Time to get rid of the takeout slide at second base

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Blackjack200

Lifer
May 28, 2007
15,995
1,688
126
Just a coincidence, tough luck. Maybe those star shortstops are overpaid/overrated if they got decommissioned by a gimmick like that. Its possible the backup shortstop could be just as good or better. You need to be more optimistic, instead of doom and gloom.

I'm not a Mets fan, so I don't give a fuck if the backup is better or worse. I am, however, optimistic that the league will learn from this and fix a clearly broken rule.

You still haven't explained how allowing deliberate interference on this type of play should be okay while not on other plays. Still waiting tough guy.

Wait, so now he's a victim?

A vitim of a dirty slide.
 

Phoenix86

Lifer
May 21, 2003
14,644
10
81
Who gives a crap? Baseball is in the same category of least violent activities out of all North American sports. Changing one play because someone got hurt on one play out of thousands is just silly.

You got this all backwards, forget the injuries.

Sliding to the bag? I'm fine with that. Sliding to the bag and making contact with the defense? OK, cool.

Sliding to the defender? Why should it be allowed in the first place?
 

rh71

No Lifer
Aug 28, 2001
52,844
1,049
126
To me there is a diffrence between going into the base hard and going 2 ft outside of it and into someone like he did.

trying to take out and hurt a player in baseball should not be allowed.

Yup this - your principal target should be the bag and if the 2B/SS skillfully uses it as a shield, then you're outta luck as far as taking him out. The rule or interpretation of it that merely requires the player to be able to reach the bag while taking out the defender should be tossed.

A play at the plate? Go ahead and hit a catcher with all the appropriate gear, who is also ready for contact should he be blocking the plate.

Need to protect vulnerable players, regardless of what happened here.

Just watched the replay again, that'd be illegal in fricken hockey, let alone baseball. There is little give with cleats on. What a dirtbag move. I wish Utley's head took more of Tejada's knee as a result of his own actions.
 
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Chaosblade02

Senior member
Jul 21, 2011
304
0
0
I'm not a Mets fan, so I don't give a fuck if the backup is better or worse. I am, however, optimistic that the league will learn from this and fix a clearly broken rule.

I think there are more rationally minded people in the league who will put things into perspective from a statistics standpoint and argue the merits of leaving the rule as it is based on people getting emotional and not putting things into proper context. I'd like to think that grown men are at least capable of making decisions based on logic, and not emotion. But society has gotten intensely pussified in the last 15-20 years, and they might very well be looking to appease emotionally effeminate butthurt queens like you.

You still haven't explained how allowing deliberate interference on this type of play should be okay while not on other plays. Still waiting tough guy.
You used emotion based hyperbole as a failed attempt at an analogy that doesn't make any sense. Comparing apples and oranges.

A vitim of a dirty slide.
It was a legitimate play that resulted in somebody getting hurt. Shit happens.
 

smackababy

Lifer
Oct 30, 2008
27,024
79
86
Yup this - your principal target should be the bag and if the 2B/SS skillfully uses it as a shield, then you're outta luck as far as taking him out. The rule or interpretation of it that merely requires the player to be able to reach the bag while taking out the defender should be tossed.

A play at the plate? Go ahead and hit a catcher with all the appropriate gear, and is ready for it.

Need to protect vulnerable players, regardless of what happened here.

Just watched the replay again, that'd be illegal in fricken hockey, let alone baseball. What a dirtbag move. I wish Utley's head took more of Tejada's knee as a result of his own actions.

So, runners aren't allowed to try and dodge potential tag attempts? When we start talking about how they can slide and how the way they can enter the base, it just gets ridiculous.

I am not saying that happened in this case, but this still wasn't a hugely dirty play. The runner slid to the side of the bag, which his hand out to tag the base, and someone got hurt. Let's make them all wear huge bubble wrap suits! That way no freak injuries ever! Hurray!
 

rh71

No Lifer
Aug 28, 2001
52,844
1,049
126
So, runners aren't allowed to try and dodge potential tag attempts? When we start talking about how they can slide and how the way they can enter the base, it just gets ridiculous.

I am not saying that happened in this case, but this still wasn't a hugely dirty play. The runner slid to the side of the bag, which his hand out to tag the base, and someone got hurt. Let's make them all wear huge bubble wrap suits! That way no freak injuries ever! Hurray!

