Tips, YOUR NOT ENTITLED TO THEM!

[NikPreviousAcct]

Originally posted by: reitz

they should not be "expected" every time you serve joe blow, thats what you get WAGES for.

as I said I do tip, but I DON'T TIP people who belive they are entitled to it.

It's fairly obvious that you've never worked as a tipped employee. Here's a newsflash: Tips are EXPECTED by every establishment that uses tipped employees. Most states have a different minimum wage for those workers; here I was paid the minimum wage of $2.39/hour the last time I worked as a waiter (almost 3 years ago...AFAIK, it hasn't been increased since then).

Since it's my choice to tip or not, you shouldn't expect jack sh!t. You're 1) setting yourself up for a letdown and 2) expecting someone to give you something that isn't rightfully yours. You chose that job, like it or not, and I won't tip you if you piss me off. God, all you people bitching that you deserve tips even before you actually serve me and people saying that you need to tip no matter what are acting like children running around to other people with their toys and saying "MINE!" and taking them. You don't deserve my money. You deserve what you get paid in your paycheck. I pay my bill. Whether you get a tip or not is entirely up to me, and you can't just go around expecting something that isn't yours. Do you expect the government to pay your rent? Do you expect your employer to keep you on if you're their worst employee costing them loads of money for your screw ups? No. You have to work for something. And, just because you work for it, doesn't always mean you'll get it. Live with it.

nik

 

[Pacfanweb]

Nik, look at it this way: It is customary, meaning it is expected, for customers to give a tip for good or proper service. It's not supposed to be a choice, such as, you're having a bad day and don't feel like tipping.
It IS your choice to decide if the service warranted a tip or not. If the server is a total jerk, screws up, unapologetic, etc., they'd best not expect a tip from me.
However, if they do their job correctly, they have every right to expect a tip. That is what going out to eat is all about. If they are really good, or do something in my opinion that warrants more than the standard 15%, then I certainly give it, no problem.
That's not to say you should give 20% every time....you shouldn't. But the argument that says servers chose their job, therefore they shouldn't expect a tip just isn't right. Again, if they do their job right, they should get a tip every single time. Since nobody in the world does their job right 100% of the time, of course servers get stiffed occasionally. They are human. It happens. And they usually know why they got stiffed, too. But it a server serves 25 tables a night, and only screws up 3 of them, then they should get 22 tips that night.

Tipping is most certainly expected, that is why restaurants pay basically nothing for wages. I suppose that Applebee's could charge 20 bucks for a steak that right now costs 17, and then pay the server a good salary........but how good would the service be then?
(actually, I've never had good service there, but that's another story
Just like car service depts. could pay all their techs a salary instead of straight commission based on production........but how much work would they do then?
Commission pay jobs give the worker incentive to do the best job possible so they'll make more money. Waiting jobs are no different.
In this case, YOU, the customer are basically the employer, hiring the server as a sub-contractor. If the server makes everything come together right, YOU, the customer, are expected to pay for that service, and you get to decide whether the service was worth 15%, or more or less.

 

[NikPreviousAcct]

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree then.

nik

 

[EXman]

If you cannot pay a tip to a waiter that makes $2.13 an hour and works hard to give you good service then go to Tacobell and stop whining ya cheap bastard :Q

btw that $2.13 an hour is taxed so that sometime the waiters weekly check is nothing... litteraly nothing

 

[Lucky]

btw that $2.13 an hour is taxed so that sometime the waiters weekly check is nothing... litteraly nothing


good grief, do we need to say it again? EMPLOYERS ARE REQUIRED TO PAY MINIMUM WAGE if they dont make up the difference from 2.13 (or whatever) and 5.15 with tips.

 

[UltraQuiet]

good grief, do we need to say it again? EMPLOYERS ARE REQUIRED TO PAY MINIMUM WAGE if they dont make up the difference from 2.13 (or whatever) and 5.15 with tips.

You got a link or something to that because there are places here that don't do that.


NEVERMIND I FOUND IT.

 

[Blain]

Aren't "servers" culled through capitalistic darwinism / law of the jungle?

The good servers go on to economic upgrade through better tips, job promotion?
The bad servers go on to dish washing, an assembly line or some other non-tipping position?

 

[Thegonagle]

Originally posted by: Pacfanweb
Nik, look at it this way: It is customary, meaning it is expected, for customers to give a tip for good or proper service. . .
. . .
Tipping is most certainly expected, that is why restaurants pay basically nothing for wages. . .
. . .
In this case, YOU, the customer are basically the employer, hiring the server as a sub-contractor. If the server makes everything come together right, YOU, the customer, are expected to pay for that service, and you get to decide whether the service was worth 15%, or more or less.

You speak with great wisdom on this subject.

