Tips for new PC

[mfenn]

Hello,

I thought I had my final setup for my new PC, but some information has been brought to my attention which indicates that an i7 875K + a good P55 chipset motherboard would be a better choice instead of the original, i7 930 + ASUS P6TD Deluxe.

A friend of mine says that the high end P55 motherboards have memory controllers which are faster than the one in the CPU. The max speed on the 930 with a X85 mobo is 25.6gb/s which the cpu can work with the memory. Although the P55's memory controller with a... lets say 8GB DDR3 2000 memory in dual mode will have 2x16GB/s speed which is 32GB/s.. much more that the 25.6GB/s.

I`m kind of lost here, and the info might not be very clear. I`d like to sort this out.
This person says that I can run DDR 1600 or even 2000 memory much faster on a P55 platform than on a X58 one. This is because of the memory controller which is on the P55 mobo. The X58 doesn`t have such a memory controller.

I`d appriciate if someone could shed some light on this matter.
Thank you!

First off, the memory controllers on all Nehalem architecture processors (that includes P55 and X58) are built onto the CPU, so the motherboard makes no difference. Regarding the memory bandwidth, LGA 1156 parts (those are the ones that work on the P55) officially support DDR3 1333 while LGA 1366 parts (those work on the X58) only officially support DDR3 1066. However, both can clock much higher. The memory controller in the LGA 1366 parts is also triple-channel versus the dual-channel on the LGA 1156 parts.

This discussion of memory bandwidth is pretty much irrelevant for 95% of (non-server) workloads though. I agree with your friend that you should go for 1156 over 1366, but solely because you can get a higher-clocked 1156 part for the same total platform cost as an equivalent 1366 part. The difference between available memory bandwidths doesn't even factor into the argument IMHO.

I didn't mention this before because the very thought of going 1156 will incite a few members of this forum to ridiculous thread-crapping (some sort of fanboy heresy I suppose), but since you brought it up...

 

[bigboym]

Thanks for the response and for clearing this up.

Ok, so, finally: which combination would YOU recommend? I need it for 3D work, rendering, etc. The PC needs to be stable and last for at least 2-3 years. It will have to endure many many nights of long, hard rendering. Stability is very important!

Intel Core i7 875K + Asus P7P55D-E Premium OR Intel Core i7 930 + ASUS P6TD Deluxe ?

 

[Arcanedeath]

The I7 875K is somewhat faster if you are not overclocking at stock speed vs i7 930 but you lose tripple channel and can only fit 8GB of ram using 2GB dimms so I belive at least in your case the I7 930 is a better choice as it gets you 12GB of DDR3 vs only 8 with the I7 875k if you stick with 2GB dimms as 4GB dimms are very expensive

 

[mfenn]

Thanks for the response and for clearing this up.

Ok, so, finally: which combination would YOU recommend? I need it for 3D work, rendering, etc. The PC needs to be stable and last for at least 2-3 years. It will have to endure many many nights of long, hard rendering. Stability is very important!

Intel Core i7 875K + Asus P7P55D-E Premium OR Intel Core i7 930 + ASUS P6TD Deluxe ?

Assuming equivalent cost and no overclocking, I would actually recommend the 870 because it is just as fast as the 875K at stock and is cheaper. If you're going overclock (probably not what I would do on a rig that needs to be super-stable), the the 875K is better because of the unlocked multiplier.

 

[Sp12]

The I7 875K is somewhat faster if you are not overclocking at stock speed vs i7 930 but you lose tripple channel and can only fit 8GB of ram using 2GB dimms so I belive at least in your case the I7 930 is a better choice as it gets you 12GB of DDR3 vs only 8 with the I7 875k if you stick with 2GB dimms as 4GB dimms are very expensive

Look at the 870/875K's turbo. 3.6. I7 930? 3.06.

870/75K is definitely a better proc.

 

[mfenn]

The I7 875K is somewhat faster if you are not overclocking at stock speed vs i7 930 but you lose tripple channel and can only fit 8GB of ram using 2GB dimms so I belive at least in your case the I7 930 is a better choice as it gets you 12GB of DDR3 vs only 8 with the I7 875k if you stick with 2GB dimms as 4GB dimms are very expensive

Old info.

2x2GB DDR3 1333 Ripjaws - $89
1x4GB DDR3 1333 Ripjaws - $100

 

[bigboym]

I definetly don`t want to lose the 12GB of rams... More ram in 3D applications is awesome. I DO like to overclock jsut a bit, but I heard that the i930 is quite good in this territory as well. A friend of mine bought a very nice cooler on his i930 and was able to overclock it to 4GHz. Now, I don`t want to reach the 4GHz mark, but..lets say..a 3.2-3.4GHz clock speed wouldn`t be bad at all. I think the i930 can manage that... I maybe wrong though.

I`d stick with the 875k but the fact that P55 boards can "only" support 8GB of rams really makes me want to stick with the x58 + i930 combo.