Did you not see him go out of his way to take out his one planted leg with his entire body weight? I don't think I'm asking for bubble wrap here. A runner sliding into second unable to reach the defender because of strategic placement of his body sounds like a baseball play to me. What he actually did was worse than football and hockey. And I play hockey multiple times a week. This intentional contact to a vulnerable player at 2B should not be allowed in baseball. So we change what makes him vulnerable, exactly what was described.

You can go on and on about how defenders often don't get hurt on double plays, but it is because they see it coming and can be proactive about it. This existing rule allowed this to happen because it is not foreseen (someone completely turned around). Change it.

Speaking of recently changed rules due to players getting hurt... hybrid icing. Not even hockey purests would argue that was a bad decision.
 
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JujuFish

Lifer
Feb 3, 2005
11,437
1,053
136
the hooking and intereference that was allowed in ice hockey until 10 years ago
Until 10 years ago? That shit goes on every game these days. It's one of the reasons scoring is so low now compared to the first few seasons after the lockout.
 

Phoenix86

Lifer
May 21, 2003
14,644
10
81
I think there are more rationally minded people in the league who will put things into perspective from a statistics standpoint and argue the merits of leaving the rule as it is based on people getting emotional and not putting things into proper context. I'd like to think that grown men are at least capable of making decisions based on logic, and not emotion. But society has gotten intensely pussified in the last 15-20 years, and they might very well be looking to appease emotionally effeminate butthurt queens like you.

You used emotion based hyperbole as a failed attempt at an analogy that doesn't make any sense. Comparing apples and oranges.

It was a legitimate play that resulted in somebody getting hurt. Shit happens.

Oh look, it's cute when it thinks it's being rational and non-emotional.

Rationalize sliding to the baseman and not the bag w/o emotion.

It's a legitimate play that should be changed because sliding to the bag is the goal to base running.
 

Phoenix86

Lifer
May 21, 2003
14,644
10
81
dude this is fucking AMERICA.


Let's give them guns.

Pistols should be reserved for football, ala Last Boy Scout. One round per player?

Maybe start with knifes in the first half, swords/spears in the 3rd quarter, guns in the 4th? Let's make 'murica great again.
 

Blackjack200

Lifer
May 28, 2007
15,995
1,688
126
I think there are more rationally minded people in the league who will put things into perspective from a statistics standpoint and argue the merits of leaving the rule as it is based on people getting emotional and not putting things into proper context. I'd like to think that grown men are at least capable of making decisions based on logic, and not emotion. But society has gotten intensely pussified in the last 15-20 years, and they might very well be looking to appease emotionally effeminate butthurt queens like you.

Oh how cute, using pussy and effeminate as pejoratives. Why don't you just call him a queer little lovely human? You've failed to provide a logical reason that a baserunner should be allowed to target a player rather than the base. The problem here is that you don't know shit about baseball, so you don't understand why this rule is inconsistent with the rest of the game.

http://www.theoleballgame.com/baseball-rules-first-base-running-lane.html
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/playoffs2004/news/story?id=1905510

See? Baseball has long prevented baserunners from gaining advantage by interfering with the fielder. I would not have a problem if baseball evolved to be more like football, with players wearing some level of protection, and contact being encouraged. Then you would not see 150 lb. waifs playing shortstop, they'd look like linebackers.

You used emotion based hyperbole as a failed attempt at an analogy that doesn't make any sense. Comparing apples and oranges.

You still can't explain the difference because there is none. Just admit it.

It was a legitimate play that resulted in somebody getting hurt. Shit happens.

Technically already against the rules, my guess is that next year it will be enforced.
 

Chaosblade02

Senior member
Jul 21, 2011
304
0
0
Oh how cute, using pussy and effeminate as pejoratives. Why don't you just call him a queer little lovely human?

Gays happen to be protected groups on these forums. And your homophobia disturbs me.

You've failed to provide a logical reason that a baserunner should be allowed to target a player rather than the base.
I provided a reason in my first post. Its a strategy used to break up a double play. Its part of the game, it has been part of the game for a very long time, and statistically there isn't much risk of injury.