 

[Nefrodite]

wow, a mr pink shows up every couple months it seems

i don't remember the last time i've paid no tip because my wait person sucked. guess i'm just lucky. if you eat out a lot, whats the harm with making someone happy with a decent tip if they do a decent job its just a sign of respect,u respect me, i respect u. if ur cheap, don't go to places that require tip, its that simple

 

[Ferocious]

Some people are just misers.

And often get angry over nothing really to justify not tipping.

 

[KahunaHube]

i know this subject has been beaten through the ground.. but i am a server myself, and i think the #1 thing customers forget is that servers often have sections of at least 5 tables. If one table starts arguing, complaining, whatever.. it has a domino effect on the other tables' service. This is just one of the things that a server cannot control.

I believe that teamwork is the most important aspect in the restaurant business. Don't blame one person because if you take a look around its a group effort from the host to the server, chef, busboy, up to the manager. Each position has a direct effect on your service.

 

[ChefJoe]

If you're going to a place you'll frequent, be a generous tipper and you'll always get good service. When you get bad service, be polite and state your case, but don't sweat the small stuff (there are many behind-the-scenes factors). Most waitstaff realize completely what's "going wrong" but often have little power to correct the situation.

I was a waiter in a white tablecloth restaurant I'd cooked at one summer, was learning all about the "front of the house" operations. I was very conscious of where all my tables were at and where they should be, but when a rush comes and the kitchen is backed up and you're required to serve 6 tables, service suffers (at least with being new). Eventually you learn the shortcuts/simplifications and you learn what's wrong with tables, but when you get a poor cash tip with no explanation, it's nearly impossible to pinpoint where you really did drop the ball.

Yes, I'm now a very good tipper because of my experiences, but it's also important to talk to the waitstaff about what may be going wrong, your needs reguarding times/deadlines, etc. They are the people who get the cooks to make your food, make sure it gets to you as you desire, and are responsible for you having a pleasant experience this time and the future. Poor tippers are generally written off as "assholes" because they didn't talk with waitstaff about their needs and there are unspecific levels of "what went wrong" and good tippers are remembered (and often fought for by the experienced waitstaff when you make reservations).

 

[DAPUNISHER]

good tippers are remembered (and often fought for by the experienced waitstaff when you make reservations).

So true BTW, here's a tip for some of you, I worked as a sous chef for a few years and you as a patron should ask to tour the kitchen before dining in a restaurant for the first time so as to insure they run a sanitary place

 

[McCarthy]

A waitress/waiter has to deliver food from what, 30 feet away? Working indoors for the most part.

If they're going to get 10% then the UPS and Fedex drivers who trudge your Newegg purchases down the walk should get the same, shouldn't they?
Let's see, on a $159 video card that's only $16.
Seem ridiculous?

How about your mail carrier. Figure 4 pieces of mail each day at 25c each (mix of first class and bulk rate, mostly junkmail) would be say $300 taking Sundays and holidays off. So tip your mail carrier $30 a year.
Seem high?

How about your paperboy. Subscription here runs $130 a year, so $13 a year per customer would be about right. Finally we're at a level where it seems in line, even though it doesn't work out to nearly that much for most carriers. For someone who serves you six days a week, trudges through snow and rain, and if it's a morning paper has to get up at 5am to do it.

And yet people will still try to defend a 10% tip for carrying a plate 30 feet without even so much as one dog chasing after? Take it easy, I'm kidding.

Whole thing's whacked. Servers should be paid a decent wage to start with and be done with this tipping thing. I suspect eventually it'll be that way as I've noticed more and more people starting to question tipping. Would be better for all involved I say, food server knows up front what they're going to get paid and the customer can just pay their bill and leave without the bother of working out how much tip if any is necessary.

--Mc

 

[PlatinumGold]

there are a lot of more serious entitlement issues then the "tip" one.

man we have entire segments of our population that feel they are entitled to being fed by the government and you are upset because people who WORK for a living feel that they are entitled to more than the $3.00 / hour the restraunts pay them?

sure, you are probably right in saying that people are not entitled to tips, but it's not like they are asking for something for nothing.

like i said, this isn't a real issue to me. if i'm gonna attack the entitlements issue, then welfare, medicare, affirmative action etc those things come to mind. not whether or not people feel entitled to tips.

 

[KaBudokan]

REAL WORLD NEWS FLASH: The fact of the matter is that if you don't tip you won't receive the best service if you return to the same place. Will someone spit in your food? Probably not, but who knows.

I just "retired" from the service industry this past December after working as a valet parking attendant, busboy, waiter, and bartender for 14 years. I never spit in anyone's food or anything like that, and I honestly don't know of a single incident where someone did anywhere I worked.

However, I do know that people who don't tip get poor service. It IS expected, whether it's right or wrong. That is the simple reality of the situation. Deal with it. (Plus, I bet your girlfriend hides her head in shame when you leave without tipping; it's the surest sign that you have NO class at all...)

