Thoughts on the Nissan Leaf?

[RossMAN]

Went back to Honda today and took my wife with me to check out the Civic. She liked it so much she traded the Fit in for it on the spot - got an LX sedan with heated cloth seats (she doesn't like leather). Lots of nice features...traction control for the snow, backup camera (which is actually useful because of our huge babyseat in the line of sight when you turn around to backup), Bluetooth for the phone, MP3 jack, and 39 MPG. All for roughly the cost of a zero-down Leaf, but I still have my monthly gas bill instead of nearly-free electricity. But I can live with 39 MPG on regular gas & the ability to go anywhere I want without running out of battery juice. I'll take a look at another Leaf in 3 years when the Civic's lease is up. Now, what to do about the Kia Soul lease...haha.

Congrats on your wife's new Civic, 2012 or 2013? I hope it's the latter of the two.

 

[EagleKeeper]

The leasing company purchases the car, therefore they get the federal rebate. I don't see how you could ever take the federal rebate for leasing the car.

Straight from form 8936:

The following requirements must be met to qualify for
the credit:
• You are the owner of the vehicle. If the vehicle is leased,
only the lessor and not the lessee, is entitled to the credit

Typical conflicting government regulations

One hand does not know what the other is doing.

Taxpayer chooses.
a) they get the shaft
b) they get shafted
c) spend the $7500 on lube :biggrin:

 

[Kaido]

Congrats on your wife's new Civic, 2012 or 2013? I hope it's the latter of the two.

Thanks! It's a 2013 - even the dealership was badmouthing the 2012 model :biggrin: They had one in the showroom and they were like, don't even sit in it, you don't want this car haha. On the plus side, they put a ton of awesome features into the 2013 model - even the base model has everything. My wife likes fabric over leather and didn't want a sunroof, so there was no real change between models other than that, and they threw in the heated seats, which was cool. I don't really understand the point of doing in-dash navigation either, especially for the price, when $400 will buy you a top-of-the-line 5" Garmin GPS with lifetime map updates, a better interface, and better navigation.

I might just trade in the Kia for a clunker for my work vehicle. I'm like 3,000 over mileage right now and still have 4 months to go, so I don't really want to get whacked with a thousand dollars in fees. Plus it'd be nice to have a trip car that I can put miles on when I need to, although I vastly prefer leasing to buying for the convenience. At Honda, they'll take back whatever overmileage you have on your lease - we were also 3k over on the Fit, but they didn't care since we were getting another Honda. To go from 12k to 15k miles a year on a lease is about $15 a month more, so it's kinda-sorta worth paying the extra for if you need the extra miles, but if you do an early trade-in you can get the cheaper mileage package and not have to worry about it, so that's nice. That's an extra Philips LED bulb every month

I'm considering another Civic, but I'm going to give it a couple weeks and see how we like it - the Fit had a lot more headroom, but the Civic is about the same size otherwise inside. The Fit was a really great car (we both like compact/sub-compact cars), I'm going to miss it! I'm not interested in any other Kia's - had a blast with my Soul, but the blind spot kills me, so I don't want to buy it off-lease - there aren't any Mazdas that interest me (especially since the RX8 is gone), Toyotas are too small for me, VW's are really expensive (I do like the Jetta TDI but it's $$$ and I'd have to remember to get diesel haha), so probably either another Civic or an Altima (38 MPG and ridiculously awesome seats!). I still have 4 months to worry about it, so I'm not in any huge rush other than wanting to dump it out before lease-end to avoid the over-mileage fee, but there's always nice trade-in options for that...

 

[Kaido]

Nissan made a good counter-offer on the Civic today...I could get into an Altima for about what I would do the Civic for. We don't have to do the final lease signing on the Civic until next week, so I'm not on the hook for anything quite yet...so I may go the Altima route instead, for the price - although my wife really likes the Civic. I'd prefer the bigger Altima however, and she hasn't driven it yet. Hmm.

And to be honest, I'm still interested in the Leaf...it's not the best idea in the world, but it really appeals to my geeky side. Nissan did tell me that a lot of leased Leafs are being charged 100% by 120V. It can take 9 to 12 hours for a full charge, but that's doable for my schedule. And if I could talk my workplace into letting me charge up, I'd get a full charge every day and every night. Doable. Or just scratch the whole thing and wait for 4 more months and see where things are at then :awe:

 

[AdamK47]

My thoughts: Dirty hippy smugmatude

 

[Kaido]

My thoughts: Dirty hippy smugmatude

Haha, yeah. Although I'd like to think electric cars would be thought of as cooler than Priuses :biggrin: (Prii?)

 

[EagleKeeper]

Link

Article regarding issues/problems that Norway is having w/ respect to electrics.

Pretty much confirms a lot of statements within this thread

 

[Kaido]

Link

Article regarding issues/problems that Norway is having w/ respect to electrics.

