"Tom Brady prefer his balls to feel a certain way" - balls underinflated

[Fingolfin269]

Why do people call these scandals "?"-gates? I understand that it is a play on "watergate", but watergate was the the name of a hotel. It wasn't a scandal involving water. Just a really annoying thing.

I too would like the -gate to go away. Gategate?

 

[SP33Demon]

lol the colts inflated in an outdoors uninsulated shed. You also have no idea what they did to prep the balls. And again,

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/01/25/nfl-bears-plenty-of-blame-for-deflategate/



Get REKT

Then the colts' footballs should have been too. That's why the NFL is sweeping it under the rug because the refs fucked up as has been said 30X already. Here's a tissue, cry moar.

 

[emperus]

lol Bill Nye. They cheated, BilliCHEATED. Just admit it already and be done with it. GAWDD

Take a look at a real scientific study.

HeadSmart Labs "DeflateGate" Study

 

[emperus]

Proof or "scientific evidence" be damned.

This study made me realize how many people hate and are jealous of the patriots. I guess that happens when they constantly whoop on your teams, coaches and players.

 

[SP33Demon]

Take a look at a real scientific study.

HeadSmart Labs "DeflateGate" Study

So how did Indy's balls escape the laws of physics? That study only makes it worse for the Pats since:
1) Indy's balls were confirmed to be fine by ESPN and should have been under PSI if the same game variables were imparted upon the ball:
https://twitter.com/mortreport/status/558353913154248704
Simple math - 12.5 minus 1.8 = under the 11.5 minimum.
2) The NFL isn't going to launch a full scale investigation unless there was a significant discrepancy between the two teams' footballs. So this means either the refs fucked up on the initial measurement or the latter measurement or the Pats did cheat and the NFL will try to sweep it under the rug like it always does. Whether the Pats or refs cheated/fucked up, we will never know.

 

[emperus]

So how did Indy's balls escape the laws of physics? That study only makes it worse for the Pats since:
1) Indy's balls were confirmed to be fine by ESPN and should have been under PSI if the same game variables were imparted upon the ball:
https://twitter.com/mortreport/status/558353913154248704
Simple math - 12.5 minus 1.8 = under the 11.5 minimum.
2) The NFL isn't going to launch a full scale investigation unless there was a significant discrepancy between the two teams' footballs. So this means either the refs fucked up on the initial measurement or the latter measurement or the Pats did cheat and the NFL will try to sweep it under the rug like it always does. Whether the Pats or refs cheated/fucked up, we will never know.

It's really frustrating reading Posts like this. People are making categorical statements without any real numbers or facts. All we know is that the Colts balls were in the specs and the Pats balls were underinflated.

But... that doesn't tell us anything. We don't know how the balls were tested, when they were tested, what the balls PSI were initially and what they ended up with when they were tested. We do know that it is a fact that the Balls would have deflated when they were outside and in the rain (Ideal Gas Law. Check out the HeadSmart study posted earlier).

Ex.

The Colts balls could have been at 13.5 or even over inflated.
The Colts balls could have been stored in the team bus and tested immediately after removing them from the BUS.
The Patriots balls could have been at 12.5.
The balls could have been tested immediately after removing them from the field. Both balls could have dropped 1 PSI. The colts balls would have been within spec and the Patriots balls would have been underinflated. We also don't know what process the Patriots and Colts used to treat the balls before they were inspected and initially tested. The Colts had to travel, so they might have had to do all the treatment before they left and their balls reached equilibrium before the initial Test. Whereas the Pats being the Home team could have been "treating" their balls up to the inspection.

What's frustrating are the people who are commenting when no real information has been released. You are neglecting all the facts that we don't know and making false inferences i.e. Bill Nye. The pats could have cheated, but we won't know until we get the numbers and actual NFL reports not rumors.

This is a going to be a clusterfuck for the NFL. If the reports are true, they should have just warned the league if they believed something nefarious was going down instead of doing a sting. But unless they have hard evidence of someone sticking a needle in the ball, they better hope that they had a scientist helping them with the sting and have solid measurements. I.e. What were the measurements of both balls before hand, where were the balls stored beforehand, were the balls allowed to reach equilibrium before testing them, what were the measurements of the balls afterward, what temperature and atmospheric pressures were both balls tested in, How soon after leaving the field were both balls tested, where were both balls stored during the game, were there damp rags around certain balls.