And just for reference, I can almost guarantee you that Nik (and 98% of the rest of you) could not have handled my bartending job at the place I worked for the last 5 years. Then again, I also averaged about $33/hour in the tips I made. Damn I'm good.

(And just for reference, I actually had to pay the company I worked for when they issued checks, because my wages didn't cover my benefits and the taxes I paid on tips.)

 

[ChefJoe]

Originally posted by: McCarthy
A waitress/waiter has to deliver food from what, 30 feet away? Working indoors for the most part. If they're going to get 10% then the UPS and Fedex drivers who trudge your Newegg purchases down the walk should get the same, shouldn't they? Let's see, on a $159 video card that's only $16. Seem ridiculous? How about your mail carrier. Figure 4 pieces of mail each day at 25c each (mix of first class and bulk rate, mostly junkmail) would be say $300 taking Sundays and holidays off. So tip your mail carrier $30 a year. Seem high? How about your paperboy. Subscription here runs $130 a year, so $13 a year per customer would be about right. Finally we're at a level where it seems in line, even though it doesn't work out to nearly that much for most carriers. For someone who serves you six days a week, trudges through snow and rain, and if it's a morning paper has to get up at 5am to do it. And yet people will still try to defend a 10% tip for carrying a plate 30 feet without even so much as one dog chasing after? Take it easy, I'm kidding. Whole thing's whacked. Servers should be paid a decent wage to start with and be done with this tipping thing. I suspect eventually it'll be that way as I've noticed more and more people starting to question tipping. Would be better for all involved I say, food server knows up front what they're going to get paid and the customer can just pay their bill and leave without the bother of working out how much tip if any is necessary. --Mc

Actually, in this age of computerized orders, a separated kitchen and front of the house (meaning you order food from the kitchen without directly speaking to the chef), and ccard charges, that alone accounts for a significant chunk of time per table (and per person if billed separately, it all has to be entered in so you get a nice ccard receipt). BTW, when you order a multi-course dinner, it's not the kitchen who makes sure your orders come up together (they try to help that happen) but it is the responsibility of the waitstaff to make sure the kitchen gets orders in approximately the right time so that the right courses come up together. I believe the mail carriers and others should well get a tip, if their wage was built on the expectation of one. The 10% tip is thus just making up for the minimum wage. If it takes a person 5 minutes of time on a computer entering in your orders and running ccards (that's actually very conservative estimate considering you have to actually go back into each entry at the end of the night and enter in the additional tip ammount for credit cards) and 10 minutes of time during the course of the meal to take your order, gather all the parts of the order (rarely is the kitchen going to have only one station for food pick-up), walk it out to you, make sure everything is ok with your table, clear plates during the meal, refills on drinks, dessert orders and bringing, etc, it all adds up to compensate a $2.40 or so hourly rate. Oh, and what you tip the server will go into the tip for the bartender and the pay for the bussers (they get the same low hourly rate). Don't knock the service industry as slouchers until you've done it.

Do you tip a valet for parking your car when you could well do it yourself if told where to park?

Yes, service is more professional than spitting in the food (at least where I worked) but it's a good server who can recognize a name or a face. We remember those that tip well and adjust the time we spend fussing about that person more than the person who didn't tip or tipped low when we were trying for them. From dennys to the best restaurants of New York, service isn't as simple as carrying food and if you really believe that you deserve all of the hard effort that your money will bring you.

Heh, a % set for a food service communism. I wonder if it'll work better than that idea did in Russia.

 

[ultimatebob]

Narzy's right... If the service totally sucks, the server is NOT entitled to big tip. Here's the scale that I use:

AWESOME service: 20% tip
Good to Average service: 12 to 15%
Below average service: 10%
Totally crappy service... 1 cent. I never leave nothing at all, because I don't want to come off as cheap.

 

[McCarthy]

ChefJoe, said I was kidding man...I really do think the entire system is wrong and tipping should be eliminated and no, not to stiff people, but because it's a bad system. Ok, rereading what I wrote I see I didn't do well, meant to be funny, not say people are slouches.

Just observing, it does seem that waiters/waitresses especially get defensive pretty quick on that point. Obviously there's more to it than carrying food thirty feet as I oversimplified in failed humor, but there's more to any job than it's simplest description. Just thinking it through in my mind and typing aloud here, but it seems the stigma/defense goes back to tipping as well. Some people view it as I badly described "just carrying food" and don't tip, and then the "does he/she deserve a tip" discussion that comes up at other tables. At which point the server hears themselves being described in the role of simple pack animal and gets irritated by it. Then if they're not in the mood to smile at the next table a viscious cycle develops. Ok, maybe I'm overthinking it now. There is something unique about the fraternal nature of current/former food service workers though.