The problem here is that you don't know shit about baseball, so you don't understand why this rule is inconsistent with the rest of the game.

See? Baseball has long prevented baserunners from gaining advantage by interfering with the fielder. I would not have a problem if baseball evolved to be more like football, with players wearing some level of protection, and contact being encouraged. Then you would not see 150 lb. waifs playing shortstop, they'd look like linebackers.
The line is there to provide the umpires with a visual guide with which to make a decision.


It is also there as a guide for the batter-runner to know at what point he must be in that running lane, so as not to be called for interference. The line begins half way to first base, distance dependent upon the dimensions of the field.
Dude? Did you even read the links you posted? A large part of the reason for the baseline rule was to make sure umpires could more easily see the play, while at the same time keeping the player from doing something like trying to block the pass directly. Etc, I see the pass coming so I'm gonna jump outside the line with the intention of blocking the pass with my body. Sliding in the direction of a 2nd baseman isn't directly interrupting the pass, because the player isn't placing themselves within the trajectory of the pass. All the baseman has to do is move, or jump & throw. You don't see a difference because you're a knucklehead. There might be a fine line. but fine lines are often the difference between legal and illegal, or even right from wrong.

Technically already against the rules, my guess is that next year it will be enforced.
No its not, or they'd be calling it right now. You're stupid if you think you know more about the rules than the officials on the fields do.

All you could do is quote me 2 occurrences in the entire 2015 season, over 2400 games total where someone got injured from a slide. All bullshit aside, nobody can argue with statistics. The fact is, its not that dangerous. Mistakes are made and people get hurt occasionally.

you stole the alky green giant as your profile pic, so

automatic internet tough guy

*brofist*
 
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feralkid

Lifer
Jan 28, 2002
16,858
4,972
136
*brofist*




500px-Sauers.png


"Take a salt tablet."
 

rh71

No Lifer
Aug 28, 2001
52,844
1,049
126
Utley suspended two games

Sounds good to me as long as the appeal allowing him to play anyway is denied. This should extinguish any attempts at payback.

"However, after thoroughly reviewing the play from all conceivable angles, I have concluded that Mr. Utley's action warrants discipline. While I sincerely believe that Mr. Utley had no intention of injuring Ruben Tejada, and was attempting to help his Club in a critical situation, I believe his slide was in violation of Official Baseball Rule 5.09 (a)(13), which is designed to protect fielders from precisely this type of rolling block that occurs away from the base.

So there is a rule in there...

"We have been in discussions with the Players Association throughout the year regarding potential rule changes to better protect middle infielders, and we intend to continue those discussions this offseason."

Wiser people speaking there than here. This is fricken baseball. Skill, strategy, and precision should shine above all else.
 
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KK

Lifer
Jan 2, 2001
15,903
4
81
If it is legal for the base runner to slide only with the purpose of taking out the defense, then it should be legal for the defense to kick as fucking hard as they can at the base runners head. Couple of cleats to the noggin will stop that shit cold.
 

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
70,784
6,342
126
Don't care much for Baseball, but damn that's a dirty play. As rh mentioned above, something like that in Hockey will get you tossed out of the game and auto-reviewed for Suspension and Hockey is a sport where violence is part of the game. Non-violence is what sets Baseball apart.
 

Blackjack200

Lifer
May 28, 2007
15,995
1,688
126
Don't care much for Baseball, but damn that's a dirty play. As rh mentioned above, something like that in Hockey will get you tossed out of the game and auto-reviewed for Suspension and Hockey is a sport where violence is part of the game. Non-violence is what sets Baseball apart.

Baseball is funny in that it's generally a non-contact sport but there are these one off situations where contact has been allowed and the players took it to comic lengths.

Noted racist shitbag Ty Cobb "sliding" into home plate:

cobb_dropkick.jpg


It's hilarious to me that this shit is called "playing hard" and "playing the right way". What a joke. Nobody ever says those things when players put their own bodies on the line (full extension dive, etc.) only when they take a cheap shot. It's just cheating.
 

MongGrel

Lifer
Dec 3, 2013
38,466
3,067
121
If it is legal for the base runner to slide only with the purpose of taking out the defense, then it should be legal for the defense to kick as fucking hard as they can at the base runners head. Couple of cleats to the noggin will stop that shit cold.

This.