**thread name change* Nvidia and AMD moral and immoral business practices

[Keysplayr]

Not all of us are hardware agnostic with video cards, due to nV's policies and tactics over the years. Some of us are even still miffed over their blatant lies during the Fermi debacle. Fact: all of us are swayed in our buying decisions and our experiences shape our choices. Somehow you feel that being a robot and ignoring how we feel makes us better consumers, but the reality is that without that discernment we're not much more than cracked up mice hammering a pellet dispenser.

You're in deep with them, I can understand that. They give you stuff, tell you inside info, and you feel connected with them. Others of us aren't and we don't care for Green's business practices and how they try forcing proprietary standards down the public's throat. In many ways nVidia's a lot like Apple, arrogant bastards who feel that anything they pinch out will be embraced and loved by the adoring masses. Not that AMD/ATi have always acted like saints, but many feel that they're the lesser of the two evils.

So, you've just basically told me that you buy with your heart and not with your brain. Is that the right thing to do? Or the smart thing to do?
And I like Nvidia for their "products". Hardware, software, Dev relations. Not because of what I think of the company. Although they are VERY driven and I do like how Nvidia continually pushes and never ceases. Always have something to show that is new.

 

[Keysplayr]

@ Keys and Magic,
Please dont turn this thread into a personal mud slinging contest.
Thanks, op

I wasn't, and don't intend to Happy. :thumbsup:

 

[Seero]

So, you've just basically told me that you buy with your heart and not with your brain. Is that the right thing to do? Or the smart thing to do?
And I like Nvidia for their "products". Hardware, software, Dev relations. Not because of what I think of the company. Although they are VERY driven and I do like how Nvidia continually pushes and never ceases. Always have something to show that is new.

I think ATI will make a lot of money if they start selling stickers. Can you imagine how cool will it be if there is a ATI logo right at the hood of my car? How about a ATI tattoo at my back? Not at my shoulder but the entire back. Nvidia suck btw as there are too many characters.

I said it first, you guys own me money if you use my idea!

 

[Grooveriding]

What washed out effect are you talking about? Can you expand?

Colours are just not as vibrant as they are in normal usage.

The best example I can give is when you turn your contrast up too high and colours lose their 'punch'.

 

[Grooveriding]

I think that's already been pointed out. Many don't care for PhysX, myself included, and that a proprietary standard like that locks out competition. Personally, I'm still irritated over the Fermi misfire and the blatant lies from the company itself. Huang holding up the faux Fermi at that press conference and declaring that the launch was imminent. I don't know, during that very long wait between the lie and the launch I stopped being a Green fan and decided to buy 5800 cards.

Exactly like this, it's almost certain that NV and their marketing team will be lying about cards coming out 'soon' to compete with the 6 series in a bid to keep buyers waiting like they did with Fermi against the 5 series.

Doubtful it will work, they had little success with that with the Fermi launch and it will be the same with the 6 series. Particularly in the high end, the people who buy flaghship cards don't wait.

When there is a new card that is faster than anything else, they buy it, when it comes out.

 

[Grooveriding]

If owning a NVIDIA cards gives me more features in games, the choice is simple.
I won't reward AMD for doing nothing.

Well then enjoy having a couple useless features while AMD buyers have faster framerates. If you think that is worth it, enjoy.

 

[n0x1ous]

Exactly like this, it's almost certain that NV and their marketing team will be lying about cards coming out 'soon' to compete with the 6 series in a bid to keep buyers waiting like they did with Fermi against the 5 series.

Doubtful it will work, they had little success with that with the Fermi launch and it will be the same with the 6 series. Particularly in the high end, the people who buy flaghship cards don't wait.

When there is a new card that is faster than anything else, they buy it, when it comes out.

Groove, should the companies say nothing until the product is released? AMD has been leaking info about their GPU's for months. AMD has been talking about fusion for years...bulldozer talk all the time....AMD does the same thing in the GPU market as well when they are behind and or late.

 

[Grooveriding]

Groove, should the companies say nothing until the product is released? AMD has been leaking info about their GPU's for months. AMD has been talking about fusion for years...bulldozer talk all the time....AMD does the same thing in the GPU market as well when they are behind and or late.

No doubt man, NV is trying to make money.

I just like being an educated consumer rather than a dictated to one.

 

[n0x1ous]

I get that NV has higher frames right now than AMD :thumbsup:

Well then enjoy having a couple useless features while AMD buyers have faster framerates. If you think that is worth it, enjoy.