 

[jchu14]

I definetly don`t want to lose the 12GB of rams... More ram in 3D applications is awesome. I DO like to overclock jsut a bit, but I heard that the i930 is quite good in this territory as well. A friend of mine bought a very nice cooler on his i930 and was able to overclock it to 4GHz. Now, I don`t want to reach the 4GHz mark, but..lets say..a 3.2-3.4GHz clock speed wouldn`t be bad at all. I think the i930 can manage that... I maybe wrong though.

I`d stick with the 875k but the fact that P55 boards can "only" support 8GB of rams really makes me want to stick with the x58 + i930 combo.

The 870 or 875 will overclock just as well as the 930. The 875 is actually the easiest to overclock due to its unlocked multipliers. 3.2-3.4GHz will be easy for any of these processors.

Why so much money for the motherboard? You can get a good P55 with one PCI-Express 16x slot (assuming no plans to SLI/Crossfire) like the ASUS P7P55D-E LX for much less money. With the money you saved, you could get 4 sticks of 4gb and get 16GB of RAM.

 

[mfenn]

I`d stick with the 875k but the fact that P55 boards can "only" support 8GB of rams really makes me want to stick with the x58 + i930 combo.

Did you read my post? Most every P55 boards supports 16GB.

The 870 or 875 will overclock just as well as the 930. The 875 is actually the easiest to overclock due to its unlocked multipliers. 3.2-3.4GHz will be easy for any of these processors.

Why so much money for the motherboard? You can get a good P55 with one PCI-Express 16x slot (assuming no plans to SLI/Crossfire) like the ASUS P7P55D-E LX for much less money. With the money you saved, you could get 4 sticks of 4gb and get 16GB of RAM.

:thumbsup:

 

[bigboym]

Hello again,

I've come to the point where I'm about to buy my new PC, maybe I'll order it tomorrow, although I do want to check other people's opinion about the parts I'll be buying.

So here is the setup:

CPU : Intel Core i7 930
Mobo : ASUS Sabertooth TUF X58
Memory : 12GB (6x2GB) Corsair XMS3 Classic DDR3 PC3-12800 (1600) NonECC Unbuffered, CAS 9-9-9-24, XMP, 1.60V
Graphics Card : 1GB MSI GTX 460 Cyclone, 3600MHz GDDR5, GPU 725MHz, Shader Clock 1350MHz, 336 Cores
HDD : 2x 1TB Samsung HD103SJ Spinpoint F3, SATA 3Gb/s, 7200rpm, 32MB Cache, 8.9 ms - going to use these in RAID for extra speed
SSD : 128GB Corsair Nova Series 64MB DDR2, 2.5" SSD, SATA II, Read 270MB/s, Write 195MB/s
PSU : 650W Corsair Professional CMPSU-650HXUK, Modular PSU with 80PLUS Bronze Certification
Case : Asus TA-D21
Monitor : 23" Dell Ultrasharp U2311H Widescreen LCD, 1920x1080, IPS panel

Cost: £ 1,400

Source: http://www.scan.co.uk/

I want to use this rig mainly for 3D professional work, using programs like Autodesk Maya and 3D Studio Max, Adobe Premier and Photoshop, After Effects, ZBrush etc.
Main thing I need is speed in renders and during my work. During 3D work I usually use textures with very high resolutions (above 3000x3000) so my system gets under heavy loads. What I need is very fast HDD and RAM as well.
Gaming isn't very important, although it wouldn't hurt to run a few games on max settings..don't need resolutions above 1440x900.
Main thing: RENDERING and LOAD SPEED.
Don't really want to overclock although I did hear that with a decent cooler and a small OC you can get a nice performance upgrade out of this CPU.

Will this rig do or could I get anything better for the same price?

Thanks!

 

[betasub]

I think you'll do fine with your latest choice.

The comments above about going LGA 1156 with an i7 still apply: you can get slightly higher performance for less money (and spend the extra on max-ing out RAM at 16GB). But LGA 1366 is still solid - perhaps you can find a triple stick kit of 4GB DIMMs, rather than filling all six slots with 2GB DIMMs?

 

[fffblackmage]

Wow... there doesn't seem to be many choices for ram at that site. I was going to recommend RAM that uses 1.5V, but you could always get what you picked and run them on JEDEC standard timings and voltage anyways.

A 400W-500W PSU would also be sufficient. Maybe this: Corsair Builder 430W Power Supply

I would also recommend getting a Sandforce-based SSD, but the OCZ Vertex 2 seems to be out of stock (pre-order?) on that site....

 

[betasub]

N/M

 

[mfenn]

I still think that you'd be better off with an 1156 system and putting the savings towards RAM.

Regarding the SSD, I second Sandforce. The Vertex 2 is OOS, but the Corsair Force 120GB which is also a Sandforce.

 

[bigboym]

Hmmm, this might sound lazy of me, but actually i`m not in the loop with hardware nowadays, so can you please recommend a setup for me based on 1156 socket? Same price range...

Thank you very much

 

[bigboym]

With a 875k OC Unlocked CPU and a ASUS P7P55D mobo the cost is -20£. Is it more worth it?

