Three Muslim Students Murdered at UNC

[rudeguy]

The VAST majority of murders in the US believe in Christ, so I guess they thought the same thing.

Please post evidence of this. I'll even overlook the typo just because I'm really interested to know if its true or just a guess.

 

[oobydoobydoo]

which thread do I post in and which do I ignore?

 

[Darwin333]

Some people seem to think that murdering someone for race is worse than murdering someone for a parking spot.

I don't, but many do. Its why we have hate crimes. Punishments for crimes is not enough, when you can extra punish.

Because this is America dammit and in America we are the best at everything, including locking people up! We have a clean 50% of the worlds prisoners despite having 5% of the worlds population, gotta keep up with population growth!

 

[Darwin333]

Please post evidence of this. I'll even overlook the typo just because I'm really interested to know if its true or just a guess.

Thanks for pointing out the typo, and I'll post some stuff after my bid but simple demographics leads to the conclusion.

 

[rudeguy]

Thanks for pointing out the typo, and I'll post some stuff after my bid but simple demographics leads to the conclusion.

If you have anything, I'd love to see it. I'm not saying you are wrong, just that I've never saw anything that agrees with you.

 

[schmuckley]

Please post evidence of this. I'll even overlook the typo just because I'm really interested to know if its true or just a guess.

Preliminary search reveals 0 statistics on this and couple of shoddy pieces.
like "LA murder rate highest"
Louisiana that is..
"A lot of people go to church in Louisiana so that must be why their murder rate is highest"

or could it be because of organized crime/corrupt police/corrupt politicians 😱

Which I believe LA also has the highest rate of.

 

[Subyman]

which thread do I post in and which do I ignore?

Post in both, have a different opinion in each. Keep it interesting.

 

[rudeguy]

Post in both, have a different opinion in each. Keep it interesting.

I love you.

 

[realibrad]

If you have anything, I'd love to see it. I'm not saying you are wrong, just that I've never saw anything that agrees with you.

I am at work, so some links are blocked, but this should help.

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friend...ists-its-a-lot-smaller-than-we-ever-imagined/

Apparently in 2013 the writer asked for the info and got it.

 

[rudeguy]

I am at work, so some links are blocked, but this should help.

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friend...ists-its-a-lot-smaller-than-we-ever-imagined/

Apparently in 2013 the writer asked for the info and got it.

That's for all prisoners at that time, not just murderers and doesn't include people already released. Also : The percentages did not take into account prisoners whose religious affiliations were unknown or who did not respond at all.

 

[Darwin333]

Preliminary search reveals 0 statistics on this and couple of shoddy pieces.
like "LA murder rate highest"
Louisiana that is..
"A lot of people go to church in Louisiana so that must be why their murder rate is highest"

or could it be because of organized crime/corrupt police/corrupt politicians 😱

Which I believe LA also has the highest rate of.

The point is actually it has absolutely nothing to do with religion or lack of. A certain portion of any given society are going to be assholes, especially if given the right situation/environment. If a majority of that's society, especially those in the right situation/environment are X type of people then a majority of the assholes are usually X type of people.

You put Amish people on an island and all crime there will be committed by Amish people. The vast majority of the US believes in Christ in some form or fashion, something the right likes to talk about a lot going so far as to call us a "Christian nation". They like to talk about black folk too and somewhere between 85-90% of them believe in Christ in some form or fashion. You can't argue that an overwhelming majority of the assholes come from that 10-15%.

Like I said, it really has nothing to do with religion and religion is rarely used as a reason in the US which was my point.

 

[rudeguy]

The point is actually it has absolutely nothing to do with religion or lack of. A certain portion of any given society are going to be assholes, especially if given the right situation/environment. If a majority of that's society, especially those in the right situation/environment are X type of people then a majority of the assholes are usually X type of people.

You put Amish people on an island and all crime there will be committed by Amish people. The vast majority of the US believes in Christ in some form or fashion, something the right likes to talk about a lot going so far as to call us a "Christian nation". They like to talk about black folk too and somewhere between 85-90% of them believe in Christ in some form or fashion. You can't argue that an overwhelming majority of the assholes come from that 10-15%.

Like I said, it really has nothing to do with religion and religion is rarely used as a reason in the US which was my point.

Let me clear this up:

Previous poster said this guy was an atheist who killed, so killing agreed with his morals.
You countered that point was incorrect because Christians murdered too and killing doesn't agree with their morals.

You point was that killing is/should be against anyone's morals and wasn't meant to say that the majority of murderers are Christian?

 

[schmuckley]

I'm not sure what Darwin333 is saying..
It seems to have a lack of coherence.
Hey Look! Objective morality! 😀

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Like I said, it really has nothing to do with religion and religion is rarely used as a reason in the US which was my point.