I assume you mean after Cayman and not now? Ohterwise thats a little misleading.

 

[n0x1ous]

No doubt man, NV is trying to make money.

I just like being an educated consumer rather than a dictated to one.

And that is certainly a good thing to be an educated consumer. Just saying man, Nv isn't forcing you to wait and we all know you won't as long as Cayman delivers and thats cool man.

No worries....

 

[SirPauly]

. Others of us aren't and we don't care for Green's business practices and how they try forcing proprietary standards down the public's throat..

Proprietary usually is never the end-all-be-all to me and yes, there is division and fragmentation but what does it do?

Maybe, tries to raise the bar of innovation and choice, where there are no open standards yet?

Cuda is a perfect example of how proprietary has helped the industry move forward by now having standards take shape like OpenCL or Compute. Has helped make aware of the potential of what GPU Processing may do?

Proprietary may offer chaos, division and fragmentation -- no one I think is saying anything different but when it's just like that and the mind is closed is like talking to walls. Through the chaos, there may be innovation and choice, which hopefully creates awareness so open standards may be forged, evolve and mature.

The ball has to roll and sometimes it is proprietary that gets it started.

 

[happy medium]

I assume you mean after Cayman and not now? Ohterwise thats a little misleading.

Exactly like this, it's almost certain that NV and their marketing team will be lying about cards coming out 'soon' to compete with the 6 series in a bid to keep buyers waiting like they did with Fermi against the 5 series.

Doubtful it will work, they had little success with that with the Fermi launch and it will be the same with the 6 series. Particularly in the high end, the people who buy flaghship cards don't wait.

When there is a new card that is faster than anything else, they buy it, when it comes out.

Well then enjoy having a couple useless features while AMD buyers have faster framerates. If you think that is worth it, enjoy.

Groove, should the companies say nothing until the product is released? AMD has been leaking info about their GPU's for months. AMD has been talking about fusion for years...bulldozer talk all the time....AMD does the same thing in the GPU market as well when they are behind and or late.

No doubt man, NV is trying to make money.

I just like being an educated consumer rather than a dictated to one

And that is certainly a good thing to be an educated consumer. Just saying man, Nv isn't forcing you to wait and we all know you won't as long as Cayman delivers and thats cool man.

No worries....

Are you guys in the right thread?

This has NOTHING to do with Nvidia TWIMTBP program , and how it helps lessen console ports.
Did you even read the article I posted?

 

[n0x1ous]

TWIMTBP and/or console ports arent in the title.....I think this thread is a bit open based on the title, but I get what your saying....chill man

 

[happy medium]

TWIMTBP and/or console ports arent in the title.....I think this thread is a bit open based on the title, but I get what your saying....chill man

SO you crap and derail my thread after just registering last week, with 36 posts under your belt ,and you tell me to chill? :thumbsdown:

 

[golem]

For all the people complaining about Nvidia and proprietary standards, you do realize that DirectX is a proprietary standard right? It's just one that is owned by MS and not Nvidia or AMD.

Some of the open standards that would matter to gaming are Linux, OpenGL and OpenCL (I think that's an open standard, not sure) and to my knowledge AMD support for these standards is far below Nvidias.

 

[SirPauly]

Colours are just not as vibrant as they are in normal usage.

The best example I can give is when you turn your contrast up too high and colours lose their 'punch'.

The glasses darken a bit but, for me, still receive very nice color fidelity, subjective though, but the area I would like to see improve is CrossTalk artifacts and for 3d stereo hardware and software to evolve and mature.

 

[Lonbjerg]

Well then enjoy having a couple useless features while AMD buyers have faster framerates. If you think that is worth it, enjoy.

CUDA is hardly useless...why do you think AMD want OpenCL....to do the SAME thing.
PhysX is hardly useless...why do you think AMD want GPU Bullet...to do the SAME thing.
3D is hardly useless...why do you think AMD want 3D...to do the SAME thing.
APEX is hardly useless...CCP will use it in EVE Online...and it was used to great effect in Mafia 2.

So what you are saying is that AMD want these same features because they are useless? *LOL*

Nice own goal.
Next time don't use flawed personal views as facts.
It made you look foolish in the PhysX thread and you've just accomplished the same thing here.
Physics is the next big thing in gaming...like it or...bot Intel, AMD and NVIDIA is pursuing this "useless" thing, which makes your personal view not only false and flawed but also in stark contrast to reality.
Hardware compaines disagree...all across the board.
Software compaines disagree..and that makes your view isolated and irrelvant
But you did confirm my suspecions...that it's not about the technology, but soley vendor biased anti-party.

