus remains on welcoming him back when he is able to rejoin our organization," the Vikings said Thursday in a statement. "Today's ruling leaves Adrian's status under the control of the NFL, the NFLPA and the legal system, and we will have no further comment at this time."

Minnesota Vikings made it clear after Doty's ruling that AP's status is still in limbo until the legal process, such as an appeal, runs its course.

4)http://www.latimes.com/sports/sport...son-suspension-lifted-nfl-20150226-story.html

The league said it put Peterson on the commissioner's exempt list, making him ineligible to play or participate in team activities until his legal proceedings have run their course.

More proof the NFL appeal had not run its course yet and AP was still held hostage to legal proceedings. Yet AP was reinstated for cooperating with the league in the 4/16 letter talking about AP and the NFL's 4/7 meeting.

"In a letter from Commissioner Roger Goodell, Peterson was informed that he is expected to fulfill his remaining obligations to the authorities in Minnesota and Texas, as well as the additional commitments Peterson made during his April 7 meeting with the commissioner regarding maintaining an ongoing program of counseling and treatment as recommended by medical advisors."

The league also said that if Peterson violated the personal conduct policy in the future, he could face suspension without pay or even banishment from the NFL.

The bottom line is that AP cooperated, was remorseful, and agreed to jump through all of the NFL's hoops (counseling/treatment) so he could play this season. Otherwise, the NFL would have just requested and won a stay of his suspension while they legally dragged this Doty appeal out in District Court. I'm guessing they would have done this had Peterson NOT cooperated and been a good little boy during his meeting with Goodell. Brady should be taking notes here, play nice with the NFL and they may stop fucking with you. In fact, the NFL gave Brady numerous chances to fess up and his suspension would have been dramatically reduced. His loss, he's in for a world of hurt now.