We have no idea if it has to do with religion, but if it turns out that these three were killed because they were Muslims not parking as the killer liked, it certainly is about religion.

 

[JD50]

I'm not sure what Darwin333 is saying..
It seems to have a lack of coherence.
Hey Look! Objective morality! 😀

Actually I find it pretty scary that you need a 2,000 old book to tell you what is right and wrong. Like Penn said, "I murder all I want, and the amount I want is zero"

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Actually I find it pretty scary that you need a 2,000 old book to tell you what is right and wrong. Like Penn said, "I murder all I want, and the amount I want is zero"

Looks like Hicks should have read the old book because he certainly didn't listen to Penn.

 

[realibrad]

Looks like Hicks should have read the old book because he certainly didn't listen to Penn.

The point of the quote is that morality does not objectively come from religion. His argument is that it comes from humanity and something that nature has instilled through evolution. Its logical to think that a tribe who raped and murdered everyone would be killed off. Its hard to have a population when everyone is murdered off right?

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

The point of the quote is that morality does not objectively come from religion. His argument is that it comes from humanity and something that nature has instilled through evolution. Its logical to think that a tribe who raped and murdered everyone would be killed off. Its hard to have a population when everyone is murdered off right?

"We kill" is axiomatic. Whence morality comes doesn't alter that, however we tend to identify with groups, since we are social animals. Being "of" results in protection from that group while "not of" can result in the opposite. We see that when packs or troops attack others at a higher rate than they would internally. We see social domination which can lead to death, but this is part of who gets to pass their genes on to the next generation and provide a social structure.

We as humans are subject to the same pressures, however that can be mitigated by our intellect. I don't have to want to kill Muslims. I don't have to define them as being external to the values I embrace and therefore a threat, but we do go through this process. Murderers are "not us", ISIS is "not us" and we are far more likely to take action against them.

"We kill" but with selectivity in most cases, making assessments of others and acting on how we value things and people.

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

Actually I find it pretty scary that you need a 2,000 old book to tell you what is right and wrong. Like Penn said, "I murder all I want, and the amount I want is zero"

I agree with his point. However, if he was asked that question once or maybe twice I might believe him. But I highly doubt that he gets asked that question "all the time". I strongly suspect that he lies all he wants as well.

 

[realibrad]

"We kill" is axiomatic. Whence morality comes doesn't alter that, however we tend to identify with groups, since we are social animals. Being "of" results in protection from that group while "not of" can result in the opposite. We see that when packs or troops attack others at a higher rate than they would internally. We see social domination which can lead to death, but this is part of who gets to pass their genes on to the next generation and provide a social structure.

We as humans are subject to the same pressures, however that can be mitigated by our intellect. I don't have to want to kill Muslims. I don't have to define them as being external to the values I embrace and therefore a threat, but we do go through this process. Murderers are "not us", ISIS is "not us" and we are far more likely to take action against them.

"We kill" but with selectivity in most cases, making assessments of others and acting on how we value things and people.

The problem is that being of 1 religion inherently means those not of the same religion are they and not we.

Its explicitly laid out in many religions that people outside are they. If you adhere to one of those religions, then its blasphemy to say they are a we. Its why cohesive societies have so many secular laws. If those societies had religious laws, you get a theocracy.

 

[realibrad]

I agree with his point. However, if he was asked that question once or maybe twice I might believe him. But I highly doubt that he gets asked that question "all the time". I strongly suspect that he lies all he wants as well.

I have seen many interviews with him on that topic, and he seems pretty consistent.

 

[Darwin333]

Let me clear this up:

Previous poster said this guy was an atheist who killed, so killing agreed with his morals.
You countered that point was incorrect because Christians murdered too and killing doesn't agree with their morals.

You point was that killing is/should be against anyone's morals and wasn't meant to say that the majority of murderers are Christian?

A little long, most killers in the US are Christians because most people in the US are Christian.

 

[rudeguy]

I have seen many interviews with him on that topic, and he seems pretty consistent.

Then someone may want to tell him that he is indirectly quoting 2 Corinthians 3:3-3.

 

[rudeguy]

A little long, most killers in the US are Christians because most people in the US are Christian.

OK

That you do need to back up with some numbers. That is quite a large logic jump.

 

[Darwin333]

I agree with his point. However, if he was asked that question once or maybe twice I might believe him. But I highly doubt that he gets asked that question "all the time". I strongly suspect that he lies all he wants as well.

He's a pretty well known atheist and very outspoken on the issue, I can imagine that since he talks about it so much and he has a much larger audience than the rest of us that he often gets questions on the subject the rest of us normally wouldn't.