Job well done :thumbsup:

 

[T2k]

So, you've just basically told me that you buy with your heart and not with your brain. Is that the right thing to do? Or the smart thing to do?
And I like Nvidia for their "products". Hardware, software, Dev relations. Not because of what I think of the company. Although they are VERY driven and I do like how Nvidia continually pushes and never ceases. Always have something to show that is new.

Right, like the all-new wooden Tesla card, calling it a proto.

 

[happy medium]

Right, like the all-new wooden Tesla card, calling it a proto.

ahhhhh, I give up,

IDC?

 

[Lonbjerg]

For all the people complaining about Nvidia and proprietary standards, you do realize that DirectX is a proprietary standard right? It's just one that is owned by MS and not Nvidia or AMD.

Some of the open standards that would matter to gaming are Linux, OpenGL and OpenCL (I think that's an open standard, not sure) and to my knowledge AMD support for these standards is far below Nvidias.

It's not about being proprietary.
It's about being anti-NVIDIA.

Otherwise the same people would be screaming at DirectX for not working under Linux/OSX, but soley being for Microsoft OS'es.
And that should be just as "bad"...but again, that is not the case here.


But they don't and that shows the "agenda"...not based on "silly" things as facts, but vendor bias.

 

[T2k]

CUDA is hardly useless...why do you think AMD want OpenCL....to do the SAME thing.

AMD didn't want crap, it's simply responding to competitive bulletpoints and you can tell the size of the "CUDA market" by the fact that AMD easily overtook the entire discrete market without anything comparable...

...so much for being useful (and yes, we develop our own CUDA apps here.)

PhysX is hardly useless...why do you think AMD want GPU Bullet...to do the SAME thing.

Nonsense. Bullet is free, Havok isn't, that's all but ATI was always very Havok-friendly.

3D is hardly useless...why do you think AMD want 3D...to do the SAME thing.

WTF?

APEX is hardly useless...CCP will use it in EVE Online...and it was used to great effect in Mafia 2.

APEX is to push PhysX but just by itself it is useless, indeed.

So what you are saying is that AMD want these same features because they are useless? *LOL*

Nice own goal.
Next time don't use flawed personal views as facts.
It made you look foolish in the PhysX thread and you've just accomplished the same thing here.
Physics is the next big thing in gaming...like it or...bot Intel, AMD and NVIDIA is pursuing this "useless" thing, which makes your personal view not only false and flawed but also in stark contrast to reality.
Hardware compaines disagree...all across the board.
Software compaines disagree..and that makes your view isolated and irrelvant
But you did confirm my suspecions...that it's not about the technology, but soley vendor biased anti-party.

Job well done :thumbsup:

Physics, my... short on x86 license NV is fighting for survival, everybody knows this by now.

 

[T2k]

It's not about being proprietary.
It's about being anti-NVIDIA.

Otherwise the same people would be screaming at DirectX for not working under Linux/OSX, but soley being for Microsoft OS'es.
And that should be just as "bad"...but again, that is not the case here.


But they don't and that shows the "agenda"...not based on "silly" things as facts, but vendor bias.

There's nothing wrong with well-founded bias like anti-NV sentiments - it happens to be my personal opinion too that Nvidia, by default, is a company with no morals whatsoever and I believe this behavior stems from the top, from its founder.

 

[n0x1ous]

SO you crap and derail my thread after just registering last week, with 36 posts under your belt ,and you tell me to chill? :thumbsdown:

Sorry man, all I meant was to me it seemed like the posts were related. I'm not trying to ruffle any feathers. so yeah, I apologize...I'll try and keep it tighter to the topic.

 

[Red Storm]

It's not about being proprietary.
It's about being anti-NVIDIA.

Otherwise the same people would be screaming at DirectX for not working under Linux/OSX, but soley being for Microsoft OS'es.
And that should be just as "bad"...but again, that is not the case here.


But they don't and that shows the "agenda"...not based on "silly" things as facts, but vendor bias.

Because Linux and OSX are in heavy competition with MS for the PC gaming market, right?

When AMD or Nvidia own the vast majority of the video graphics market, you can maybe bring this argument back up. Right now it doesn't make much sense in relation to both the thread and AMD vs NV.

 

[happy medium]

Sorry man, all I meant was to me it seemed like the posts were related. I'm not trying to ruffle any feathers. so yeah, I apologize...I'll try and keep it tighter to the topic.

:thumbsup:
Thanks