Edit: Thought about this some more. There is a possibility that the Colts game balls were brought to the Patriots facility in an unheated portion of a bus or truck. Making it likely that that the balls had reached outdoor equilibrium older before being tested. When they were then given to the refs for inspection the balls might have been deflated due to being outdoors and the refs would have further inflated. So even when they were brought back outside, they wouldn't have had deflated as much as the PATs ball. Again this is one theory, maybe not true, but as I said earlier there are just as many things that we don't know as there are things we know from the NFL statement.

 

[purbeast0]

So how did Indy's balls escape the laws of physics? That study only makes it worse for the Pats since:
1) Indy's balls were confirmed to be fine by ESPN and should have been under PSI if the same game variables were imparted upon the ball:
https://twitter.com/mortreport/status/558353913154248704
Simple math - 12.5 minus 1.8 = under the 11.5 minimum.
2) The NFL isn't going to launch a full scale investigation unless there was a significant discrepancy between the two teams' footballs. So this means either the refs fucked up on the initial measurement or the latter measurement or the Pats did cheat and the NFL will try to sweep it under the rug like it always does. Whether the Pats or refs cheated/fucked up, we will never know.

because may be the indy balls were not at 12.5 when the game started, maybe they were higher.

they were also said to be inflated in a non-temperature controlled environment, which means there wasn't going to be a huge discrepancy in temperatures that the footballs were handled in.

basically there are multiple different reasons why it could be the case, but since indy wasn't the team being investigated, nobody really cared to look into the situation.

 

[purbeast0]

It's really frustrating reading Posts like this. People are making categorical statements without any real numbers or facts. All we know is that the Colts balls were in the specs and the Pats balls were underinflated.

But... that doesn't tell us anything. We don't know how the balls were tested, when they were tested, what the balls PSI were initially and what they ended up with when they were tested. We do know that it is a fact that the Balls would have deflated when they were outside and in the rain (Ideal Gas Law. Check out the HeadSmart study posted earlier).

Ex.

The Colts balls could have been at 13.5 or even over inflated.
The Colts balls could have been stored in the team bus and tested immediately after removing them from the BUS.
The Patriots balls could have been at 12.5.
The balls could have been tested immediately after removing them from the field. Both balls could have dropped 1 PSI. The colts balls would have been within spec and the Patriots balls would have been underinflated. We also don't know what process the Patriots and Colts used to treat the balls before they were inspected and initially tested. The Colts had to travel, so they might have had to do all the treatment before they left and their balls reached equilibrium before the initial Test. Whereas the Pats being the Home team could have been "treating" their balls up to the inspection.

What's frustrating are the people who are commenting when no real information has been released. You are neglecting all the facts that we don't know and making false inferences i.e. Bill Nye. The pats could have cheated, but we won't know until we get the numbers and actual NFL reports not rumors.

This is a going to be a clusterfuck for the NFL. If the reports are true, they should have just warned the league if they believed something nefarious was going down instead of doing a sting. But unless they have hard evidence of someone sticking a needle in the ball, they better hope that they had a scientist helping them with the sting and have solid measurements. I.e. What were the measurements of both balls before hand, what were the measurements of the balls afterward, what temperature and atmospheric pressures were both balls tested in. How soon after leaving the field were both balls tested.

hah good for you, no way i could waste this much time trying to explain to idiots this much info. props for you doing this.

this thread has really brought out the stupid in this forum.

 

[emperus]

One more thing. Based on the HeadSmart study. If a ball can drop ~2PSI during a game. Doesn't that back up what Brady was saying. As most quarterbacks in inclimate weather cities should be able to notice that difference in their game balls.

 

[SP33Demon]

One more thing. Based on the HeadSmart study. If a ball can drop ~2PSI during a game. Doesn't that back up what Brady was saying. As most quarterbacks in inclimate weather cities should be able to notice that difference in their game balls.

If the ball did drop 2 then the Colts would have definitely been out of spec. 13.5 - 2 = 11.5. Even if overinflated slightly, 14.0 - 2 = 12. You are pulling imaginary numbers to support your team's case when it doesn't jive with the control group, i.e. the Colts, which ESPN confirmed were not out of the 12.5 - 13.5 range during the game. That virtually eliminates game time variables like the cold, otherwise the Colts would be under spec too. You are making wild claims like the Colts must have overinflated the ball above 14. Unless the Colts are employing physicists that already ran the equations in a "gotcha" tattle tale snitching, then that is highly unlikely they overinflated by over 14.

Again, the NFL isn't going to unleash a public sting like this unless something out of the ordinary is amiss. They may be stupid but they're not going to intentionally damage their brand before the biggest game of the season. The psi discrepancy set off their alarms and they are still investigating. The 'headsmart' study only confirms that they had good reason to investigate.