Pretty much confirms a lot of statements within this thread

Yeah, and they just had a big article about poor Leaf sales:

http://www.digitaltrends.com/cars/h...sales-fail-to-reach-half-the-projected-goals/

I think the Leaf is almost perfect...right now the price is great, the features are nice, but the biggest thing it's missing is range...if they could hit the 200-mile range mark for the current price, I could foresee them selling a lot more of them. And secondly, cheap fast-chargers and publicly-available fast chargers. If they bundled a fast charger in with the car at its current price instead of $10,000 extra, and if I could charge up at, say, restaurants or the mall, that would be the killer combo for me to make the jump to an all-electric car.

I could make it work right now, but I'd just be worried about unexpected driving - road work that requires alternate routes, medical emergencies, or just errands where you don't want to think about the range would all be a hassle. 55 to 75 miles is just a bit too tight...200 miles is better, and having quick-charge stations readily available would seal the deal. So I think the next generation or two should start seeing an uptick in sales, especially as we put more chargers on the grid.

 

[thomsbrain]

I own stock in Honda, so thanks for giving them that free lightly used Fit that they will sell in two days for $14,000.

 

[skyking]

The Leaf would work for my wife's commute. We are looking at it.
She has a 43 mile round trip, about half at freeway speed and the other half at the perfect 40~45 MPH for electrics. I can keep it warm for the trip out, and it is the Puget Sound area so not really that cold here.

 

[Kaido]

I own stock in Honda, so thanks for giving them that free lightly used Fit that they will sell in two days for $14,000.

You're welcome - my lease total was under $9k over 3 years with nothing down & no disposition fee, so it was win/win :thumbsup:

It was a really fun car - a lot zippier than the new Civic, despite being 117 HP. Loved the headroom & space functionality. However, I wanted a 5-star safety rated car (Fit is only 4, Civic is 5) since we're planning on kiddo #2 and didn't want a van/SUV, plus the new Fit only gets 33 MPG and the Civic gets 39 MPG. Honda cars have really grown on me...didn't ever see them in my family, but my wife said she always wants at least one Honda in our stable after having the Fit!

 

[Kaido]

The Leaf would work for my wife's commute. We are looking at it.
She has a 43 mile round trip, about half at freeway speed and the other half at the perfect 40~45 MPH for electrics. I can keep it warm for the trip out, and it is the Puget Sound area so not really that cold here.

Can she charge at work by any chance?

 

[skyking]

Can she charge at work by any chance?

uncertain.

 

[Kaido]

Volkswagen shows production E-Up! with 93-mile range and AC/DC charging:

http://www.engadget.com/2013/03/15/volkswagen-shows-production-e-up-with-93-mile-range-and-ac-dc-c/

Remember the Volkswagen's E-Up! concept from 2009? The company just announced that it plans to launch a production version of the tiny EV at the Frankfurt Motor Show this fall. It's been tweaked a little since we last saw it, with proper seating for four (vs. 3+1 on the concept), a revised snout and updated wheels. Under the hood you'll find an 18.7kWh lithium-ion battery pack and a 60kW electric motor which provide a range of 150km (93 miles) with a respectable top speed of 84mph and a leisurely 0-62mph time of 14 seconds. The car supports quick-charging to 80% capacity in just 30 minutes via DC but also handles traditional AC circuits thanks to a Combined Charging System. The E-Up! will join the existing Up! and Eco-Up! (natural gas) models in Volkswagen's lineup, but it's unclear if the company plans to bring the EV to the US. Hit the source link below for the full PR and some additional photos.

Well that's getting better...a 93-mile range is a decent jump from the Leaf's advertise 75-mile range...

 

[Doppel]

Volkswagen shows production E-Up! with 93-mile range and AC/DC charging:

http://www.engadget.com/2013/03/15/volkswagen-shows-production-e-up-with-93-mile-range-and-ac-dc-c/



Well that's getting better...a 93-mile range is a decent jump from the Leaf's advertise 75-mile range...

Remember Nissan advertises 100 though--it depends the cycle used when testing. That VW battery is smaller than the leaf's and in practice we see that most evs get fairly similar economy. I conclude that there is no way that VW will get an EPA range of 93 vs Nissan's 73; at best it gets one the same IMO.

 

[EagleKeeper]

Remember Nissan advertises 100 though--it depends the cycle used when testing. That VW battery is smaller than the leaf's and in practice we see that most evs get fairly similar economy. I conclude that there is no way that VW will get an EPA range of 93 vs Nissan's 73; at best it gets one the same IMO.

From my talk with Nissan back in '11; the extra 20 miles comes from capturing energy via regenerative braking, etc.

I suspect that Nissan can not/will not state that buffer; while VW is using such.
Heck of a coincidence if that is so with the two numbers.

 

[Vdubchaos]

Remember Nissan advertises 100 though--it depends the cycle used when testing. That VW battery is smaller than the leaf's and in practice we see that most evs get fairly similar economy. I conclude that there is no way that VW will get an EPA range of 93 vs Nissan's 73; at best it gets one the same IMO.