Btw do 2x 1TB Western Digital WD1002FAEX Caviar Black, SATA 6Gb/s, 7200rpm, 64MB Cache, 8 ms work good together in RAID 0?

http://www.scan.co.uk/Products/1TB-W...4MB-Cache-8-ms

 

[fffblackmage]

For LGA1156, I'd pick the i7-860. That would save you about 52£ compared to the i7-875K.

And for ram, you could probably get two sets of these: Corsair Memory XMS3 8GB DDR3 PC3-10600 (1333) Dual Channel Desktop

 

[betasub]

The i7-875k is worth it if you want easy overclocking of the CPU without playing around with bus and memory speeds/voltages. The i7-860/870 are cheaper and overclock equally well if you are prepared to change a few more settings in BIOS

 

[mfenn]

For LGA1156, I'd pick the i7-860. That would save you about 52£ compared to the i7-875K.

And for ram, you could probably get two sets of these: Corsair Memory XMS3 8GB DDR3 PC3-10600 (1333) Dual Channel Desktop

:thumbsup:

The 875K has too much of a premium over the locked multi's to be worth it.

You can RAID0 two FAEXs, but an SSD will still be way faster.

 

[Davidh373]

You guys aren't really thinking about rendering. The i7 9xx series is much better for 3D rendering and Raytracing than an 8xx. This is the one place it's worth spending the extra $100 or so (or pounds).

Case
http://www.scan.co.uk/products/Antec...g-Case-w-o-PSU

PSU
http://www.scan.co.uk/Products/650w-...6-Sata-2-PCI-e

Motherboard
http://www.scan.co.uk/Products/1Giga...and-SATA-6Gb-s

Processor
http://www.scan.co.uk/products/Intel...io-130W-Retail

RAM
http://www.scan.co.uk/Products/6GB-(...-9-9-9-24-165V

Graphics (believe me... you'll want the extra memory)
http://www.scan.co.uk/Products/1280M...2xDVImini-HDMI

Optical
http://www.scan.co.uk/Products/Samsu...D-ROM-SATA-OEM

SSD
http://www.scan.co.uk/Products/60GB-...-Write-275MB-s

HDD
http://www.scan.co.uk/products/ss1TB...-89-ms-NCQ-OEM

Total: 952.92 with VAT

If you would like you can spend around 30-50 more and get Xeon server grade parts

Motherboard
http://www.scan.co.uk/Products/Tyan-...3Gb-s-RAID-ATX

Xeon 2.8Ghz
http://www.scan.co.uk/Products/Intel...he-130W-Retail

EDIT: http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/108?vs=47

100 for Windows 7 Pro

200 for monitor and you're over budget, sorry...

You'll notice when you get to the 3DS Max stuff it gets close to even, but when you get to raytracing and video rendering it is far better, and that's the lower clocked 920. The 930 would be more of an even comparison, but they don't have it benched...

 

[betasub]

David, what's the technical reason why "the i7 9xx series is much better for 3D rendering and Raytracing than an 8xx"? Just trying to understand.

 

[piasabird]

Maybe they are suggesting using the DDR3 RAM in the Triple Channel sets. So the processors probably have the Tripple Channel Controller. So then you have to purchase a motherboard that is a little more expensive. With Triple Channel RAM, you can put a lot of RAM in your workstation.

It may not make sense to buy a Gulftown capable motherboard unless you are going to get the 6 core Intel Processor for around $999.00. I could never afford any of the EE (Extreme) processors. Maybe it will come down in price or they will make a more mainstream 6 core soon.

 

[fffblackmage]

David, what's the technical reason why "the i7 9xx series is much better for 3D rendering and Raytracing than an 8xx"? Just trying to understand.

Ah, I guess this is where the i7-8xx and i7-9xx differs. I remember reading about the QPI used in the i7-9xx series, but that was replaced by the DMI for the more mainstream LGA1156 processors, a tradeoff for the on-die PCIe controller. Maybe that has something to do with it, in addition to the triple channel memory.

Here's the Anandtech article.

edit: I'm not sure the article actually really explains it... I kinda looked through it pretty quick, but I only caught the part about how the architecture differs.

 

[bigboym]

Hey,

I have bought the I7 930 system with the http://www.scan.co.uk/Products/8GB-(...d-CAS-9-9-9-24 memory sticks.

Thing is that these memory stick just wont work with the Sabertooth x58 mobo. The DIMM LED keeps flashing meaning there is incompatibility between the mobo and ram. I have already written to scan.co.uk .. waiting for their response, but I didn`t see these RAM's on ASUS' memory support list, also I have just read that these sticks are for Phenom platforms but I`m not too sure on that.

I just can`t boot my system up. Tried using the MemOK! function which tries to tune the memorys to work with the mobo, but no luck whatsoever.

Any tips?

 

[FishAk]

You are doing 3D work on only 1 monitor? Ouch! That will be painful. Much better is 2, 32" monitors, so you can put your view-ports on one, and your tools on another.