 

[emperus]

If the ball did drop 2 then the Colts would have definitely been out of spec. 13.5 - 2 = 11.5. Even if overinflated slightly, 14.0 - 2 = 12. You are pulling imaginary numbers to support your team's case when it doesn't jive with the control group, i.e. the Colts, which ESPN confirmed were not out of the 12.5 - 13.5 range during the game. That virtually eliminates game time variables like the cold, otherwise the Colts would be under spec too. You are making wild claims like the Colts must have overinflated the ball above 14. Unless the Colts are employing physicists that already ran the equations in a "gotcha" tattle tale snitching, then that is highly unlikely they overinflated by over 14.

Again, the NFL isn't going to unleash a public sting like this unless something out of the ordinary is amiss. They may be stupid but they're not going to intentionally damage their brand before the biggest game of the season. The psi discrepancy set off their alarms and they are still investigating. The 'headsmart' study only confirms that they had good reason to investigate.

Could you show me the numbers you used for the control group. Or tell me where the Colts balls were stored or when and where the measurements were taken or what the temperature of the air inside the Colts and PAts balls were or what process the COlts and Pats used to treat the balls? You do understand the concept of a control group right?

Basically at this point we are comparing apples and oranges (Colts and Patriots Ball measurements).

Again, here is one theory how the Colts balls could have been overinflated.

Thought about this some more. There is a possibility that the Colts game balls were brought to the Patriots facility in an unheated portion of a bus or truck after having flown to Boston. Making it likely that that the balls had reached outdoor equilibrium before being tested. When they were then given to the refs for inspection the balls might have been deflated due to being outdoors and the refs would have further inflated the balls. So even when they were brought back outside, they wouldn't have had deflated as much as the PATs ball. Again this is one theory, maybe not true, but as I said earlier there are just as many things that we don't know as there are things we know from the NFL statement.

My point being is that that theory is just as good as yours (probably better) since no one has any more information.

 

[zinfamous]

this shit is almost as stupid as gamersgate

almost.

 

[dainthomas]

This study made me realize how many people hate and are jealous of the patriots. I guess that happens when they constantly whoop on your teams, coaches and players.

Why would I be jealous of a team that hasn't won a championship for ten years?

NE fans sure love hanging on to ancient history.

 

[emperus]

Why would I be jealous of a team that hasn't won a championship for ten years?

NE fans sure love hanging on to ancient history.

What team are you a fan of?

 

[dainthomas]

What team are you a fan of?

A team that's won a championship at some point in the last decade. Also see my avatar.

 

[Phokus]

If the ball did drop 2 then the Colts would have definitely been out of spec. 13.5 - 2 = 11.5. Even if overinflated slightly, 14.0 - 2 = 12. You are pulling imaginary numbers to support your team's case when it doesn't jive with the control group, i.e. the Colts, which ESPN confirmed were not out of the 12.5 - 13.5 range during the game. That virtually eliminates game time variables like the cold, otherwise the Colts would be under spec too. You are making wild claims like the Colts must have overinflated the ball above 14. Unless the Colts are employing physicists that already ran the equations in a "gotcha" tattle tale snitching, then that is highly unlikely they overinflated by over 14.

Again, the NFL isn't going to unleash a public sting like this unless something out of the ordinary is amiss. They may be stupid but they're not going to intentionally damage their brand before the biggest game of the season. The psi discrepancy set off their alarms and they are still investigating. The 'headsmart' study only confirms that they had good reason to investigate.

The colts inflated their balls in an ininsulated outdoors shed you retard. Also, here's another physicist who teabags you:

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/physicist-emailed-us-explain-exactly-143048032.html

There has been a fair amount of bad comment about whether temperature can account for the observed football deflation in the AFC Championship game.

Many of the calculations just use the pressure measured by a gauge on the ball, but this is a mistake. You need to account for the fact that the measurement is a gauge measurement, not an absolute measurement of pressure.

This is the argument:

If the balls were initially inflated to 12.5 psi (the minimum) in a locker room at 75 F, then the pressure inside the balls at 45 F (like at halftime on the field) would be about 11 psi - already down by 2 psi from the nominal 13 psi inflation pressure. The calculation is trivial, uses the Ideal Gas Law, the fact that the pressure measurements are gauge measurements (relative to the base atmospheric pressure, (I used 14.7 psi for the base atmospheric pressure)), not absolute pressure measurements, and assume the football volume doesn't change.