EPA range/milage are ALL estimates and should be treated as such

Your mileage will vary....GREATLY

 

[Kaido]

Remember Nissan advertises 100 though--it depends the cycle used when testing. That VW battery is smaller than the leaf's and in practice we see that most evs get fairly similar economy. I conclude that there is no way that VW will get an EPA range of 93 vs Nissan's 73; at best it gets one the same IMO.

Yeah, I'll stick with the EPA range, so we'll see what they say about the VW. I really like the idea of an electric car, but right now I think I'd only do it as like a third car (but what's the point of a third car if you're trying to save money on gas? lol).

I think I'd definitely bite when these puppies hit a 200 mile range. Although the upcoming electric 100-mile range Delorean is awfully tempting :hmm:

 

[Vic Vega]

Some of the employers around me (technology companies) have been installing electric charging stations in their parking lots for their employees...

If my employer were to do this an inexpensive electric car would be on my list. I am fewer than ten miles from the office. Drive there and back five days a week and charge at work for free? Sign me up.

Being able to "drive for free" is really the only draw for electrics to me and at some point that will most certainly end. If I had to charge it myself I would just as well have a gasoline or diesel powered vehicle.

 

[Kaido]

When I was picking up the Civic today at the Honda dealership, they were whizzing around the parking lot in the new Honda Fit EV - VERY cool! I love the Fit to death and seeing the electric model was pretty neat. It gets 82 MPG combined per the EPA and apparently only comes in blue, which is a great color on the Fit. The EV was going to be a showroom model only for now at my dealership (they wouldn't give it to me, I tried!), with leasable models coming soon.

The biggest downside is that it is 240V only (using the fairly standard J1772 plug), so you can't just plug it into a 120V jack and charge it up like the Leaf. Bummer. Also, because it is in its initial rollout phase, it's only available as a 3-year lease for $389 a month. Ouch. The Leaf is $2k down, $199 month for the 3-year lease, or probably around $260 a month without a down payment. The Fit is a much more versatile car (fold-flat seats, as well as fold-up seats - tons of cargo room for the size & lots of headroom for humans), but for over $100 more per month without the ability to plug into a standard wall jack and for only 8 miles more of range...meh. I'll wait for gen2 or gen3 Very cool progress tho!

 

[Doppel]

Being able to "drive for free" is really the only draw for electrics to me and at some point that will most certainly end. If I had to charge it myself I would just as well have a gasoline or diesel powered vehicle.

Charge at work is definitely nice but these things are so damn cheap to energize even on your own dime. If you're paying $.11 kWh--a US average price and driving 12k/year your monthly cost in fuel is around $40/month. Even a Prius is $90/month if gas is $4/gallon. I'm using a bit worse than EPA estimate on both Leaf and Prius for those figures, deliberately.

The Fit is a much more versatile car

Not sure about that. The Leaf seats fold down. Maybe not "flat", but I bet the total interior room is superior; it is technically a mid-size. I am not familiar with the Fit EV because I think it, like the Rav4 EV is really just there to satisfy some silly federal laws--not a serious car that Honda plans on selling a lot of (similar to focus ev).

 

[Kaido]

The Leaf seats fold down. Maybe not "flat", but I bet the total interior room is superior; it is technically a mid-size. I am not familiar with the Fit EV because I think it, like the Rav4 EV is really just there to satisfy some silly federal laws--not a serious car that Honda plans on selling a lot of (similar to focus ev).

Yah, that was one of the things I checked out on my first visit to Nissan. The Fit definitely felt roomier in that regard. But my Soul has 20 more cubic feet the the Fit did, and the Fit was a lot "bigger" because of the layout, headroom, and magic-seat functionality. If the Fit EV had a 120V charger and I could choose between the two, I'd definitely go with the Fit.

 

[Kaido]

Checked out my buddy's Leaf today, it's super nice, sort of like a more sporty Versa hatchback. He got a black one, looks great in person! He is fortunate in that both of his workplaces have 240V chargers. He uses about 70% of his range driving to his main worksite, but thanks to the L2 chargers, it only takes about 2 hours to top off, so he can buzz between sites and home without an issue.

In other news, the US just topped 100k plug-in vehicles sold:

https://twitter.com/Lebeaucarnews/status/342675659052679168/photo/1

 

[phucheneh]

By 'more sporty' Versa...you mean 'less sporty,' right?

Not that either is particularly so...but c'mon...

 

[Kaido]

By 'more sporty' Versa...you mean 'less sporty,' right?

Not that either is particularly so...but c'mon...

I meant visually:

http://www.blogcdn.com/green.autoblog.com/media/2013/01/2013-nissan-leaf-01-628-1357743465.jpg

http://electriccarsreport.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/2013-Nissan-LEAF_2.jpg

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-05rX_PSQt...U/zrEi6qTG5RY/s640/fr_607_size640+%281%29.jpg