Whatever the case, tip sharing is BULL. Like tipping, hate it, doesn't matter. The idea of the wait staff pooling their tips to average out or having to share them with the bussers is out of line. Again, bussing tables quickly and quietly doesn't sound like a fun and relaxing job and I'm not trying to insult them. With the cooks I can -kinda- see. But someone busting their ass and making good tips having to give half of their earnings away to the slacker who gets 1c "tips" all the time is too much. That's what the deal was in the one food service job I applied for, after finding out about that threw my application in their trashcan and walked out. Before then I never even thought about it, after that interview I've been against tipping completely.

Gawd, just hope my UPS guy doesn't read this.

--Mc

 

[GermyBoy]

Of course they aren't, but restaurants do it like that so you don't HAVE to pay more money than you need to for your food. They charge an arm and a leg anyways for food, but it they gave every worker an extra $5/hour just to live, then they would definately raise prices a LOT.

Think about what you are getting by eating out. Maybe next time you won't go out, and will have Pasta Sensations on your couch while watching tv? You shouldn't be such a nerdo cheapskate.

 

[Thegonagle]

Originally posted by: GermyBoy
Of course they aren't, but restaurants do it like that so you don't HAVE to pay more money than you need to for your food. They charge an arm and a leg anyways for food, but it they gave every worker an extra $5/hour just to live, then they would definately raise prices a LOT.

Actually, assuming this isn't Denny's we're talking about, they'd need to pay the workers an extra $10-15+ above and beyond their measly $3/hr in order to have the level of service beyond that of fast food that diners are expecting.

 

[Geekbabe]

Originally posted by: Blain
I was out with some friends for dinner. All the orders were taken and everything was going well. I ordered a cajun shrimp dish. The waitress brought me a cajun chicken dish.
That's cool, everybody makes mistakes. She returned to our table several times to fill drinks and tell me "it won't be much longer". There were seven people in our party. Basically everyone was finished with their meals before I finally got my cajun shrimp dish. I was steamed to say the least, because we had been there for quite some time. She did say that she was sorry it took so long but no "free on us" meal or even a free dessert "on us".

I was not rude to her at all. If I hadn't left any tip, she might have thought I just forgot. So I left her a 25 cent tip.
Did that send her the right signal?

The person you need to deal with in such a situation is the restaurant manager! The waitress cannot control what happens in the kitchen, nor can she head back there and cook the food herself.You punished an otherwise attentive waitress by stiffing her on a party of 7 for what was most likely a mistake beyond her control. !

 

[Skibby9]

Maybe the whole system is screwed up...
Where I live, tipping is a foreign concept-- no one expects tips. Taxi drivers have your coin change ready as fast as you can pull out paper currency to pay the fare. The servers in the restaurants give you what you ask for and expect you to pay exactly the price stated on the menu. In fact, I once asked for something not offered at a particular restaurant. The lady working there asked me for some cash, went next door and got the item, and brought my change back. No tip was ever expected.

Where I live, if they felt entitled to more money, they would just raise the menu price of the food. Offering extra money is taken as an insult (something about not knowing how to run a business...). All the restaurant owners know that if anything sucks about their place, the customers will patronize other establishments. So they do the best they can. And they set the price. How they pay the employees is their business.

There are exceptions, like taking a cab to another city in the middle of the night, but of course the fare is negotiated before the service is rendered.

BTW live in Korea.
*caveat-- tipping is expected (rudely) only where foreigners push their culture on local establishments. But you don't have to tip. The service in such places is exactly the same, tipping or not.
**2nd caveat -- I mainly stick to low-budget places (entree under $20), not the places where people go just to show off their wealth. Perhaps in such places tipping would be adviseable.

 

[NikPreviousAcct]

Just thought I would let you know that I had terrible service on Monday at a restaurant at the beach. When we were seated, a lady next to us was there for 10 minutes after the rest of her group left. TEN MINUTES without eating, drinking, or doing much of anything. Ten minutes before one of the workers stopped and asked how her meal was going. She had been sitting there waiting for a box and a bill for ten minutes.

When Chelsea and I were served, we had to ask for water. We didn't get any other sort of interaction. the place got busy after that, but there was plenty of time for them to tend to us, and they didn't. I gave tip. Granted, I made the tip something like $3.xx to make the bill even, but I gave a tip. She didn't deserve it. If you get a paycheck, that's your income. I just don't understand how people can get a job and expect to have their income come from someone else's CHOICE to pay from their own pocketbook -extra from what they ordered- then get pissed when they don't get what they don't deserve.

nik

 

[pyonir]

Originally posted by: ffmcobaltwe had to ask for water.

i would say easily 95% of the resturants i have gone to in the last 5 years have not brought you water. you have to ask for it. so much water would go to waste when you just brought a glass for everyone, and no one drank it.

Edit: i don't expect to be served water when i go out.