Additionally, each pressure measurement takes a little air out of the ball, and multiple measurements can also significantly reduce the pressure. Cyclists understand this.

Given the multiple pressure measurements that were made, plus natural leakage due to rough play, plus temperature differences, all this could very easily result in more than a 2 psi pressure drop, measured at or near field conditions.

Here are the numbers:

75 F = 297 Kelvin (Need to use absolute temperatures)
45 F = 280.4 Kelvin

280.4/297 = the absolute pressure ratio = (X +14.7)/(12.5 + 14.7)

Where X is the gauge measurement of the ball pressure at the field temperature, 45 F.

X = 10.98 psi.

2 psi less than the nominal 13 psi. Just from temperature differences.

There have also been reports that the balls weighed less. Ridiculous. Air doesn't weigh much. You would have to weigh the balls to a couple of tenths of a percentage, and you couldn't do that by just hefting the balls.

Why don't you report this and send it along to the NFL, too. It sure would be good to shut up the ESPN sensation mongers.

The NFL should do a real technical analysis, and some experiments.

Cheers,

Kirk

Kirk Hackett, PhD
Physicist

Go take your armchair science 'theories' and shove them up your ass

This is a bit excessive of a personal attack for OT. Using extra large font for a personal attack really was overboard. -Admin DrPizza

 

[BeeBoop]

Why is anyone surprised and defending BilliCHEAT? lol. He's got a history of cheating.

BilliCHEATS
Patriots CHEAT

BilliCHEATS
Patriots CHEAT

BilliCHEATS
Patriots CHEAT

BilliCHEATS
Patriots CHEAT

BilliCHEATS
Patriots CHEAT

It sounds almost like a poem.

BilliCHEATS
Patriots CHEAT

BilliCHEATS
Patriots CHEAT

BilliCHEATS
Patriots CHEAT

 

[soulcougher73]

OMG stop talking about this crap already. Nothing will come of it as there are TOO many variables that are unaccounted for to make any real judgements either way. Cant just compare Colts balls to Pats balls because the variables are not the same for both teams as has been pointed out a million times already.

Get this dumb thread off page 1 and into oblivion already.

 

[soulcougher73]

Why is anyone surprised and defending BilliCHEAT? lol. He's got a history of cheating.

BilliCHEATS
Patriots CHEAT

BilliCHEATS
Patriots CHEAT

BilliCHEATS
Patriots CHEAT

BilliCHEATS
Patriots CHEAT

BilliCHEATS
Patriots CHEAT

It sounds almost like a poem.

BilliCHEATS
Patriots CHEAT

BilliCHEATS
Patriots CHEAT

BilliCHEATS
Patriots CHEAT

Hey look at me everyone..im an idiot!!

 

[Anubis]

every time I open this thread

 

[KeithTalent]

every time I open this thread

Haha, no kidding. I keep coming in here to watch the stupid unfold. Does not disappoint.

KT

 

[BeeBoop]

That picture is pretty funny.

 

[SP33Demon]

 

[unixwizzard]

Goodell is a genius, he should be getting a huge bonus on top of a large pay raise.

Instead of taking about the players who beat their wives/girlfriends or children, we are talking about properly inflated balls.

Instead of talking about the players accused of rape / sexual assault, we are talking about properly inflated balls.

Instead of talking about the injuries suffered by the players, we are talking about properly inflated balls.

Instead of talking about the players who are charged with assault (bar fights and whatnot), we are talking about properly inflated balls.

Instead of talking about the players who are caught abusing drugs (legal and illegal), we are talking about properly inflated balls.

Instead of talking about the players who are caught driving drunk, we are talking about properly inflated balls.

Instead of talking about the former / retired players who suffer long term neurological conditions to the point that some commit suicide, we are talking about properly inflated balls.

Instead of talking about how teams worth billions manage to soak up millions in taxpayer funded subsidies, we are talking about properly inflated balls.

Instead of talking about how the Pro Bowl has turned into an absolute fucking joke, we are talking about properly inflated balls.

Instead of talking about how ticket prices have risen to the point that costs of going to a see a game are out of reach for the average American, we are talking about properly inflated balls.

Bottom line, there is so much wrong with the National Football League, so much we should be talking about, instead, we are talking about properly inflated balls.

Well played Mr Goodell, well played.

 

[emperus]

A team that's won a championship at some point in the last decade. Also see my avatar.

I see where your bias comes from. You also know NE has been to 2 super bowls in that 10 year span.

But I would be more worried about your team's chances. I suspect the Pats are going to beat them if not crush them.